Climbing question for you guys
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Those are all good solid techniques
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
I can do the same thing with my Blake's if I use a biner with it.
tramp bushler
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How do you set it up?
Houston Tree
ArboristSite Lurker
I like the rope -
I only use a lanyard when I am climbing the tree for the first time to set up my ropes. The lanyard is really good for the initial climb. Its actually a must, unless you use a throw line to get your ropes in the tree. Other than for setting up your ropes, I think the lanyard is not very productive. It slows everything down. A blakes, if tied correctly is the best knot to use and very safe. I like to use my spikes always. They speed things up and make it good to get in positions that you can't get into without spikes. The other reason to use a lanyard and spikes is after all the limbs have been removed and its time to take down the trunk. Gotta use the lanyard and spikes to be efficient, but I'm sure you already know this...
Also think about this - When you are in the tree connected to a lanyard. If you were to have a accident and loose your footing and became badly injured. say injuring a leg. How would you get your footing back to undo your lanyard to get out of the tree? Always use a rope for this added caution and easily repel yourself down the tree quickly. It only takes about 10 minutes of hanging in the tree in your harness and you will be close to dying because of the blood being cut off from your legs.
Hope my comments helped. I definitely think a rope is the best and fastest way.
I only use a lanyard when I am climbing the tree for the first time to set up my ropes. The lanyard is really good for the initial climb. Its actually a must, unless you use a throw line to get your ropes in the tree. Other than for setting up your ropes, I think the lanyard is not very productive. It slows everything down. A blakes, if tied correctly is the best knot to use and very safe. I like to use my spikes always. They speed things up and make it good to get in positions that you can't get into without spikes. The other reason to use a lanyard and spikes is after all the limbs have been removed and its time to take down the trunk. Gotta use the lanyard and spikes to be efficient, but I'm sure you already know this...
Also think about this - When you are in the tree connected to a lanyard. If you were to have a accident and loose your footing and became badly injured. say injuring a leg. How would you get your footing back to undo your lanyard to get out of the tree? Always use a rope for this added caution and easily repel yourself down the tree quickly. It only takes about 10 minutes of hanging in the tree in your harness and you will be close to dying because of the blood being cut off from your legs.
Hope my comments helped. I definitely think a rope is the best and fastest way.
Houston Tree
ArboristSite Lurker
good fast climber opinion
My opinion about a good fast climber is this:
A good climber is a smart climber, a fast climber is a experienced climber. Some of my guys are super fast, but they have years of experience, and I have other guys who try to be fast but are really kind of dangerous. You can be fast and safe. That is what is a good climber in my opinion.
Experience is what determines a good climber, not how fast they are. they think everything thru. I don't want my guys trying to be fast and cut off a whole limb when it should've come down in pieces. most cuts are faster in the tree in my opinion anyways. I like everything that can be cut in the tree to be cut up in the tree. so when it hits the ground its ready to be chipped or hauled.
Cutting corners by my employees is completely unacceptable for me, but if you are a business owner of a small tree company and you do most of the work yourself or even if you have workers doing the work. If you cut corners and have unsafe practices. You shouldn't even own a business or be in this line of work. What are you going to save? 3 minutes of work to cut that corner? do it right and you will have happy customers and quality services.
My opinion about a good fast climber is this:
A good climber is a smart climber, a fast climber is a experienced climber. Some of my guys are super fast, but they have years of experience, and I have other guys who try to be fast but are really kind of dangerous. You can be fast and safe. That is what is a good climber in my opinion.
Experience is what determines a good climber, not how fast they are. they think everything thru. I don't want my guys trying to be fast and cut off a whole limb when it should've come down in pieces. most cuts are faster in the tree in my opinion anyways. I like everything that can be cut in the tree to be cut up in the tree. so when it hits the ground its ready to be chipped or hauled.
Cutting corners by my employees is completely unacceptable for me, but if you are a business owner of a small tree company and you do most of the work yourself or even if you have workers doing the work. If you cut corners and have unsafe practices. You shouldn't even own a business or be in this line of work. What are you going to save? 3 minutes of work to cut that corner? do it right and you will have happy customers and quality services.
So, when would you use a throwline?
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
Solution: Phones stay in the truck or groundies stay home.
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
On the Left is my split-tail, on the Right beside where it's clipped into my harness is another biner with the climb line clipped down through it and brought around under and clipped in again. You can where my right hand is on the blake's as usual for descending.
This is for descending only, can't climb up with it, but it makes descending down through thick canopy a lot easier, because you have your other hand free to push off of limbs and position your self as needed or whatever else you might need a free hand for like dialing your phone so you tell your groundie to get off of his and do something.
View attachment 311684
Houston Tree
ArboristSite Lurker
I dont know the difference between a lanyard and a flipline. I figured they were the same thing all this time. i guess I technically use a adjustable flipline.
I think this could be cool, but I haven't climbed with a split tail in so long I'm still trying to wrap my brain around it. Can you take another pic maybe a little further out? I couldn't quite chase the rope path. But it looks really interesting! Jeff
Jolly Jeff, huh? Well, I guess Grumpy Jeff was already taken.... and yeah, you saw where I was goin with the question, ... you're to smart for me.:msp_tongue:
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
@ Jolly Jeff lol
It's actually quite simple, if you look at my avatar, it's the same rig only the biners aren't clipped into the D-Ring on the harness(on the avatar).
