climbing system upgrade?

[gitrdun_climbr]

I decided to upgrade my system in recent weeks and switched from distel to VT, knotted to eye to eye machine splice, HRC to Beeline, old Weaver fixed double D saddle to Ergovation, flipline from right hip to left hip away from saws, handsaw from left to right hip with chainsaw, incorporated 25' rope lanyard (daisy-chained).

I'm hoping some of you more experienced climbers may have some input on a few minor problems I'm having. Overall I can tell this setup should make for more comfortable and efficient climbing in the long run but not if I don't work out a few kinks.

My 3/3 VT is so nice and slippery I love it on these long ascents here in PNW. Love how it self tails just from rope weight then locks well under weight (with manual setting every time). Biggest problem I'm having with it is it self tails all the slack out when I'm trying to gather working line for the next hand pitch. Find myself pulling my hank, then tying a little stopper knot which reduces net efficiency (as did pinning the rope with foot, holding it with teeth, etc.). Do you guys have any ideas for dealing with this? With those bulky machine splices I can't add anymore wraps or brainds. Maybe I need the 2" longer eye to eye offered and add a wrap? I have the 30", they offer 32" at Vermeer.

The eyes on my eye to eye machine splice have stretched just a bit so now I'm constantly side-loading (or threatening to) my biners because there is no sinching action like with the double fishermans. I understand there is an appeal in greater break rating on the splice, is there a special shape of biner that keeps them in order? Some other trick?

Beeline seems nice. Softer and grippier than the HRC. HRC seems to hold a good shape with the distel and not bind up too much.

The Ergovation is nice but not as comfortable as my old leather saddle yet (nothing like well worn leather). Killing my right hipbone but I think there's just a small fold in the backpad right there. Also all the extra leg padding is nice but the added material makes a more effective nut cracker if you don't hang them way low on your legs. Be aware that they run slightly large. Everything's maxed out on my adjustments and it barely fits my 32" waist just right. Sliding bridge is great for reaching but still getting used to adjusting myself straight when I teeter to one side of the other.

Keeping lanyards on left and all saws on right should have been done from the start. Over alot of years I got used to throwing the flipper with right hand so I still reach for the adjuster with the right hand first, then go to the left. Has anyone else changed something like that where it felt like forever to 'remember' it?

The long rope lanyard I had used years ago. Works well in deciduous trees where you can instantly setup a double crotch, standard lanyard with one hand adjustment, it's lightweight, etc. I found that assembling the daisy chain from the tail up makes it to where you can easily undo one half hitch, pull as much lanyard out of the chain as you need, throw a half hitch back on and never have to tamper with your chained and hung tail. Only problem I see is hanging the tail puts a loop in your system to catch on things. Even a 25' lanyard chained only hangs 6-7 feet when unhooked. About like a standard 15' steelcore.

Are all of these gagets and changes gonna make me leaner and meaner over time or have I just made more work for myself?

Thanks guys!

 

[TreeAce]

I am pretty sure the only way to get "leaner n meaner" over time....is to put in the time. Sounds like you got some nicer gear and I am sure you will be glad you did. I cant comment on the lanyard thing as far as the lenth and daisy chain thing. As far as hanging it on the left away from ur saw, well, that does make sense except I dont do it and have never had a problem with it. I like to think that with experince comes a sort of "organized awarness". I will say that switching from a distel to a VT isnt NESASARLY an improvement. It wasnt for me but It could be for you i guess. Most of all keep in mind that ,IMO, the gear doesnt make the climber look good...the climber makes the gear look good.

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

change

After constant use (years) it is hard to change. Went to sliding bridge after 8yrs stationary. Took a couple months to get use to extra movement. Love it now. Always used and stayed with baton seat style. No nut crunch. Changed from traditional lanyard adjuster to a cinch. Less wear and tear on hands in adjustment. Far as VT or other e to e hitches. Yes they do work and wear out. I ditched all the in favor of SRT climbing. Got a couple grigri and hand ascender. RADS climbing style. No hitch expense or trying to get just the right length cord. More work time lesss messing with equipmen.

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

As TreeAce said the gear by itself wont make you good climber. Faster with less effort will come with time. The new gear will help all climbers in the long run. If some thing improve your climbing use it. If not ditch it and move on.

 

[imagineero]

The eyes on my eye to eye machine splice have stretched just a bit so now I'm constantly side-loading (or threatening to) my biners because there is no sinching action like with the double fishermans. I understand there is an appeal in greater break rating on the splice, is there a special shape of biner that keeps them in order? Some other trick?

+1 on what the other guys have said about gear not really making you a better climber. I could see that daisy chained lanyard becoming a big pain. I climb with a 10' wire core with a snap on one end only and I like the shortness. When I want to triangulate my tie in with 2 points I use the tail of my rope, effectively working both ends of the rope at the same time. If it's a really big tree I might use a second rope. If it's a really wide tree I sometimes set both my ropes from the ground with the big shot which saves a lot of tree time. When I'm doing fat trees I switch to a longer lanyard, usually just rope.

