Choker Cable, or Chain and Choker Hook,,,,, OR,,,,, Bull Dogs!!?? (not the Purina kind!)

[SweetMK]

I borrowed a cant hook off of a neighbor,, so I could copy it,, that went well.
BUT~~!!
in his shed hanging up was his "Log Dogs",, or Bull Dogs,, or, I believe he said they also were called "Snake Hooks".
He told me that they drove those hooks in a log, and pulled the log out with horses.

Supposedly, the hook would never fall out. the geometry of the hook shape made the hook penetrate more, if the pull was harder.
The hooks were perfect, until the last time they were lent out, the borrower kept jerking them with his 3/4 ton truck,,
hence, the bolts that replaced the broken links.
I said, let me borrow those also,,

When I bent the hook for my cant, I noticed the shape was very similar to the logging hooks,,

So, is a "drive-in hook" Bull Dog ever used now,, or is it totally obsolete??

 

[northmanlogging]

its rare to see anyone using mechanical grapples, or dogs like that in actual industry, you will see the canadian loggers using a similar type of grapple for yarding logs, but its much much bigger and cable activated.
You might find some ole horse logger still using them, but they are rare enough as is.

Was a time when the drive in hooks like that were common place for loading logs around here, as the scissor type just didn't open big enough, and yes they by design dig deeper, but doesn't mean the wood/bark won't give out anyway, so don't trust them even on a good day.

As for the thread title, most folks around here use cable chokers to skid and hydrualic grapples to load, back east folks seem to think that chain type chokers are better... they are like many things when it comes to logging, misinformed i.e. wrong and too stupid to question why. (I said what I said) chains need something to shove them through, are ******* heavy and fail constantly, wire chokers you can force under, will let you know when they are about to fail, and are much much lighter and way cheaper.

 

[3000 FPS]

I am just a firewood hoarder but when I need a choker I use a wire rope choker....

 

[catbuster]

Chains are not to be yanked on.

I do not grasp how hard it is for people to grasp that chain links are brittle and break. Chains work great for static loading. Yarding logs is not a static load. Neither is pulling slide rail.

Cables are ductile because their small fibers bend. It’s a good system. Cables are also kind of stiff so you can shove them through holes, and the cat eyes on log chokers are easy to hook up.

As far as tongs go, I’ve seen them in use with swing yarders in Alaska, and they’re apparently very common in British Columbia. However, hydraulic grapples are the standard for handling logs.

 

[SweetMK]

Yes, earlier today, I was looking at wire chokers,, I all but ordered one,, waiting to hear the responses,,

I still think I have a use for the drive-in dogs,, I have a H U G E leftover pile of blocks and brush that was left from cutting my timber.
The pile is easily twice the size of a 2,000 square foot ranch style home,,

They asked me if I wanted it spread when they were here, I said no, I am hoping for it to decompose into nice earth,,
but, the nice firewood on top would be fun to retrieve,, so I might make the dogs, and try them.

 

[Brufab]

I have used these with great success.

 

[Huntaholic]

10 ft swedge chokers are what I use.

 

[3000 FPS]

10 ft swedge chokers are what I use.

What do those look like.

 

[ArtB]

photo of 3/4" wire rope choker I used until it broke pulling cherry stump, about 120,000 # (after 4 blocks) broke it, had no bad strands. 5/8" grade 70 chain did not break.

 

[Huntaholic]

What do those look like.

I confess, Im running an OOOLLLLDDDDD desktop and a galaxy S4 phone so I don't know how to get pics on here.

 

[SweetMK]

I confess, Im running an OOOLLLLDDDDD desktop and a galaxy S4 phone so I don't know how to get pics on here.

Does it look like this??

 

[northmanlogging]

photo of 3/4" wire rope choker I used until it broke pulling cherry stump, about 120,000 # (after 4 blocks) broke it, had no bad strands. 5/8" grade 70 chain did not break.

using a pipe choker, and cable clamps (around 2 to few btw) probably cut the cable more then it "broke"

Just cause you use it wrong doesn't mean its a bad tool.

