Chosing saw for new property and possibly milling

[OM617YOTA]

if you buy a clone you WILL need to work on it before you even start the saw

This is the dealbreaker for clones for me. Very fortunate to have more money than time; when I cut wood the saw just needs to work. Zero interest in buying a brand new project saw. I'd be so pissed at myself if I burned half a day trying to get my saw working just because I tried to save a few bucks.

 

[sean donato]

As other have mentioned, average tress size will dictate what saw/bar you would want. If you're seldom lying going to see much over a 20" tree a 50cc saw with an 18-20" bar will be fine. While I have a few and run a lot of 50cc saws, I'm partial to the 60cc "class" of saws. The husqy 562xp and stihl ms400 will run a 24" bar, both will be happy with a 20" bar on them. I've owned/own both. My ms400 has become my go to saw for the last 2-3 years. I really liked my 562xp, but unfortunately I had a carb issue during a fence row removal, finished the day off with my 390xp. Dealer couldn't get parts for it. (This was right after covid.) So I ended up searching till I found the ms400 as Ira replacment. I would have bought another 562xp if I could have found one and was lucky to get the ms400. Even had to pay foe it over the phone as it was the last one on the shelf and that dealer wasn't holding saws for anyone.
Anyway, the 562xp is a decent bit cheaper then a ms400, and only cuts marginally slower. Both are factory hot rods for their size.
Echo 590 was mentioned. They are decent saws. Bit heavy and down on power vs a husqy or stihl. Functional and reliable. It will push a 24" bar, but not like it. Much more at home with a 20". (Assuming hardwoods.) Price wise it's hard to beat. I think the 620p is the "professional" version of the 590. May be another option.

 

[Johnwell]

Another vote for the CS590. You can get them cheap (I got mine for $180) and very dependable. Not very lightweight or exciting; but solid for a ‘do everything’ or ‘jack of all trades’ kind of saw, especially if you aren’t in a hurry when you’re running the longer bar. It’d be my pick if I could only have one saw and was on a budget.


If you take milling/long bar out of the equation, I’d vote for something in the 50cc class. For homeowner stuff, it’s way more than capable as long as you take your time, and noticeably lighter. You’d be surprised what you can get done with an 18” bar and a good 50cc saw

 

[cuttinstihl]

If you're willing to spend the extra money, a 400C with a 20 or 24" bar is the ultimate 1 saw plan, bar any sawmill work. Super light for the displacement, good power to run a 24" bar, but I wouldn't recommend it for milling at all, the Mtronic prevents it from being able to tune a touch rich for milling, a must IME. Otherwise it's the saw to get if you only want one.

If you've got a tighter budget and you want to buy a new saw, a 590 or 620 Echo are far and away the best value 60cc saws, and both are saws I would feel comfortable with for a 1 saw plan. They don't quite have the power or refinement of the 400C, but are still great quality mag case saws and will easily lay a hurting on any MS391 or 460 Rancher out there. I have zero qualms with running a 24" bar on either after a muffler mod (a 10 minute job that will really improve the power), and they're basically bulletproof saws. Another plus is they've got a long stroke for the displacement, and can be tuned to run rich, both key factors if you're milling. I wouldn't want to mill anything over 16" with either saw, as there's no replacement for displacement when it comes to that. I would feel more comfortable putting them on a mill vs the computer controlled 400C

 

[sean donato]

More guys are running small mills with auto tune/mtronic saws then you would think. The saws take it just fine. Buddy has been using a ported 572xp on a 20" mill (24" bar) for 3 years or so now. Saw pulls felling/bucking duty too. Shows no signs of ever being overheated or over worked. Just read about someone milling with a 592xp not long ago too. I wouldn't do it, but I have a pile of larger saws without auto tune/ m ironic. Big difference when you have 32-36" buried vs 16-20". I'd still want something 90+ cc but that's just me.

 

[fields_mj]

This is the dealbreaker for clones for me. Very fortunate to have more money than time; when I cut wood the saw just needs to work. Zero interest in buying a brand new project saw. I'd be so pissed at myself if I burned half a day trying to get my saw working just because I tried to save a few bucks.

No argument there, but to be clear, I did all the work in less than an hour, I did it before I ever bothered to put the saw to work, and I haven't had to touch it since. Still, the idea of having to work on a brand new saw is very off putting for most folks and I can't blame them. I don't have the money to run new OEM saws, so I'm stuck with clones or well used OEMs. Both are likely to need work when they reach my door step.