The tail of the climb line, below the second biner, you bring your hand in behind it on the inside and sort of cradle it between your thumb and index finger as you reach up and grab the knot.
You belay it at the knot, you can stop by squeezing the running end of the rope or by releasing the knot, so if you panic you'll squeeze the knot and stop, and if you let of the knot the knot will set and stop you.
It's pretty foolproof.
It's actually quite simple, if you look at my avatar, it's the same rig only the biners aren't clipped into the D-Ring on the harness(on the avatar).
The tail of the climb line, below the second biner, you bring your hand in behind it on the inside and sort of cradle it between your thumb and index finger as you reach up and grab the knot.
You belay it at the knot, you can stop by squeezing the running end of the rope or by releasing the knot, so if you panic you'll squeeze the knot and stop, and if you let of the knot the knot will set and stop you.
It's pretty foolproof.
So the wrap on the biner kind of adds enough friction to let a blake's work on an srt rig, if I'm reading you right? At least for descent? I can see the challenges for ascending, but like in a spar choking situation it'll work as a secondary and not lock up? I kinda like it, I would think the same principle would work with a vt. Gonna have to play with that, might even cut a splittail tomorrow just to see. Correct any of my assumptions before I bust my ass tommorrow, though, if ya don't mind, lol. Jolly
There we go, I'll just sign off Jolly, instead of Jeff , so nobody confuses me with ole grumpy
Houston Tree
ArboristSite Lurker
Either Im lacking sleep or I cant read anymore, but I completely misread the original question. My apologies. Ok so to address the actual question.
When do I throw a throw-line, The easier answer is when do I not throw a throwline. I use a throw line at almost every tree I tackle. There are many reasons to use a throw-line. When I want to climb a tree, I try to throw a line as high in the tree as I can. Obviously I try to throw it over a strong enough branch to support my weight without question. I tie the end of the throw-line to my climbing rope and use the throw-line to pull my climbing rope into the tree. Then I strap on my spikes and tie a blake's to my harness and start climbing. No need for a lanyard or a flipline. It is much faster than climbing with a flipline. We mainly performing Houston tree removal so we are climbing pines and oaks mostly. The pines are very tall here with limited limbs to use a throw-line, because the branches are so high up on the 100' trees. In these cases I definitely use a flipline because a flipline works more efficiently.
Another use for a throw-line is when felling trees you don't need to climb to top or remove branches before felling. If I am felling a tree I hardly ever fell a tree without using a ground guy to pull a rope to steer the tree. I can cut a notch and lay a tree on a Dixie cup, but it takes about 2 extra minutes to throw a line and pull a rope to make sure the tree goes exactly where you want to place the tree. So this is another great use for a throw-line.
Throw-lines are cheap and a must have for any tree crew. If you don't own one buy one. They are less than $20. make sure to buy the lil throw-line bag from a arborist supply website that are meant for throw-lines. They are little bags that have a d-ring on it to tie the rope and inside the little bag there are bb's or ball bearings inside of it. This helps if you mess up and hit a window or something. It helps absorb the impact but don't mess up. Go practice on a tree in a area where nothing can become damaged.
Hope this info helps. let me know if you need to know where to buy one. There is a technique to throwing the line on youtube probably. it takes a little practice to get good at it but it aint rocket science.
Houston Tree
ArboristSite Lurker
hey man sorry I read your question wrong. Jeff re-asked it and I replied to him if you are interested about when I use a throwline.
sgreanbeans
Treeaculterologist
So, just so I understand, you don't use a lanyard...or ya do? U use spikes all the time, even on pruning (trimming)? And when do u use a throwline?
Carburetorless
ArboristSite Guru
Yep, that's how it works. When you make the rap on the second biner, use the part of the rope that's between the second biner and the Blake's. You may have to feed a bit of slack to have enough to clip into the biner then bring it under and clip in again.
I use it solely for descending, so I've never used like that, but I think you could, just experiment with it.
My advice would be to test your assumptions low and slow, that way you won't end up sore & grumpy Jeff. lol
The only problem(a small one) I've had with it is the fact that it likes to eat your glove if you let the sleeve of the glove get in there. I use those mechanic's type gloves with the Velcro strap, the sleeve on them is pretty short and gets in the rig sometimes, but with the right gloves you probably won't have that problem.
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68 Buick
ArboristSite Operative
I hope it's OK for a newcomer to just jump in? I've been hesitate to jump in due to the fact that I feel like I have been under a rock. I don't use any of the new gadgets out there and kinda lost on some of the terminology. I'm much in line with old school climbing but have enjoyed these forums ( very interesting ). I just wanted to add to the beginning comments about keeping you're spurs sharpen, that having good and proper padding will help those pains to the legs. I think its great Sgreanbean that your teaching your sons and how your teaching them. I had my boy under me for a while, thinking he be climbing next to me but then he chose a career in the Marines. I believe a good climber is one who thinks things through, sets up well, and respect for the tree. We all can get into trouble, knowing how to get out of it is key.