 

[Bearcreek]

So, is a "drive-in hook" Bull Dog ever used now,, or is it totally obsolete??

Yes, they are still used by some folks who log with horses. They're called "log grabs" or log dogs and are traditionally pounded in and pulled out with a "skip hammer". Here is a source for new ones. https://horseloggersupply.com/shop

 

[Huntaholic]

Does it look like this??

Yes and no. The ones I use have the ball on both ends. They hook into choker slides on the end of my winch cable. That one is a regular choker, mine are slicker and stronger because the have been "swedged" down from a bigger size cable. I typically run a 9/16" swedge which is 5/8" that has been pressed down to a smaller diameter.

 

[TRTermite]

I confess, Im running an OOOLLLLDDDDD desktop and a galaxy S4 phone so I don't know how to get pics on here.

Don't feel bad.
My little brother set me up with a new computer hitched to a new big screen TV and a 7.5(?) apple phone and a lot of advice. I still haven't figgered out how to post pictures and cut and paste and you get the idea. I have managed self restraint to do physical harm to my electronic gadgetry (So FAR).

 

[SweetMK]

Don't feel bad.
My little brother set me up with a new computer hitched to a new big screen TV and a 7.5(?) apple phone and a lot of advice
. I have managed self restraint to do physical harm to my electronic gadgetry (So FAR).

My son-in-law is a computer guru for a large company,, and lives 1/4 mile away,,
His father taught him much about computers,, he lives a mile further down the road.

NEITHER one of them has a pickup truck,,, I have two 3/4 ton pickups,,
I NEVER have to ask twice to get my computer stuff corrected or updated,,

Amazing,, isn't it!!??

 

[northmanlogging]

Does it look like this??

Pictured would be called a "Cat Eye Choker", to be used with a hook on the winch line or shackled together, never run cable to cable, it will cut... much like rope on rope is a bad idea

the alternative would be ferrule ends, or bullet ends (same thing different colloquialisms)

You will notice that the "bell" has a key hole slot for the ferrule to slip into, making a smooth transition without binding or sharp edges, for logging this is the way to go. the other picture showing a pipe choker, uses either a loop, or a double eyed sling, with the hook attaching in the middle or on one eye or the other, they are not meant to carry the full rating of the cable because they will cut the cable if overloaded. Hence use the right tool for the job. That said more often then not "cat eye" chokers will fail at the eye, its the bend point and point of most friction, where as bullet/ferrule ended chokers will eventually fail at one ferrule or the other, usually at the side closest to the slider on the main line.

Also I might add, that a pipe choker is a step backwards in ease of use compared to even a chain, as now you have to stuff the eye end under the log, or try to get a bight of cable through, not exactly the funnest thing to do while crotch deep in brush.

 

[catbuster]

What people will call chokers in every other industry other than logging, is not a good choice to choke logs. As Matt stated above, cable on cable will damage the strands and it will fail as they slide past one another. The bell end and the ferrule on a cat eye choker prevents the cable-on-cable prevents this slip.

Put too much power behind a cable and it will break, regardless. A John Deere 470G will snap a 1/2” standard choker sling like it’s not even there. Ask me how I know.

Pipe and cat-eye chokers, and then pipe chokers with hard eyes/ferrules put in the loop, I know it’s confusing.

But as far as logging goes, most people will refer to a cat eye choker when they use the word choker. In just about every other heavy industry, people will refer to the double eyed choker.

 

[3000 FPS]

Well in the logging industry I can see where these different types of chokers can make a big difference but for myself and other firewood people just a simple steel cable with a loop on the end works fine.

 

[catbuster]

I disagree-you can have a cat eye choker that will hook most logs for $50. That’s cheaper than of a lot of broken cable or broken chains, and it’s way easier to live with.

If having the right tool for the job is inexpensive and likely more cost effective over the long run, why not use the right tool? I mean, not knowing the right tool exists is one thing. But knowing better, them being inexpensive and not using one is asinine. Regardless of who you are.