 

[iowa_jim]

My situation was similar to yours, except that I have a little more need for milling to feed my own woodworking habit.
I run a 28" bar on an Echo 620. She was a little underpowered for the 28", until I put several tanks through her, and now she's a beast. That's from a land owner's perspective anyway. I wouldn't want to run that bar commercially, but for my needs she gets it done. I have a 20" bar, but it's yet to see any action.
The 28" bar minimizes stooping for bucking. I get 25" of useable bar length, and 20" in a mill.

 

[JKope88]

Just want to thank everyone that has commented for sharing a wealth of knowledge with me.

My enthusiasm definitely gets ahead of me at times. Always good to have those that actually know say slow down a bit. I think I'm going to pump the breaks on anything with milling for the time.

Based on everyone's recommendations I think I'm going to start with something in the 50-60cc range from a known maker to start. Stihl, echo, etc. I have to say the power to weight of the 261 is very appealing. Going to see what makes itself available in the lightly used/ well cared for market. Going to look to see if I can't get some training or time with some pros in the area after the move.

Other than hands on with a company what do most pros do to gain their skills to ensure safe and competent operations?

 

[JKope88]

My situation was similar to yours, except that I have a little more need for milling to feed my own woodworking habit.
I run a 28" bar on an Echo 620. She was a little underpowered for the 28", until I put several tanks through her, and now she's a beast. That's from a land owner's perspective anyway. I wouldn't want to run that bar commercially, but for my needs she gets it done. I have a 20" bar, but it's yet to see any action.
The 28" bar minimizes stooping for bucking. I get 25" of useable bar length, and 20" in a mill.

After spending too many hours browsing YouTube that's where I came up with the notion of using a longer bar to not have to spend as much time stooped or bent over. I understand you'll have to do so but if I can minimize it that's the best for my back as I get back into better shape. I like the idea of bucking standing up and some of the techniques for mid aged fellas like myself definitely seem to fall into the work smarter not harder realm.

 

[cuttinstihl]

More guys are running small mills with auto tune/mtronic saws then you would think. The saws take it just fine. Buddy has been using a ported 572xp on a 20" mill (24" bar) for 3 years or so now. Saw pulls felling/bucking duty too. Shows no signs of ever being overheated or over worked. Just read about someone milling with a 592xp not long ago too. I wouldn't do it, but I have a pile of larger saws without auto tune/ m ironic. Big difference when you have 32-36" buried vs 16-20". I'd still want something 90+ cc but that's just me.

No doubt the bigger saws can get it done well for milling, I know plenty using mtronic 661s for milling with no issues. It’s mostly a worry of mine with the smaller cc saws

 

[thompsoncustom]

No doubt the bigger saws can get it done well for milling, I know plenty using mtronic 661s for milling with no issues. It’s mostly a worry of mine with the smaller cc saws

Was just at the stihl dealer the other day in the back talking with him after hours and he had a new (still under warranty) ms661 sitting there that he said had been used for milling and it had melted down which was obvious from just looking at it.

Couldn't give you anymore details as he hadn't even looked at it yet but it made me wonder if there was problems with the autotune/mtronic saws and milling since you can't turn up the fueling to help cool the saw down?

 

[sean donato]

After spending too many hours browsing YouTube that's where I came up with the notion of using a longer bar to not have to spend as much time stooped or bent over. I understand you'll have to do so but if I can minimize it that's the best for my back as I get back into better shape. I like the idea of bucking standing up and some of the techniques for mid aged fellas like myself definitely seem to fall into the work smarter not harder realm.

Get the log off the ground. Plenty of handy tools out there for the task. Usually I'm dragging logs home, use the tractor to pick them up. There cant poles with jacks on them. I'm not a fan of the run a longer bar and use the tip end of it to avoid bending over a little. You'll get used to it after a while.

 

[sean donato]

Was just at the stihl dealer the other day in the back talking with him after hours and he had a new (still under warranty) ms661 sitting there that he said had been used for milling and it had melted down which was obvious from just looking at it.

Couldn't give you anymore details as he hadn't even looked at it yet but it made me wonder if there was problems with the autotune/mtronic saws and milling since you can't turn up the fueling to help cool the saw down?

Plenty of people burn up saws, all just conjecture and guessing till you see what's going in inside and if you can get the truth out of the owner.

 

[fields_mj]

After spending too many hours browsing YouTube that's where I came up with the notion of using a longer bar to not have to spend as much time stooped or bent over. I understand you'll have to do so but if I can minimize it that's the best for my back as I get back into better shape. I like the idea of bucking standing up and some of the techniques for mid aged fellas like myself definitely seem to fall into the work smarter not harder realm.

As far as training goes, be careful who you learn from. Around here, a lot of the tree crews I've seen are just as or more dangerous than a brand new home owner. There are good ones to learn from, but I don't know how to tell you which ones are which.