To help retain your e2e you just need an o-ring. If you look closely at the setup with this lanyard here you can see the carabiner has an o ring retaining the blue lanyard, and the other end has an o ring ready for attaching a second carabiner. Take a look at one in a shop if you can, it's not that obvious how to fit the o ring until you look at it a few times. A rubber band works fine too, but they dont last long.

Shaun

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

Gosh, sorry for the long-winded post. Had alot on my mind!

O-ring, great idea. That should help with the eye to eyes ending up all over the carabiner. Already loving the VT on the long rope and just run a distel on a short line for second tie-in chunking down spars as it doesn't self tail much.

So far I've left the long lanyard in the trunk and just run a steelcore on everything as I have for years. Flipping from left to right is getting more natural by the day. Like you Shaun, I'll set an extra line or use tail when needed so negates the need for long lanyard. Nice to use it as a short climbing line in little trees I notice. Good advice man, thanks.

I know where everyone's coming from on the "gear not making a better climber". I wasn't really looking for this gear to make me a "better" climber as much as a more "comfortable and efficient" climber. I learned a long time ago there is no substitute for climbing skills. You get more safe and efficient from experience and learning from others (why I'm here). However, some examples of how gear can add efficiency is a bigshot and foot ascender. The Ergo is getting more comfortable by the day, allowing me to stay in the tree longer. I suppose an increase in climbing production is "better" in a sense, but not trying be technical. Just wondering what worked and didn't work for some of you guys.

Saw Dust, that RADS system looks pretty cool. Do you end up working off the single line? I'll occasionally use SRT to get up in a fir top but then switch over to DRT to work. RADS looks pretty energy efficient though.

Thanks for the input guys!

 

[Iustinian]

I decided to upgrade my system in recent weeks and switched from distel to VT, knotted to eye to eye machine splice, HRC to Beeline, old Weaver fixed double D saddle to Ergovation, flipline from right hip to left hip away from saws, handsaw from left to right hip with chainsaw, incorporated 25' rope lanyard (daisy-chained).

I'm hoping some of you more experienced climbers may have some input on a few minor problems I'm having. Overall I can tell this setup should make for more comfortable and efficient climbing in the long run but not if I don't work out a few kinks.

My 3/3 VT is so nice and slippery I love it on these long ascents here in PNW. Love how it self tails just from rope weight then locks well under weight (with manual setting every time). Biggest problem I'm having with it is it self tails all the slack out when I'm trying to gather working line for the next hand pitch. Find myself pulling my hank, then tying a little stopper knot which reduces net efficiency (as did pinning the rope with foot, holding it with teeth, etc.). Do you guys have any ideas for dealing with this? With those bulky machine splices I can't add anymore wraps or brainds. Maybe I need the 2" longer eye to eye offered and add a wrap? I have the 30", they offer 32" at Vermeer.

The eyes on my eye to eye machine splice have stretched just a bit so now I'm constantly side-loading (or threatening to) my biners because there is no sinching action like with the double fishermans. I understand there is an appeal in greater break rating on the splice, is there a special shape of biner that keeps them in order? Some other trick?

Beeline seems nice. Softer and grippier than the HRC. HRC seems to hold a good shape with the distel and not bind up too much.

The Ergovation is nice but not as comfortable as my old leather saddle yet (nothing like well worn leather). Killing my right hipbone but I think there's just a small fold in the backpad right there. Also all the extra leg padding is nice but the added material makes a more effective nut cracker if you don't hang them way low on your legs. Be aware that they run slightly large. Everything's maxed out on my adjustments and it barely fits my 32" waist just right. Sliding bridge is great for reaching but still getting used to adjusting myself straight when I teeter to one side of the other.

Keeping lanyards on left and all saws on right should have been done from the start. Over alot of years I got used to throwing the flipper with right hand so I still reach for the adjuster with the right hand first, then go to the left. Has anyone else changed something like that where it felt like forever to 'remember' it?

The long rope lanyard I had used years ago. Works well in deciduous trees where you can instantly setup a double crotch, standard lanyard with one hand adjustment, it's lightweight, etc. I found that assembling the daisy chain from the tail up makes it to where you can easily undo one half hitch, pull as much lanyard out of the chain as you need, throw a half hitch back on and never have to tamper with your chained and hung tail. Only problem I see is hanging the tail puts a loop in your system to catch on things. Even a 25' lanyard chained only hangs 6-7 feet when unhooked. About like a standard 15' steelcore.

Are all of these gagets and changes gonna make me leaner and meaner over time or have I just made more work for myself?

Thanks guys!

sounds like you plunked down some seroius coin and got yourself a very nice gear setup.

