Chimney Fire Thread

[max2cam]

Anybody here ever have a chimney fire? I have not, but live in dread of one. I clean my chimney every year, burn dry wood, and hope for the best. My chimney is rock up to the upstairs peaked ceiling, then goes into a stainless steel insulated pipe at the ceiling then thru a little attic space, and then out the roof. I know the clay flue liner in the rock part is cracked and I wish it wasn't.

Of course prevention is the best cure, and of course if one does have a chimney fire, calling 911 is No. 1 priority. But for people living in remote areas what are the best ways to handle a chimney fire before the fire dept. gets there (or doesn't)?

I have thought that emptying a couple of fire extinguishers into the stove might carry up the pipe and put a chimney fire out, or am I dreaming?

Comments, ideas, and safety tips welcome...

 

[Festus Haggen]

I've had one, and seen many more as a firefighter. Burning dry, seasoned wood is the #1 way to prevent creosote buildup that leads to chimney fires. I invested in a stainless liner a few years ago, never regretted it for a second. The insulated liner keeps the flue gas temp high enough to keep creosote from condensing on the inside of the pipe. The liner is listed to be good in multiple fires, although I don't want to find out if it's true or not. The main danger of a chimney fire is that the hot gases/molten creosote will escape the containment of the chimney, thus igniting the building.

The company that used to make Chimfex/Chimflex "flares" closed after their building burned (weird, huh?). We have a case on the trucks of dry chem in ziploc bags that we drop down the chimney as a first step to extinguishing a fire. I've not seen that dry chem passes that far up the chimney in enough quantity to extinguish a real chimney fire. Cutting off as much oxygen as you can and trying to keep the building from catching is the main strategy.

I dumped a large commercial extinguisher into the stove when I had my fire, it mostly put out the fire in the stove but didn't touch the actual chimney fire. You will never forget the sound once you hear it. I had a weird spot in my chimney that didn't get cleaned well, that was the creosote that ignited, so my fire was mostly in the lower part of the chimney. Just sealed off the air (keep in mind that most EPA stoves CANNOT be easily 100% sealed off), got on the roof and dumped 5 pounds of dry chem down the flue. Took a bit, but I got it out. Most important thing to do is to get everyone out of the house and call 911, even if you think you can put it out.

The key to chimney fires is prevention. Dry seasoned wood and at least annual inspection/cleaning. Those two things will prevent nearly all chimney fires. Hope this helps.

 

[MNfarmer]

I had one last winter, but it was mostly my own fault. I knew the chimney needed cleaning but the day i looked up the chimney I didn't have time to do it. A couple days later I went to check the fire and when I opened the door the gasses caught on fire and went right up the pipe to the chimney. I was right there went it happened so I shot a fire extinguisher up the bottom of the chimney and put it out. Cleaned the chimney the next day and haven't had a problem since. This biggest key is keeping the chimney warm. My chimney is staying a lot warmer this year due to some stove modifications and the one time I cleaned the chimney I only got an ice cream pail or so of creosote. Dry wood and a hot fire will take care of the problem %99 percent of the time. Being a firefighter I've been to quite a few chimney fires where either the wood is green or the stove is choked way down and smoldering. Hope this helps.

I missed one of your questions.. as far as what you can do till the fire dept gets there is make sure everyone is out of the house. If it is still safe in the house and the fire hasn't spread either shoot a fire ex. in the stove or up the clean out door on the chimney (if there is one). If the fire has broke through the chimney and the house is on fire.. obviously get out and wait for the fire dept.

 

[Festus Haggen]

Being a firefighter I've been to quite a few chimney fires where either the wood is green or the stove is choked way down and smoldering.

+1

That's just about the way mine started, trying to get the fire going quickly, lots of air to allow the flames to get into the flue.

And the warm chimney is important- that's the purpose of a liner, especially an insulated one. It's also why a chimney on an outside wall is more dangerous, which doesn't make sense to some people until they understand how and why creosote forms.

