Cheap saws that became money pits

Treestuff
Advertise with us
Shop deals on ebay
Arborist Forum

Help Support Arborist Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Echo certainly isn't anything like Stihl. You can buy practically anything for most models of Stihl saws, in fact you can build a complete MS250 or MS290 from parts. I've pretty much done that but I did start with the outer case. It's cheaper than buying a new Stihl but more expensive than buying a used one. I haven't dealt much with the pro versions of Stihl but I heard you can buy a complete AM 660 now.
 
Chris J. said:
Carl, sorry to hear that, but it does make me feel better that I'm not the only one who got caught up in the Echo repair cost vortex :eek: :mad:. The only good news is I can use the CS-440 b&c on some of my other saws, and I might get my money back selling it as a parts saw, or maybe see a small profit parting it out.

The extent of the damage to the CS-440 didn't surprise me, the surprises came when I tried to track down a good used P&C, or a parts saw with a good P&C. I tried several local Echo dealers, none would even discuss selling me used parts. I tried eBay with no luck; I had no luck here here on AS. Then I found out that Echo only sells the complete engine (note--someone here on AS posted that the P & C could be purchased without buying the entire engine, but that was not what I read and heard). To add to the frustration...apparently the CS-520 P&C is a direct bolt-on, but those are equally difficult to find used and even more expensive new.

I apologize for the hijack.
Click to expand...
This is good information to know, and probably not something that many are aware of. I am very intrigued by the 60cc offerings from Echo and even though my current fleet is well covered in that area (and soon to be even more well covered) I have considered picking one up due to many exceptional deals on both the pro saws and the 590. But maybe not after finding this out.
 
svk said:
This is good information to know, and probably not something that many are aware of. I am very intrigued by the 60cc offerings from Echo and even though my current fleet is well covered in that area (and soon to be even more well covered) I have considered picking one up due to many exceptional deals on both the pro saws and the 590. But maybe not after finding this out.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry too much about buying a new Echo, or a used one in good mechanical condition. Even after my experience with the CS-440 I came very close to buying NIB CS-590, but I happened to find a low hours Makita DCS6421 for about the same price (CS-590 = $200.00 + two hours driving, DCS6421 = $230.00 + I was already in the pawn shop checking out guitars).

I don't think that the engine in CS-440 got toasted through normal use. The brake band was the giveaway, IMO. From what I can tell somebody ran the saw with the brake engaged, and just kept revving it ("Hey, this saw doesn't work right!"). They burned through brake band and fried the top end, and it could also have clutch issues for all I know.
 
In my opinion , Echo's of both the homeowner(clamshell) and pro(mag cases) versions are built just as well as the other top 2 brands. The older Echos are really better than the competitors. The fit and finish is better and Stihl/husky only dreams of painting a saw like Echo. If you build a Stihl from AM Chinese parts, you don't have a Stihl. You may just as well bought a $200 Chinese knockoff and saved yourself some time. If you buy a running Echo, you are assured that it has OEM parts because there is no aftermarket. Echo Oem pistons and cylinders are priced the same as the other 2 and you can expect the same attention to quality and detail. When you buy a used MS 290 and pay the Stihl premium for the cream sickle color only to find that the previous owner stuck a $69 Chicom top end on it, doesn't it make you mad? Me, I'm glad there is no aftermarket for Echo.
 
cedarshark said:
In my opinion , Echo's of both the homeowner(clamshell) and pro(mag cases) versions are built just as well as the other top 2 brands. The older Echos are really better than the competitors. The fit and finish is better and Stihl/husky only dreams of painting a saw like Echo. If you build a Stihl from AM Chinese parts, you don't have a Stihl. You may just as well bought a $200 Chinese knockoff and saved yourself some time. If you buy a running Echo, you are assured that it has OEM parts because there is no aftermarket. Echo Oem pistons and cylinders are priced the same as the other 2 and you can expect the same attention to quality and detail. When you buy a used MS 290 and pay the Stihl premium for the cream sickle color only to find that the previous owner stuck a $69 Chicom top end on it, doesn't it make you mad? Me, I'm glad there is no aftermarket for Echo.
Click to expand...
I agree with you for the most part. When you buy an aftermarket Stihl part you are getting the Stihl design because the Chinese copied it. You may be getting cheaper materials however..
 
ANewSawyer said:
I am wanting a used makita Makita DCS6421 to turn into a 70+cc money pit...
Click to expand...

My DCS6421 is Home Depot rental saw that wound in a pawn shop. Do the Home Depot stores in your area rent out the DCS6421? You might find a runner for a really good price, or since they are rentals, you might find one with a toasted top end for a ridiculously low price. Maybe buddy up to a couple rental dept manangers?

I'll admit to making a mistake,

or maybe I avoided a money pit.

Back when Makita first started selling Dolmar saws rebadged as Makita, I came across two Makita saws in the same pawn shop, a 7901 (definitely) and a 6401 (I think, can't recall for certain). Both appeared to be low hours, but neither had compression (maybe straight gassed soon after they were purchased?). They were priced low to sell, and the shop was running a Buy One, Get The Second One Half Off special. The thing was at that time Dolmar was still pretty much an 'obscure' brand in the US (at least to me, other than what I read here at AS).

I might've wound up with two saws well worth repairing, or two saws that left me up $idedown.
 