I have a couple handsaws, just depends on what I'm doing, one clips on my Sequioa, the other straps to my leg. No matter which one I'm using, I always find myself reaching down to my knee to grab my saw -- its a good place for it, outta the way -- every once in a while the standing part of my rope drops into it but no big deal.

beeline is a great friction cord, but you should try several different kinds out -- ultra-tech seems to work great on most ropes and last a long time I've noticed.

VT is an excellent knot, when the friction cords are new, but as they wear, the heat and friction creates "memory" in the cord, so it wont grab as well over time -- that's when I switch to the distel, knut, or michocain till I buy another cord.

Petzl Ok, or other oval biners are the best (I think) biners to use on climb lines, because they are symmetrical, so they load on their major axis 99% of the time. U can also use the bands sherill sells, which you can put on either side to act as a "keeper"' they're cheap, and easy to remove if you need to use the biner for something else. OK's are the only biner I use on my climbing line and I never have a problem with turning or crossloading -- the black tactical ones are slightly lighter too btw

Long lanyards, fliplines, work positioning lanyard w/e u call it are GREAT for getting faster and faster and faster. the longer tails can be a pain yes, but daisy chaining is an ok way to deal with it, u could also tuck the extra tail into a ditty bag or wingman bag. I think my next fliplines' gonna be a 25' blue water 10mm static line (spliced of course); its REALLY lightweight and very strong. and different color than my climbing line, which I prefer. I HATE wirecore fliplines because they are way heavier.

another thing you can do to save time on your longer line is get a single action gate biner (ascessory carabiner -- I like black diamonds oval) to put in the last loop of your daisy chain; that way you dont have to keep tying the knot, just take it in or out as you need it, I'm so used to it now I can do it with my eyes closed lol.

good luck with the new gear -- sounds awesome. I just like Sequioa a little better than Ergo bc Sequioa is lighter.

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

Most work done by SRT. Just saves energy and wear\tear on the body. Less wear on climb lines. Takes a bit to adjust to. But once there you are rewarded. Its hard to do DRT after that.

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

Yes 15', 5/8" steelcore w/macrograb has some weight to it! This is conifer land out here so it gets tons of use on the removals. I'm learning through all this. Seems my original post focused on one particular universal configuration. All your input is a reminder to dial in the best configuration possible for that particular job. Rope lanyard and handsaw instead of steelcore and 200 is a massive weight savings. More safety is of course always welcome. There was recently another barberchair incident where the climber couldn't relieve the pressure with a loaded up macrograb. I'm now seriously considering running a distel or similar on my steelcore. What do you guys think? I will search the forums on this.

I've carried my handsaw on the leg, hanging down the leg, crossdraw, etc. Think I've finally landed the sweet spot for me; high and rigid on the right hip. Like a good pistol holster it's an easy, natural draw and reholster and up closer on the body it seems the handle it out of the way and never gets a rope on it anymore. I'll try to attach a photo.

The rope lanyard does create an undesireable loop in the system but seems less of an issue in large open canopies, where I would use it most because of it's length. So far has worked well and is very versatile. I use a distel on it with it's positive grab and short length.

Thanks for sharing Saw dust. SRT for working instead of just access sounds brilliant! Gonna goof with it.

 

[Saw Dust Smoken]

climb

Hows the climbing going? Is the comfort level getting better? Have you tried much of the SRT styles?

 

[gitrdun_climbr]

thumbs up

Oh yeah, only took a couple of months for everything to become natural and comfortable again.

The VT works even better with a little wear (self-tails less). Binds far less than the Distel I was using and is obviously light years ahead of a blakes.

The Ergovation has gotten so comfortable, although it is a bit too big for me. If ordering, remember that it runs slightly larger than what they describe in the chart. I have a 32" waist and went with a medium. All settings are maxed out so a small would have been better.

Will stick with the handsaw location. The draw and reholster is fast and effortless.

I generally do alot of conifer work so I do use single line for access sometimes but still haven't incorporated it into working much. I've got a couple buddies who have been more and more so there's definitly something to it.

Happy New Year everyone!

 

[Scrat]

Oh yeah, only took a couple of months for everything to become natural and comfortable again.

The VT works even better with a little wear (self-tails less). Binds far less than the Distel I was using and is obviously light years ahead of a blakes.

The Ergovation has gotten so comfortable, although it is a bit too big for me. If ordering, remember that it runs slightly larger than what they describe in the chart. I have a 32" waist and went with a medium. All settings are maxed out so a small would have been better.

Will stick with the handsaw location. The draw and reholster is fast and effortless.

I generally do alot of conifer work so I do use single line for access sometimes but still haven't incorporated it into working much. I've got a couple buddies who have been more and more so there's definitly something to it.

Happy New Year everyone!

Dude,
Everything on your ergo is the same whether it is small, medium, or large. Just the waist Pad is different so you can call Buckingham direct and just order the small waist pad and swap the rest over! If I remember correctly it is about a hundred bucks.
Good luck
Scrat