gregfox
ArboristSite Operative
My stove has a lower primary intake which works great with the damper but I see why it wouldn't work if your air is coming from the top
Chimney Damper
- Thread starter TJ-Bill
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We bit of an update for everyone..
The damper had helped by increasing my burn times.. BUT!!! As Whitespider has said the coals are still an issue!!
It's been freaking cold here as many other places.. I'm lucky enough to have some here all day looking after the kids that is will to semi keep the fire up.. If this wasn't the case that stove would not heat my house. I've come home the last few days sand spent 2-3 hrs just pulling the coals forward so the air can hit them and it does make a difference. After the coals are some what down I load it up for the night I load it up.
I'm going to bring home my IR heat sensor and do a couple tests on the stove. I see longer burn times but I'm not sure if I'm getting more heat from the stove?
My stove is a newer model with a bottom air intake.. I'm wondering it I can't change it make the holes in the stove larger and put a control on the intake on the bottom of the stove??
The damper had helped by increasing my burn times.. BUT!!! As Whitespider has said the coals are still an issue!!
It's been freaking cold here as many other places.. I'm lucky enough to have some here all day looking after the kids that is will to semi keep the fire up.. If this wasn't the case that stove would not heat my house. I've come home the last few days sand spent 2-3 hrs just pulling the coals forward so the air can hit them and it does make a difference. After the coals are some what down I load it up for the night I load it up.
I'm going to bring home my IR heat sensor and do a couple tests on the stove. I see longer burn times but I'm not sure if I'm getting more heat from the stove?
My stove is a newer model with a bottom air intake.. I'm wondering it I can't change it make the holes in the stove larger and put a control on the intake on the bottom of the stove??
AndrewGeib
ArboristSite Operative
What is a good tem to maintain? My thermometer sits in top of stove and I always worry about over firing it
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ok everybody bow down to whitespider.:msp_scared: I got to say he's a smart fella and has a lot of good points. I don't agree with everything he post's though. First of all I don't dare call BS on anybodys post. I have an epa stove and love it. I can get lots of heat out of my stove,get great burn times,and can get rid of the coal bed rather quickly with nice heat output. My stove has the main air intake at the airwash and a couple holes in the bottom front. My stove also has a start up air controll that lets air in at the bottom front and four large holes at the bottom back. I use the start up to manage the coals. I also use just start up intake to allow a little air come in at the back and a little in the front to get a nice even burn.
So I really like my epa stove and I haven't done anything to modify it. I'm not saying it's the best and everyone should have one but I'm saying not all epa stoves are bad. My chimney gets cleaned once a year and I'm sure I could get away with cleaning it every three years with the half a handfull of fly ash I get out of the chimney. I'm not a tree hugger and hate how the government keeps poking there business in our lives but I like my clean stove and hate when my neighbors smoke dragon when it's billowing smoke all day toward my house. He's getting really good at cleaning his chimney also. Five gallon bucket full of creosote sometimes. Hmmmm would I go for a epa stove again? Hell yea!
So I really like my epa stove and I haven't done anything to modify it. I'm not saying it's the best and everyone should have one but I'm saying not all epa stoves are bad. My chimney gets cleaned once a year and I'm sure I could get away with cleaning it every three years with the half a handfull of fly ash I get out of the chimney. I'm not a tree hugger and hate how the government keeps poking there business in our lives but I like my clean stove and hate when my neighbors smoke dragon when it's billowing smoke all day toward my house. He's getting really good at cleaning his chimney also. Five gallon bucket full of creosote sometimes. Hmmmm would I go for a epa stove again? Hell yea!
chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
My stove has hit 700 on top before but most of the time I keep it at 500. I had a leaky cast stove that scared the sh#t out of me when I reached 800. It never damaged it but I gave that stove back and got my current stove under warranty.
AndrewGeib
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah haven't hit 700 yet thank god but I do try to maintain 600 when it's been as cold as its been
i have to agree with you, i have almost not problem with coal build up with my EPA stove and love it compaired to my old non EPA one. twice the heat outpu with about half the wood usage. saying that i know NOT all stove are equal and the same stove in a differant house will burn differantly.
the only time i do have a problem with coal build up is when i burn all good hardwood like locust or oak. the burn times are great (up to 12 hrs or so) but the coal bed can get to big. i like to keep some pine and cotton wood mixed in. i throw a few splits in with the throttle open and i get a quick fire to warm up and the coal bed goes way down.