 

[Grace Tree]

I had one in late fall. I'd inspected my flue at the end of summer and it was clean but when the the chimney was made they left a very large space under the flue thimble with lots of rough brick, block and other areas to catch whatever flaked off the flue liner and fell down. I couldn't see it from the top and couldn't reach it from the clean out door. It took me 15 minutes to get home when my wife called me and by the time I got there it was so hot I couldn't get it shut down so I had to call the local VFD. Three pieces of apparatus, an ambulance, two cop cars and every neighbor within a half mile area stand in my front lawn. They broke out the back of the chimney in my garage and got it put down and I put a stainless liner in and we were back up and running in a few days. I've been burning for 30 years and I've had a couple small chimney fires that I was able to handle myself but this one had junk rolling out the clean out door like a coke furnace. Really amazing how hot it got.
Regards,
Phil
http://users.adelphia.net/~plsmallwood/firedept.jpg

 

[Wood Scrounge]

I was just thinking about this.
When I was a kid I experienced a few chimney fires and was always amazed at the sound they make.
Creosote is the sticky stuff (?)What about the black powder soot? Is that risky as well? My chimneys are well insulated and the only sticky stuff is on the cap, the linear only get's black powder soot.
I clean the chimneys once a year and get about 3 pounds of soot out of each one. I was just wondering if I should add a mid winter cleaning as well.

 

[MNfarmer]

The powder is just dried sticky stuff and yes they both burn. If you have a way to check the chimney part way through the winter and it's ok, there probably isn't a need to clean it. Although it is better to be safe than sorry so if you want to clean it once, twice, three times a year or once a month it will give you peace of mind. If you don't clean it that often, at least check it to see what it's doing inside.

 

[Festus Haggen]

I clean the chimneys once a year and get about 3 pounds of soot out of each one. I was just wondering if I should add a mid winter cleaning as well.

3 pounds seems like a lot to me. My liner is 30 feet, I clean once a year and get maybe a small coffee can full if that.

Creosote has a very high ignition temperature, and burns well over 1,000 degrees once it gets going. The draft created by the burning just makes it a runaway process, turning your chimney into a blast furnace.

My cap also collects a lot, I go up and clean that maybe 3 times a season. It's not really a risk factor for a fire, though- it's just the coldest part of the chimney. I also learned when I first went to get the crud off the cap that a) creosote don't stick to stainless very well, b) you should NEVER bang on the cap with your hand to knock the creosote off, and c) even a little creosote can plug the liner when it all falls down inside the liner and collects in one spot. I now take a screwdriver up and remove the cap when cleaning it.

 

[046]

proof of the pudding is what creosote you find when you clean your chimney out. found almost no creosote after two seasons of using my wood insert.

like what others have said, key is a hot complete burn.
simply look at output of chimney after wood stove reaches operation temps.

a clean burning wood stove should put out little to NO smoke at operating temps.

 

[AngelofDarkness]

I check mine about once a month, the last time I looked at it I had a bit of dry sooty stuff in it, but not too bad. My chimney is short (only about 15 ft.) and perfectly vertical, and I burn hot (I am in town), even the half-green stuff burns clean and smoke free once it gets hot. Once a week or so I really let it rip and almost get the stove red hot, last week my chimney was smoking like crazy when I did this, burned some crap out of it this time!

I dont think creosote is as big of a problem with insulated stainless pipe as it is with masonry chimneys, the stainless gets hot and acts like a self-cleaning oven.

 

[Austin1]

I clean my chimney three times a year Just piece of mind for me, all I burn is Pine, Spruce and Poplar and very rarely Fir and Birch. I don't have the luxury of burning hard wood were I live unless I can get a City tree like a Ash or soft Maple.But then I flip my bars regularly and do oil changes every 5000km or 3000miles lol

 

[Wood Scrounge]

3 pounds seems like a lot to me. My liner is 30 feet, I clean once a year and get maybe a small coffee can full if that.

