Collection of Huge Old Logs

[Djay]

I am a retired educator-Football Coach, Math Teacher, Administrator. Over the years I have driven my wife crazy with my love affair with wood timber--especially local walnut (90%), maple, and cedar. I have collected some of the hugest pieces ever seen. Some of these specimens are in the neighborhood of 48" and larger diameters and up to 30' long. Many have spalted sections, many have beautiful burls. I'm guessing but I probably have collected around 60 - 70 logs of varying width and lengths. I know this sounds almost unbelievable but...I am now retired and would like to slowly cut up and either sell or use this wood for projects. The major issue I realize I will be dealing with is in regards to --wire and/or nails--embedded in the wood. Beyond that:

The question(s) is 1) Where do I start? 2) How do I cut such pieces? 3) What is the best mill I can use to begin such an operation? (I have investigated many types of mills and they all seem to say"I'm the best!!While I'm sure they are all great, the problem I'm having is fitting these huge logs into the throat of the system.) 4) What problems should I expect to run into and how do I solve them? 5) Is there a "best" approach to cutting and marketing without killing myself (I want to enjoy my retirement). 6) I would love hearing about any other issues I should know about regarding this lifetime project...

I have been approached by numerous people to purchase everything from slabs (many) to plain boards to whole logs.

 

[woodshop]

The question(s) is 1) Where do I start? 2) How do I cut such pieces? I have been approached by numerous people to purchase everything from slabs (many) to plain boards to whole logs.

Welcome to AS. I envy your stash of logs, and apparently the time to slice them up now that you are retired. Pretty tall order, I'll tackle questions 1 and 2 for starters. You're already on the right track with question 1, you're asking questions from those who mill. I would spend a good bit of time using the search option and check out the many milling and logging threads on AS. That way you could fine tune your questions to be a bit less general and thus maybe get some more pertinent answers. As for question two, how to slice them up, short answer is of course that depends on many factors. Not the least of which are species and how will the wood from a particular log be used. Example, if you have some white oak, and you're looking to sell some of it and get the most bang for the buck, you might consider quarter sawing it. Less wood, but more valuable to woodworkers like myself. If you have some logs with a crotch, you need to slice that so you get the most crotch figure from it. Again, that would make the boards more valuable IF that's what you are looking for. If you are going to sell the wood for grade, you need to be careful to cut long enough lengths. There is a big difference on paper between a 7ft long clear cherry board and and 8 1/2 ft long clear cherry board. Lots of variables. There are guys on here with much more expertise than I concerning the rest of your questions.

Again, welcome to AS

 

[Sawyer Rob]

For logs that are big in diameter, i'd first have to decide what i wanted to end up with. If you want them sawn right into boards, then i'd be looking at a Peterson swing mill. (or hireing someone with one)

"If" you want them sawn into big slabs, then i'd be looking at the biggest chain saw mill i could find.

Another option would be to quarter saw the logs free hand with a chainsaw, and saw the quarters with a bandmill... (this is what i do)

Last option is, to quarter them with a chainsaw, and hire someone to come in with a bandsaw and mill the quarters into what you want...

What kind of condition are these logs in, if they have been setting a while???? The longer a log lays around, generally the lower the grade inside.

Rob

 

[Djay]

Log Collection

Thanks, "woodshop"! I appreciate your quick response and interest. I'm sure this was not your intention but...I feel even more amateurish now than ever.

The "crotch" wood you mention...this, too, may sound unbelievable but I have a 14' length of walnut which, if possiblle, looks like it could be cut into at least 3 pieces of 2" thick slabs measuring about 72" square. Of course, it will have to be cut on a slant. Anyway, forgive me if this sounds like bragging.

With respect to question 2...I guess what I'm asking is...as you look at a log, you say to yourself...this "should be" a beautiful piece (or two or three) of crotch wood. How do I cut it to maximize the potential of the pieces I expect (so I don't screw it up)? Is this just part of the risk you take when cutting timber? Is there away to remove some or much of that risk?