As far as long bars go, there are definitely 2 schools of though with one of those being to use a bigger saw with a longer bar to avoid bending over. I run shorter bars because of how I do things. My 036 is my favorite bucking saw for anything under 20", and my 026 gets used for most of the limbing work. A 261 is a noticeable step up in HP from its older 026 relative and should get you pretty close to the power that I'm getting from my 036 making it a great choice. If you go with a longer bar to avoid bending over, I'd go with a 70cc saw and a 28" bar. The trick there is keeping the tip out of the dirt AND avoiding kickback. The longer bar significantly reduces the effect of a kickback, but its still something to be avoided.

If you're clearing land, hopefully you have a tractor with a loader or grapple, a skid steer with a grapple, or a mini with a thumb. Any of those can get the wood off the ground to cut it, or drag the tree out and set it across something (RR tie or another log) to get it off the ground.

 

[OM617YOTA]

60cc is about the perfect one-saw plan, I cut wood for 3 houses for a decade with only an 034S.

These days, either I'm only cutting tiny stuff or I just need to make a cut or two, and the battery electric saw is perfect for that. Bigger jobs, I skip straight to a bigger saw. I'd rather hold a heavier saw for a shorter time period, and the bigger the job the more that's true.

 

[iowa_jim]

That's a great question regarding where to learn. I'd recommend reading the manual and following its recommendations for PPE and basic cuts. After a while a person will become aware of how the saw behaves and then we can explore additional techniques. If one can cull the available YouTube videos, there is a wealth of information at our finger tips.

 

[JKope88]

That's a great question regarding where to learn. I'd recommend reading the manual and following its recommendations for PPE and basic cuts. After a while a person will become aware of how the saw behaves and then we can explore additional techniques. If one can cull the available YouTube videos, there is a wealth of information at our finger tips.

Yeah definitely have watched tons of YouTube. I just figure I'd ask if anyone knew of more formal training technical school or something. Not sure I need or want to climb but definitely seems like a bad idea to just try and figure it out.

 

[dboyd351]

. I won't be able to go much past a two saw set up and definitely not if I go Stihl, which seems to be by far the best

Many, many professional loggers use Husquvarna saws. Don't believe everything you hear on YouTube.

, if you buy a clone you WILL need to work on it before you even start the saw.

This isn't true either. I have used a Holzfforma G372 for 5 or 6 years and not a single part has been replaced.

Once again it sounds like you are listening to people with biases based on no firsthand experience on the things they are discounting - not the best way to form opinions.

As for Echo's 590 and 620 saws - I have neither, but can tell you if you read much on this site, you will soon discover they are widely regarded as the best bang for the buck among 60cc class saws.

That's what I would start out with if I were you.

 

[OM617YOTA]

If you need someone to work on the saw for you, then a good dealer will be more important than the name on the starter cover. Figure out who the best dealer in your area is and buy whatever they sell.

 

[diver64]

First, you asked about a long bar. How long are you thinking? What is the approximate diameter of the trees you'll be working with? That's one of the biggest things that will feed into how big of a saw you will NEED to take down those trees.

Clearing trees means long days of hard work. Its one thing to go spend a few hours cutting a truckload of firewood. For stuff like that, almost any saw will work. When you're going to be working at it all day long, that's when the pro-saws (more power, less weight) are worth the extra money, and an MS261 is a great pro-saw to start on. That said, $1400 USD is WAY WAY WAY too much money to put into any 50cc saw. At that price point, you're almost into a new 70cc to 90cc saw.

Honestly, if you can find an MS261 that's seen light to moderate use, there's no reason not to that route and save a little more money. The classifieds adds on this forum has probably been the BEST source for used saws I've ever come across. I bought my 026, and both of my 036 saws used (many years ago) for less than $300 each (only the 026 was from this forum), but (as you've said) most people want a mint for their worn out old pro-saws which is what pushes me towards the clones.

You'll get a lot of opinions on here about the Chinese clones. I have a G660, and absolutely love it. I run a 28" bar on it most of the time, and I have a 41" bar that I've had to use on a couple of trees including a LARGE red oak that died in my yard. With that said, if you buy a clone you WILL need to work on it before you even start the saw. Once the necessary upgrades are completed, they are a very cost effective option for someone that only needs one for limited use.

One other think to think about is that felling the tree is, by far, the most dangerous part of the process, and the more things there are for the tree to get hung up on, hit on the way down, or land on, the more tricky it becomes. Depending on how things are on this property, it might be worth having someone someone else get them on the ground for you. A trip to the ER gets expensive, and coffins ain't cheap either.

IDK. I've had 3 clones over the years and about to get another. Maybe I'm lucky but all I've done is tune them.