Creosote has a very high ignition temperature, and burns well over 1,000 degrees once it gets going. The draft created by the burning just makes it a runaway process, turning your chimney into a blast furnace.

My cap also collects a lot, I go up and clean that maybe 3 times a season. It's not really a risk factor for a fire, though- it's just the coldest part of the chimney. I also learned when I first went to get the crud off the cap that a) creosote don't stick to stainless very well, b) you should NEVER bang on the cap with your hand to knock the creosote off, and c) even a little creosote can plug the liner when it all falls down inside the liner and collects in one spot. I now take a screwdriver up and remove the cap when cleaning it.

3 pounds is what I collect after I swept it fills a plastic grocery bag about 1/4 of the way. I burn seasoned wood but it's running 24/7 I guess I will hit it again mid winter from now on.

 

[infomet]

I was a volunteer FF in RI in the 70's. We had several in old colonial houses. The most memorable was in an old Cape Cod over 200 years old. As the family drifted away, the house was not well cared for and various poor cousins and renters lived there, burning quite a bit of wood in the old granite fireplace about 6' wide and 5' high.

I heard the siren in th emiddle of the night and hopped into warm clothes for the 20F weather of the time. When we pulled up you could hear the roar, like a train in the distance, and see 6' of flames coming out the chimney.

Inside, pieces of hard burning tarry creosote were falliing down into the FP and threatening to spill out over the hearth onto the floor!

In the attic, fire was coming out of holes where the old mortar was gone and making torchlike shafts a foot long. Luckily, none were impinging on the wood structure.

We handled this dicey situation by soaking an old mattress and propping it in front of the FP with a piece of plywood, then very slowly misting some water into the top of the chimney. We also closed the top with a piece of sheet metal, once the big flames were down. In about a half hour the flames were down and the chimney just smoldering. Then we removed the mattress and shoveled at least a couple of bushels of smoldering creosote out of the FP. By then we could drop our chain with discs on it down the chimney and jerk it around to knock more of the creosote down.

I never went back onto the property and I don't know if te house is still there. We moved away in '81. It felt good to save what was potentially a nice and valuable old place. The only occupant was an old lady at least 80. I'm sure a lot of sorry wood had been burned there for many years!

Well, long story. That's about as bad as one could get, in my opinion!

Now I burn in a Buck 91. Not at all a stylish or popular stove, but an awesome heater. It handles 2700SF down to 20 easily. Above 45, it's hard to keep it slow enough. After three winters, the pipe is clean as far as I can see up it...never cleaned. I don't really see how I could have a dangerous fire. I have a heavy SS liner in a heavy masonry chimney and a perf metal cap. With the stove closed off, there is very little intake. Of course the fire will likely huff and puff some air in the top, but I don't see how it could do much harm.

When I open the door with several inches of coals and a few logs in the stove, it roars like a blast furnace. If anything were ready to burn, that would light it off. A fire like that is WAY too hot to work on. It will burn a hand in a few seconds. This happens when I want to crowd in a couple of logs to get ready for bed. I can EASILY have logs charred but not burned up 8-10 hrs later when I get up. I only wish I had made the fireplace waist high! In fact, I'd recommend building an opening for an insert and liner, with no fireplace at all. I don't think we'll ever use it. I'll also have a built in ash dump to the outside next time!

I burn mostly oak, but there is a lot of maple here and they are such a sorry tree that I can't avoid having quite a bit of it to burn. It's fine, but makes much more ash than oak, including a lot of very fluffy stuff that builds up quickly and tends to blow around when handled.

Well, are you still awake! I tried to make the story short. It was an unforgettable fire, and I saw quite a few old buildings go. As someone said, the roar is awesome! With about 30 SF of opening feeding right into about a two SF flue, she was really going!

 

[JBFab]

in addition to what others have posted, one trick that I have learned as a firefighter, is to soak a bunch of rags or towels in water and put them in the firebox, (if the fire is still going good) this will in turn create steam which can put the fire out until the fire dept gets there. DO NOT THROW WATER ON THE FIRE DIRECTLY, if you miss and hit the fire bricks they can crack and may even explode. As everyone else has said, prevention is key.