Also, is there a right or a wrong way of "quarter sawing? What is the best way to do it and what tools do I use?

Anyway, thanks again for your welcome and insight. I will persue further questions on the search cue.
Djay

 

[Djay]

Huge Logs

Thanks, Rob:
Great information. This business of quarter sawing...is the ultimate purpose to make boards or...? Is this Petersen Swing Mill something an amateur would buy or...? Thanks again...this gives me some great ideas.
Djay

 

[Ianab]

Hi Djay

Do a Google search on Swingblade mills. The 2 main ones are Lucas and Peterson. They are both available in the USA.

Advantages are their ability to cut BIG logs without much in the way of support equipment. Cutting big logs you can set the mill up by yourself around the log where it sits on the ground. Mill packs up and loads onto the back of a pickup / small trailer. The log doesn't move at all as you saw it. Quartersaw or flatsaw board as you wish.
Cutting full width slabs is an option by replacing the circle blade with a BIG chainsaw bar, giving you a 5ft / 24hp chainsaw mill on rails

As an amateur / hobby thing, well they are probably the easiest mill to learn and operate. A days training with a rep would be ideal, but if you read the book / watch the video, you can go and saw a log. As far as cost goes, well if you compare it to a fishing boat / snowmobile / quadbike etc.. then it's affordable. I have an older model Peterson thats powered by a big chainsaw powerhead. Works great. New ones are even better with various 4 stroke engines up to about 27 hp.

To clarify.. Quarter sawn vs Flat sawn. A quarter sawn board runs from bark on one edge, to pith on the other edge. The growth rings run 90 deg to the board. Flat sawn board is cut parallel to the bark, the growth rings run across the end of the board. There are various reasons for cutting boards in either orientation. The stability and figure are different, and you need to decide which is the best option for the species / log you are cutting. With a conventional US style bandsaw Q-sawing a log is a lot more work. With a swingblade it's just a matter of cutting an 8x1 or a 1x8.

Yes I'm biased,

Cheers

Ian

 

[Sprig]

Heya and welcome, sounds like you have an interesting stash of potentially valuable wood for years of projects. The only reason I am commenting here is because I disagree with chainsawing any of the high value woods (like the walnut), reason being is the wastage of the cut. If there is a decent mill in your area it that runs large bandsaws I would first check out if it is possible to truck them there to have them milled. Just the fact they are large makes me think this, and, as well, you will get experienced advice and a more productive harvest from them. I worked in a mill for over 10 years and know the value of proper milling, I just imagine too much waste in hacking them up with chainsaws to start with. With the oak btw, quartering and then milling smaller boards from there will give you beautiful edge grain lumber (where the grain is standing and the boards look striped), this is in my opinion some of the best flooring and cabinet material that ever was. As well, I would check out your state for shipyards too, many of the 'old school' wooden boat building places still have large bandsaws capable of dealing with your dimensions of logs. At least it was this way once around here, and the longer the better imo (boards). This could be a good thing all around as you may get what you want and need to use and someone else will make something beautiful with what they get in return. I have a love of nice wood and am not sure if I have expressed myself clearly, but in closing my babble I think you should look into saving yourself some time and money milling yourself, have a good look at other options, and get to building something nice or two sooner. Then again, you could always buy a couple of old large 'two handlers' and dig a ripping pit and hire the neighbors kids for the summer. There is enough good knowlege here to help ya keep them sharp too. It'd keep them outta trouble.

My 0.02$ fer the night, I go now.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Howz about some pics of yer stash?

As it's been said, there are 100 ways to skin this cat. It's hard to give a straight answer with out knowing exactly what you intend to do with your material. My advise is to not get in a big hurry. Dig around your area for a while and see what turns up. I've stumbled across opportunities many times by just following the most unlikely leads. You do need to take care of your stock, though. Have you sealed the ends and are the off the ground? A log can last a good while treated properly.

Have fun and keep us posted!