I get a kick out of you guys living in the east, such as Pennsylvanian, and you guys living south of the Great Lakes, such as Indiana. Your comparisons are not apples-to-apples... we haven't seen temps much over around 15[sup]o[/sup] for over 10-days now, most of the day temps stay in the single digits, at least half of those days have started out well below zero, and the wind blows hard out'a the northwest across the open plains. We might just get a break on Saturday... they're sayin' we might even reach 20[sup]o[/sup] for an hour or two in the late afternoon.
I've already said it works "OK" when daytime high temps are in the mid-20's or so, but we ain't seen that for two weeks now... heck, we've only seen teens a handful of times. It's when it gets cold, damn cold, and stays that way for several days that this EPA technology falls flat... I'm looking at maybe 16[sup]o[/sup] best case for today, but it won't even hit 10[sup]o[/sup] until sometime after lunch and be back in single digits by 4:00 PM.
I've already said it works "OK" when daytime high temps are in the mid-20's or so, but we ain't seen that for two weeks now... heck, we've only seen teens a handful of times. It's when it gets cold, damn cold, and stays that way for several days that this EPA technology falls flat... I'm looking at maybe 16[sup]o[/sup] best case for today, but it won't even hit 10[sup]o[/sup] until sometime after lunch and be back in single digits by 4:00 PM.
I agree, I do not really have that problem with my secondary burn stove, and the colder it is out the better it works. It is certainly true that once the volatiles have been cooked out of the wood it is tougher to keep it burning hot and I generally open the air control some, or throw in something fresh to let it cook off. But with colder air and more draft the performance improves.
One thing to understand about your stove is where the air inlets are and what the air controls do - they are not all the same. Some controls limit only the primary air while the secondary air stays wide open, some limit both. My main stove is a cheap US Stoves Magnolia and the air control limits both, which I prefer.
Pay attention to how you load your wood. On my Magnolia the primary air comes down across the door as Spidy described and there are no air inlets at the bottom at all. So I stack the bottom logs end-on to the door. Then I make another row perpendicular to those, and sometimes a third row of narrow splits on top - each row perpendicular to the one below. That way the primary air flows underneath and keeps things hot below. If I stack the wood opposite to that with the bottom row blocking the airflow it burns poorly and is hard to start.
Yeah, well we wonder how you have such a hard time with it too. I'm trying to figure out why you think more draft makes it work worse - how more air flow could make a coaling problem worse.
Mostly I think you found what you expected to find when you put in this "EPA" stove that you didn't like.
It has warmed up to 14 now from 8 last night - should be 6 tonight. There were only enough nice hot coals in either of my dreaded "EPA" stoves this morning to make starting a new fire easy. I loaded each of them at 10:00 last night.
I'm really happy with my EPA stove vs the smoke dragon it replaced. I ran into issues with my old stove too as far as coals building up. What I do when it is cold (single digits for the past week) is rake the coals toward the front of the stove where the primary air comes in. I load the wood N/S on an angle with the wood near the front of the stove sitting on coals. The wood burns from front to back. When it burns down I repeat. If the coals are really building up then I place one large piece of wood directly on the coals and open the draft all the way. Larger splits help with over coaling as well. The stove seems happy running at a fairly high temperature (700 degrees) that helps keep the coals down.
I much prefer waking up to a bed of coals and a 70 degree house to waking up with almost nothing and a 55 degree house with the old stove.
I much prefer waking up to a bed of coals and a 70 degree house to waking up with almost nothing and a 55 degree house with the old stove.
It has warmed up to -1[sup]o[/sup] now from -7[sup]o[/sup] last night - not supposed to dip below zero tonight. I've been running my "stovace" wide open for the last few days (flue damper and draft both wide open) and there was still a lot of coals in it at 5:00 AM this morning... of course I loaded it last night at 5:30, 8:30, 11:00 and 3:00 AM. Loaded again at 5:00 AM when I got up, and again when I left for work at 8:00 AM... it was 69[sup]o[/sup] in the house when I left, and the fire box was over half full of coals so I could only fit three splits in it.
cmsmoke
ArboristSite Operative
Todays high 16...Last nights low 1. Sounds close enough to me!