How I avoid having a saw eat my lunch is as follows:
1. When buying a saw, there are only two kinds. Running saws and parts saws. If a saw doesn't run, I will not pay more for it than what I know I can sell the parts for.
2. Saws that aren't complete are rarely worth fixing unless you have other donor saws of the same model. I would much rather acquire blown up complete saws than ones that are not only not running but missing parts. Those smalls can take a lot of bites out of your sandwich.
3. Aftermarket parts available? OEM stuff will eat your entire lunch in no time at all.
4. Don't attempt to fix saws that have poor affordable parts support. (I almost always part out Echo saws)
5. Don't fix up saws that have little resale value. (ie, Mac 10-10, etc)

Caveat: If you are fixing up a saw that has sentimental value or one you intend to use for a long time, some of the above may not apply. I have fixed up a number of cheapo saws just for recreation but have been doing less and less of that...
 
fearofpavement said:
How I avoid having a saw eat my lunch is as follows:
1. When buying a saw, there are only two kinds. Running saws and parts saws. If a saw doesn't run, I will not pay more for it than what I know I can sell the parts for.
2. Saws that aren't complete are rarely worth fixing unless you have other donor saws of the same model. I would much rather acquire blown up complete saws than ones that are not only not running but missing parts. Those smalls can take a lot of bites out of your sandwich.
3. Aftermarket parts available? OEM stuff will eat your entire lunch in no time at all.
4. Don't attempt to fix saws that have poor affordable parts support. (I almost always part out Echo saws)
5. Don't fix up saws that have little resale value. (ie, Mac 10-10, etc)

Caveat: If you are fixing up a saw that has sentimental value or one you intend to use for a long time, some of the above may not apply. I have fixed up a number of cheapo saws just for recreation but have been doing less and less of that...
Click to expand...

Those are excellent guidelines for avoiding Money Pit saws.

I'll add a couple:

1. Very few small saws have worthwhile resale value. A Stihl MS 200T is the only one I can think of that might be worth putting any real $$ into, and even then it would depend on how much $$.

2. Be careful buying the older "iconic" saws just because you really want one....unless you get a really great deal, and/or already have one one or more for parts. Most chainsaw addicts would love to have a Stihl 090, a Mac 125, a Disston DA-211, etc. Which is fine, but parts can get expensive and tracking them down very time consuming.

Mentioning iconic saws and money pits......a lesson learned the hard way:
I have a Disston DA-211 from eBay. Which means I paid shipping. It is incomplete and both pistons are stuck, and I do mean stuck. I also won another eBay auction for some rare parts (at least shipping wasn't too bad for them). All said I have around $225.00 in a very incomplete saw with stuck pistons. About the only way this saw won't become a major money pit is if I find--locally--a complete DA-211 with good pistons for a good price. The chances of that happening are slim to none. I was determined to get a DA-211; lesson learned.
 
I bought a running Stihl 046 PHO for $450.00 thinking I'll get it going on the cheap; overall cost after OEM parts replacement was close to $900.00. I replaced: clutch, drum and sprocket, all new rubber and seals, updated air filter, 25" bar & chain, rebuilt carb, HO oil pump, dual dogs, 3/4 wrap handle; misc bolts, screws & small parts. The good part was that I learned how to work on saws and it started me on CAD -and an expanding fleet of saws; I guess that experience is priceless. Buying a new, or close to new saw would have been the better route.
 
I used to fix up quite a few of the Poulan 2000 series. Pick em up for about $5.00. Then they always need fuel lines and usually carb work. New air filter because the other ones turn to dust, sharpen or replace chain, maybe replace the bar because the OEM ones were junk, Anyway, I usually would have about $35 cash into a saw that sells for $45 to $50.00. That's about a buck or so per hour. If I wasn't doing it as a hobby/sport, it certainly wouldn't be worth it. I can refurb a Stihl with about the same time investment and maybe clear $100 on it if all goes well.
Saws I have a lot of money in, I just use myself to make them pay.
The only saw I actually lost money on was a Wild Thing that I got lied to about when I purchased it. One of those broken rope things but the saw runs good stories... It was scored to the point of non running. I sold it for parts, kept the case and figured it all turned out ok... Lesson learned...
 
When I buy a "pile" of saws, I allocate a cost to each one even if I paid one money for the heap. That helps me keep track of where I am on them. Flipping saws is a hobby and not a business for me but I do track expenses in addition to purchases and sales on a spreadsheet. Becomes sort of a diary for my hobby. I've spent about $16,000 over the years on buying saws and parts and have sold about $16,000 worth of saws. So I figure that my "net profit" after all those years are the saws I currently have. Now granted, my records aren't as precise as they would be for a business and I ballpark guess on the money invested in a saw sometimes as I don't open a work order and write down each little part I put in it. I've done enough of them over the years that I pretty much know how much it costs to refurb a particular model saw. For example, an 1127 series Stihl usually requires an investment of about $150 to put it in good condition. (plus what I paid for the saw in the first place). I have a pile of these disassembled and waiting to rebuild but am short on certain parts. Like wrap handles for instance. I can buy these aftermarket for about $25 or so but that additional cost can take out all the margin, so I just wait for another parts saw to come along... I also have a large inventory of new chains, bars, and saw parts that I haven't really included on my spreadsheet unless I install them on a saw. So if I count what I spent on my inventory I'm still a few thousand dollars in the red... Oh well...
 

Similar threads

C
Jonsered 2165 WILL NOT start
Replies
17
Views
826
chunez
C
Jasonrkba
Husky 350 carb
Replies
0
Views
339
Jasonrkba
Jasonrkba
N
Husky 55 with 028 piston
Replies
8
Views
645
Nitris223
N
ace4059
Possible new bad gas. What should I do?
6 7 8
Replies
154
Views
5K
Khntr85
Khntr85
R
Fun story: Stihl 026 won't run with wrong carb
Replies
4
Views
277
Chevboy0167
Chevboy0167

Latest posts

Back
Top