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

If those big dudes were mine, this is what I would put through 'em. About $1000 invested, used 084 power head w/ 72" GB mill. I slab the logs deep on the initial cut and quarter saw the cants on a band mill. The heart of the log is slabed with the natural edges on both sides.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

In reguards to metal in the logs, I have handheld metal detector similar to the ones airport screeners use. I typically will pick up metal up to 12" deep. When I have the $$ I plan to get a more powerful detector. At $70 a loop for a 72" bar, replacing chain can get expensive.

 

[woodshop]

With respect to question 2...I guess what I'm asking is...as you look at a log, you say to yourself...this "should be" a beautiful piece (or two or three) of crotch wood. How do I cut it to maximize the potential of the pieces I expect (so I don't screw it up)?

You will get some crotch figure no matter what orientation you slice through the crotch, but I have found I get more figure when slicing in the same plane as the two branches going out from the tree that made the crotch, rather than 90 degrees to them. I agree with Sprig in that chainsawing will definitely waste more of your wood with its 1/4 inch kerf. In general, if you're slicing 4/4 or 5/4, think of getting at extra board (or two) from a 12-14 inch dia log using a bandmill instead of a chainsaw mill. I'm not familiar enough with swing mills, but I know their kerf is wider than a bandmill. My point is that with high value stuff like figured wood or even a more valuable species like cherry, that could be an extra $50-100 worth of lumber (retail)from that log.

As aggie says, probably the most important thing you can do for now is keep that pile from degrading as it waits for a mill. A log full of beetles, no matter what species or how valuable it WOULD have been, is just firewood. Are these logs off the ground? How dry are they? How long have they been sitting around? Then, once you have them sliced up and stickered and dried, keeping the beetles and rot away from your stored lumber piles is your next task. I have over 5000 bd ft of various species stored various places, and its an on going job keeping that wood dry, rot free and bug free. Then, the real valuable stuff like a wide crotch figured board that could easily be worth over $100 has to be kept where somebody can't throw it in the back of thier truck in the middle of the night. Not trying to make this sound difficult, just letting you know that when you are talking about a lot of lumber, there are lots of details and logistics that come into play if you want to do it right.

keep us posted

 

[Djay]

Huge Logs

Hello Everyone:

WOW!!! I'm overwhelmed! I had no idea there were so many interested in this hobby/craft. I had to show these posts to my wife because she thinks I'm the only "wood nut" in the world. My wife still thinks I'm crazy...but she's sure now that I'm not the only one. Thanks for the great responses from everyone. There are so many I decided to do a single post and try to answer each individuals response. So...here goes...

Sawyer Rob: I'm pretty sure that I will be looking at creating a wide variety of "stuff". Some slabs, some board, some burled pieces, some quarter sawn, some blocks, etc. Right now I'm not even sure of the possibilities available. So...I'm going to play this slowly... At any rate in looks like I'll need to get a hold of both achainsaw mill as well as a bandsaw mill...each with it's own function and end results.

I'm not particularly interested in having someone else do the cutting unless I become convinced that I cannot do it myself.

Log condition: This varies...but I can tell you that our climate is very kind to dead wood...not a lot of moisture in the air for one. I have noted others in the area who have opened up long standing logs (local walnut in this case) with excellent results. Of course, some of the logs will be turned into fire wood but not many. At any rate, I certainly appreciate your response and look forward to hearing from you again as I proceed with the project.

Ianab: Interesting handle!! Thanks for your response. Always interested in a perspective from "Down-Under." Much good and needed information. I have, only recently looked at the swing blade mill setup upon advice from Rob. They seem pricey but...if they are my best options....However, I do like the idea of the chainsaw mill option along with the swingblade. Like Sprig says, I am concerned about the amount of waste involved by using a chainsaw...especially on the walnut...which is the majority of my "stash".
Sharing the info about Q-Sawn and Flat Sawn, etc. is worth our visit...Thanks so much. There is much more to think about than I originally thought. Keep in touch and feel free to respond about any future posts.