 

[monkeywood]

Frequent brushing

I do a total cleaning on my wood burner once every off season, and brush the SS insulated pipe mid Feb.

A smarty once told me close the flue. Rob the fire of oxygen and it will starve. Water will likely crack a brick, stone, or terracotta flu, but It should remain structually intact.

I liked the earlier post of dumping a dry chemical into it from the top. How you get up there and how hot you can stand your face getting as you try to put someting in there is another story.

Call the pros at 911 and get out

 

[gtstang462002]

I try to shut my insert down once a month and sweep. Needed or not. Prevention is key. I will pay the oil company for that one days worth of oil to keep my house and famliy safe.

 

[Festus Haggen]

How you get up there and how hot you can stand your face getting as you try to put someting in there is another story.

Call the pros at 911 and get out

a) ladder

b) yeah I had all my nomex on, the chem gets dumped off a D-handle shovel, keeps your putties away from the red stuff. Plus I don't like the taste, so I try to keep my face away when I do it.

 

[wdchuck]

Coming off the woodfurnace, the smokepipe is double-walled, stainless inner, blackpipe outer, leading to a masonry chimney block chimney that goes through the center of the house, 38'+. We were burning pallet cutoffs, and being the packer that I am, I fit all the little pieces in for max burn time, and had the damper turned down, well two weeks of brown smoke coming out until the fire would burn hot ended up causing some buildup in the smoke pipe and the chimney.

I was in the living room and heard the jet engine noise, had read about it, so off I went to the basement and sure enough, looking through an old smoke pipe hole in the chimney that was capped, there was quite a fire roaing in the double walled smoke pipe, so the damper was closed down on the woodfurnace, and I grabbed all three of my $20ABC extinguishers, and shot them down the smoke pipe from that capped opening, that took care of the fire initially, and there was none going up the masonry chimney yet. My next step was to get a spray bottle of water, and through that same opening, I squirted the water in little bursts until the hissing stopped.

The fire was so hot, that the paint finish flaked off the outside layer of metal pipe. Once I felt confident that there would be no restart, then I swept all the passages, the masonry chimney never ignited, but it was a close run thing.

Now, I sweep in the fall, once during the winter when the roof melts, and in the spring, the chimney interior gets a good check every two weeks from that same capped hole, mirror and a 1M candlepower Q-beam to look up, and to check the smoke pipe, if needed, I'll sweep, but my burning techniques have changed since then, so the build-up of dry, sooty, fuzz doesn't get more than 1/4" thick on the masonry chimney, and only slight residue on the smokepipe.

The two mistakes were having the fire damped down too much, and the wood packed too tight. I also upgraded all my ABC's to larger size now too.

 

[JBFab]

a) ladder

b) yeah I had all my nomex on, the chem gets dumped off a D-handle shovel, keeps your putties away from the red stuff. Plus I don't like the taste, so I try to keep my face away when I do it.

Yeah one of those cases where you don't want to put the wet stuff on the red stuff, I don't think the nomex is cheating unless you had an air pack on!

 

[iamspt]

Dry Sooty fuzz? Temps?

ENver gave it much thought but this dry sooty fuzz that I have on the top of my firebox sometimes...is that flamable? It is usually an off white color. Why does this accumulate like this?

Also regardind flue temperatures. I have a pacific energy vista classic with a doublewall stainless pipe right out of the top of the stove to the thimble in the celing. from there is goes upstairs and out the roof at the peak. Figure 20 feet of insulated double wall ss pipe from the top of the stove to the roof total and then another 3-4 feet outside. I have a thermometer on the flue pipe just as it connects to the stove. Not sure how accurate a reading it gets there but.... I try to keep in in the lower to center of the burn zone becasue I heard that thermometers on my stove and pipe setup will read lower that the flue actually is due to the type of pipe used(not single wall at the stove).

Any comments?