Oh really? Let’s compare Johnstown, PA with my location for the month of January…
- Average High Temperature
You – 32
Me – 27 - Mean Average Temperature (basically accounts for how long it takes to warm-up, and how quickly it cools-off each day)
You – 27
Me – 18 - Average Low Temperature
You – 21
Me – 10 - Average Heating Degree Days (per day) (a measure of how much heat it takes to keep a building warm each day based on 65[sup]o[/sup] outside temperature equals one heating degree day)
You – 38
Me – 46 - Average Dew Point
You – 20
Me – 11 - Prevailing Wind Direction
You – WSW
Me – NNW
Average Wind Speed
You – 11 MPH
Me – 16 MPH
Yawn. I'm sure it's a bit colder in Iowa, which would mean you need more heat output - how is that relevant to the discussion of your being unable to get the stove to work properly? The temperature difference is not going to make that much difference in regard to the function of the stove.
cmsmoke
ArboristSite Operative
I did some research as well...
There are anomalies everywhere, maybe this is your month or year. We get them as well. If you use average low and high temperatures for our heating seasons and lets say October through March (6 months). The average low for Decorah, Iowa (which is about as far north east as I can find) during those months is 21. In Johnstown, Pa the average low is 24.8. That is 3.8 degrees difference. The highs are 44.8 and 40.8, respectively. I think it is safe to say that it averages 4 degrees colder in NE Iowa than in Johnstown, PA. IMO that would be apples to apples.
To be honest with you...I'm surprised you trust a thermometer or computer for for any information!
There are anomalies everywhere, maybe this is your month or year. We get them as well. If you use average low and high temperatures for our heating seasons and lets say October through March (6 months). The average low for Decorah, Iowa (which is about as far north east as I can find) during those months is 21. In Johnstown, Pa the average low is 24.8. That is 3.8 degrees difference. The highs are 44.8 and 40.8, respectively. I think it is safe to say that it averages 4 degrees colder in NE Iowa than in Johnstown, PA. IMO that would be apples to apples.
To be honest with you...I'm surprised you trust a thermometer or computer for for any information!
Are you serious??
Colder temps mean more wood, more often, to keep the stove temperature high enough to maintain the temperature of the space it is heating... if we had identical stoves, heating identical space, on average my stove would need to generate 21% more heat than yours at all times (because we're talking average). But in reality, during the colder parts of the day it could be as much as 40% more (maybe more depending on wind), especially as the cold snap lingers for days. And because our days warm-up slower, and cool down faster (because of the geography), I need the higher stove temperatures for a greater portion of the day.
More wood, more often, means more coal build-up at a faster rate... until there ain't any more space to add wood in the firebox, forcing the removal and tossing out of all that potential heat just to make room for more wood. During warmer periods those coals will provide enough heat to maintain heating space temperature IF you babysit the stove and keep stirring/raking the coals so air can get to them... but not when it's cold and remains that way for days. Not to mention the heat being wasted out the flue because the stove is running wide open (yeah I'm heating the whole house, but it's a small house and well under the square footage rating of the stove).
IF air came in under the coals burning on a grate (like every other wood-fired appliance I've ever had, seen or used) I could damp-down and those coals would remain screamin' hot for hours... I wouldn't need to stir coals every hour, or add more firewood every 2-3 hours when it's arctic cold... which just builds up the coal bed (which eventually gets wasted during real cold times).
The stove "functions" just as it is designed to do, it reduces emissions... the design just ain't worth a crap for serious heating. There ain't no free-lunch in this life; to gain something you must always give-up something. That's just the way it is, always has been, and always will be. This belief that combustion efficiency equals heating efficiency is pure propaganda. Like I've said before, my 4x4 V8 pickup will get 50 miles per gallon if I drive it 10 MPH!
Actually, I'm about 50 miles west of Decorah.
I don't give a crap about October, November, the first half of December, the last half of February or March... it ain't cold then (or rarely as cold, and it don't last more than a day or so when it is) and the stove does it's job... at least "OK" most of the time. Yeah, your fall and spring is cooler than ours, and you have cooler summers than we do. But what matters is when I need the ability to make heat, and lots of it. Mid-December through Mid-February is our coldest time, days and days of cold... and it's colder here by a considerable amount than what you see during that same time. Your temps are more "moderate", they don't change as drastically from the warm part of the year to the cool part of the year... you are cooler during warm season, and warmer during cool season so averaging the "year" comes out about the same I'm sure... but that ain't what we're talking about, we're talking about the coldest part of the year... get over-it already.
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chadihman
Addicted to ArboristSite
True spider man. But I'm pretty sure the smoke dragon does the same thing when burning in cold weather. Coal buildup is a bugger with either stove. My epa stove puts more heat out with the same amount of wood. So how can you bust on the epa stoves. Not all but most epa stoves are more efficient and leave almost no smoke or filthy chimneys that are dangerous.