Sprig: Great advice...I will investigate the mills and local timber yards...we have a number of mills that cut and peel loads of timber for the log home industry. They may be a good source for what you are suggesting. Thanks for your 0.02 cents and please feel free to respond to future posts.

aggiewoodbutchr: Pics coming soon. I'm only just finding out what sort of things there are to do with this material. Could you suggest a way to treat the huge logs? I look forward to future posts. I have a fairly good metal detector but never gave it a thought using it for discovering nails in the wood...Thanks again. By the way tahnks for the pic of your mill...please translate 084 power head w/ 72" GB mill. What bandmill do you use?

woodshop: WOW!!! Thanks again. This is exactly the kind of info I've been looking for. What sort of bandmill do you use or recommend? What is the Widest blade a bandmill can use? Where these timbers have such a wide diameter, I'm worried (from what I've read) that the bandsaw blade cutting through these large logs tend to drift or wander creating a "wave" effect through the finished product. Thus, creating more work to remove the wave by planing. Thanks again for your response and keep in touch.

Thanks again to all.
Djay:bang:

 

[woodshop]

What sort of bandmill do you use or recommend? What is the Widest blade a bandmill can use? Where these timbers have such a wide diameter, I'm worried (from what I've read) that the bandsaw blade cutting through these large logs tend to drift or wander creating a "wave" effect through the finished product. Thus, creating more work to remove the wave by planing.
Djay:bang:

I use a small portable 50 lb bandmill called a Ripsaw, along with a csm with a 36" bar powered by a Husky 395XP. I slab the logs with the csm, which has a 32 inch max width cut, slicing the log into 14 inch wide cants, which is the max width of my Ripsaw, which I use to slice that cant into boards. Havn't seen your stash yet, but it sounds like you will need a bandmill much bigger than the Ripsaw. The Ripsaw was not designed to compete with the tow behind higher volume larger bandsaws. It's claim to fame is it is VERY portable and easy to set up, and can be taken back into the woods or neighbors yard right to the tree. Compared to a standard bandmill though, it is low volume and generally more hard work. But sounds like you need a much larger midsized or better band mill. As for what kind do I recommend, thats like asking me what kind of car you should buy. VW bug or Cadillac? Prices start at under $5k for a small one without wheels, and end up in the tens of thousands for a full blown fully hydraulic big horsepower commercial grade band mill. Just to throw a name out there, Timberking has nice mills for around $15K. As for worrying about a bandsaw making wavy cuts, don't. They are designed to slice logs. If your blade doesn't have enough tension, or is dull, sure it will start to wander and not cut strait. It may then also get hot and bind or even break. But as long as you have it set up right that is not a problem.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

aggiewoodbutchr: Pics coming soon. I'm only just finding out what sort of things there are to do with this material. Could you suggest a way to treat the huge logs? I look forward to future posts. I have a fairly good metal detector but never gave it a thought using it for discovering nails in the wood...Thanks again. By the way tahnks for the pic of your mill...please translate 084 power head w/ 72" GB mill. What bandmill do you use?

There have been several great threads on here on how to preserve your logs. The first thing you should do is seal the ends with a wax emulsion product such as Anchorseal or several coats of latex paint. It's not the end of the world if they aren't but it will prevent a lot of material on the ends from checking. I try to keep them in a shaded area as much as possible to slow the drying process on the outside of the log. Many mills actually place water sprinklers on stacks of logs if they are going to be stored for any period of time. This prevents the sides of the logs from splitting due to the outside of the log shrinking faster than the inside. Also, as it's been said, keep them off the ground a foot or so. This will prevent rot from setting in and help keep bugs out.

084 power head = Stihl 084AV- 121cc chainsaw engine

72" GB mill = 6 foot long guide bar with a milling attachment manufactured by GB

The bandmill I use can be seen here.
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=32162

It may be too late but be careful. This stuff is addicting.

 

[Ianab]

Hi Djay

Main reason I spoke up about the swingblades is that they are designed for big logs. Most of the portable bandsaw mills seem to max out around 36", and you will want full hydralics to load and move logs that size easily and safely. After that you are into splitting big logs with chainsaws, can be done, but it's hard work.
In NZ and Australia where the mills come from 48" isn't a big log and they will often be in locations where it's difficult to extract the log. Some operators fly in the mill by helicopter, cut up a tree where it lays, and fly the mill and lumber out again. Peterson have custom built some large frame mills to handle logs 9ft diameter.

Dont compare the swingblades to a manual bandmill, they will produce like a fully hydralic bandmill, especially with bigger logs, and look a lot cheaper when compared to them.

If you were cutting smaller logs, then a manual bandsaw might be a good option.

If you only have a few big logs, then chainsaw slabbing is hard work, but it can be done.

If you have a lot of big logs then the swingblade makes sense. I assume you have sources of more logs in the future? The portablility of the swingblades also give you the option to easily move the mill to a downed tree thats in a difficult location. I've hauled mine through swamps and over hills behind a quad bike to get to otherwise inaccesible logs.

Be warned, if you go any further you will be hooked

Cheers

Ian

 

[Djay]

Huge Logs

Woodshop:
Hello again.
I like your ideas and am considering your methods. First of all, at 60 years young, I don't feel like it is a wise financial decision to invest in a 20 or 30 thousand dollar machine. Secondly, I would like to make the best out of the timber I have without going out for more. It is beyond the scope of my present goals. Thirdly, I don't feel physically healthy enough to move around these monsters (at least not any more than necessary).

So...I've been considering the most feasible portable way of handlig this project. It seems to me that it would be in my best interest to break down the timber in smaller more managable pieces without damaging the potential each of the logs has. Your method seems to do just that.

I have investigated this "Ripsaw". Is yours the Ripsaw or the XL4 model?

Djay

 

[woodshop]

Woodshop:
Hello again.
I like your ideas and am considering your methods.
-----------------
I have investigated this "Ripsaw". Is yours the Ripsaw or the XL4 model?

Djay

I have the smaller hand held Ripsaw. Just remember though, as I said, it is not designed to mill a LOT of timber in a day like some of the larger band mills on rails. It has its niche, that being extreme portability and relatively inexpensive initial cost. But also its limitations, that being only a 14 inch wide max cut. Along with my chainsaw mill, thats plenty for me. but it might not be for others. With a lot of work, I have milled 48 inch wide trees using the csm and Ripsaw. But it is a lot of work. If you have at it, on a good day, you can mill up 400 bd ft of lumber with a Ripsaw and csm combo, but thats a hard days work. If your looking to mill that kind of volume day after day, you will need a bigger mill, as the Ripsaw just isn't designed for that kind of volume. Not trying to steer you awaw from it, just making sure you understand the realities of a small hand held bandmill compared to a midsized Woodmizer or Timberking on rails. Apples and oranges.

However, if you can't afford a bigger mill, and are still interested in milling on the cheap so to speak, as I do, when you jump on the Ripsaw.com website, click on "sawmills and accessories", and read my article posted there. If you have any more questions, you can always ask here or email me.

 

[woodshop]

Ianab, I do like the protability of the swing mills... another saw that has a unique niche, but I just can't afford one any more than I can afford a $15K bandmill. Maybe in 7 years when I retire.

 

[flht01]

...
I have investigated this "Ripsaw"
...

Djay

Welcome to the board, Djay. I've been following this post and was wondering if you've come to a conclusion on your milling methods? Oh, by the way, it's too late to avoid sawdust fever. Before long, the price tags hanging off those new mills will seem like a bargin.:biggrinbounce2:

I spent some time talking with "woodshop" about the Ripsaw and after reviewing a great thread
http://www.arboristsite.com/showthread.php?t=19709
decided to buy one. He's got a process in place that is very efficient and works well. I'm working towards getting organized (slowly) and working through a few learning curves etc... and still manage to get a few boards stacked before the end of the day. My goal with this set-up is milling enough hardwood for a few woodworking projects. I felt like the Ripsaw along with a chain-saw mill is a great combination to do this.

Kevin