confused about "line trees" ---

[Molecule]

Anyone have any guidance on trimming line trees (trees whose root crown straddles a property line)

As I understand it, if a root crown is entirely on me, then it's all my tree, and I can cut and hack away at the tree, including parts that overhang my neighbor at will, (as long as I don't create a dangerous situation for my neighbor, and don't go onto my neighbor's property without his permission.)

Similarly, if a root crown is on my neighbor, then it's all my neighbor's tree, and any branches and roots of "his" tree which "encroach" on me, e.g. come across my property line, then I have an absolute right to cut them back, and defend myself from encroachments. This right to defend myself from encroachments may possibly even mean, that I have a right to remove a dangerous situation on my property, even if I then create another dangerous situation for my neighbor -- upsetting the balance of a tree so that it may fall on his house, or removing structural support of its roots, so that a windstorm might drop it on his house, etc.

But, what happens for the case of an "inbetween tree" e.g. a "line tree," e.g. one whose root crown straddles a property line. I can't find any legal cases which are clear. It appears both property owners own the tree as "tenants in common," which basically means, each of the two owners own 100% of the tree as a partnership, where one party is not permitted to act against the interest of the other. So, if I have a line tree, and want to remove branches which overhang my property, I may need permission of my neighbor. He might also be a tree hugger who thinks the tree is a "valuable" improvement to the property, maybe as a shade tree, and doesn't want any work done on it.

In order to drop a line tree outright, I would have to tresspass on my neighbor's property, so that might require permission ... but can I trim branches which overhang my property? Technically speaking, they are not encroaching, since I can't be encroached by something which I own, even if partially? Suppose that I want to trim back the branches on my side of the property line, to let in more sunlight, but doing so will kill the tree:? What then?

Anybody had experience with this?

 

[MasterBlaster]

Yah, but I can't tell ya any more than it's tricky territory, and you had best be carefull. Different areas have different rules 'bout that stuff. To really CYA you will probably hafta talk to an assh... err, lawyer.

 

[geofore]

treeline

What's wrong with talking to the neighbor about it first? I take it there is nothing wrong with the tree but you want more sunlight and as yet haven't spoken to the other party. Talk to the neighbor first then you'll know where you stand. You don't know if you have a problem with the neighbor until you ask about removing/trimming the tree. You and the neighbor don't get along get another tree removal guy to talk to the neighbor. First find out if they have a problem with you trimming/removing the tree before you start to worry about it.

 

[tnttreeman]

Even if you do talk to the neighbor, try to get it in writing before doing the work. Some tree guys, such as myself, won't get in the middle of a line dispute without everything in writing from both sides. This can be a very sticky issue and can easily end up in court. In a back issue of Tree Care Industry magazine an arborist recalled such a case where trees were trimmed on a property line (in California, I believe) and one of the line neighbors claimed it devalued their property, etc., etc., and took both the tree company and the other neighbor to court. If memory serves me correctly, the lawsuit was in the neighborhood of $25,000. The owner who took suit also won the case.
Please take caution, consult an attorney if there is a problem, and let any tree company who is going to undertake the work know the issues so they are not unsuspecting victims themselves.

 

[Molecule]

mean trees-??

that's pretty much what I'm coming up with -- line trees can be, no ... are, jus plain dang nasty. If the root crown is clearly on side, or the other, then the lines of what you can do and can't do, are pretty clean. but, straddle a property line, and wham ... it's lawyer time.

the adjoining owner is mean as #&!!. To date, his "stunts" have been

(A) behind an overgrown (12') yew hedge on the subject property, he's moved my father's T-post fence (not his fence) so as to add a roughly foot to his property, without any notice to my father, the owner of the fence. We could not see the relocation because the hedge was so dense, and we just assumed a good neighbor wouldn't do that kind of thing.

(B) not content there, he then planted 6 of the meanest grape vines you ever saw, in a tidy little row 7" inside the relocated fence, spaced at 5-6 feet, which after a few years finally overtook the hedge. This guy is a fastidious gardner, who trimmed back every little branch of the yew tree which encroached onto his property, but when these vines "encroached," he let them take off. (I consider it highly improbable that a few birds decided to flutter themselves 7" inward toward thick jew hedge, to do their seed droppings midair, with even 5 to 6 ft spacing, 6 in a row, all of the same variety of vine. I believe someone stuck their little hands thru the wire fence (2x6 openings at the bottom, 6x6 opening at the top), and planted those vines at 7" off the fence.)

(C) on a large and old poplar tree (50"+DBH x 90-100' ht, with health problems) e.g. one of the line trees in question, he planted or maintained (as in trimmed everywhere else but not there) a virginia creeper, whose trunk eventually grew to 4" dia and overtook half of the tree. If and when this tree is knocked down by wind, etc. it will be a threat to my father's house, but not to the neighbor's house. When the creeper finally came round to my side of the tree, where I could grab hold of it, and pull it down, he came running out of his house to try and stop me. I was standing next to my diesel running the hydraulic winch, so just pretended I couldn't hear him, as I warned him to get away and tried to wave him off. (It was dangerous.) He got right in the line of the pull, in a personal effort to stop me, but by that time I had already pulled 3/4 of the vine mass over to my side, so I took a chance that no braches would come down him, and decided to continue. He was really pi$$ed off at me for my success in getting that thing down. (I think it is easier to trim trash and haul a 30" black gum, than bundle cut and haul a 4" Virginia creeper.

(D) then he plants evergreens so as to block morning sunlight on my father's house and property. (Who would have known that the morning sunlight is the sunlight which lifts the overnight moisture out of a house, and thus prevents the growth of molds.)

And, yes, he's a "god-fearing" blue-eyed Republican, who, unlike all those "welfare queens who gang-raped the U.S. Military Industrial Complex" back when, has been drawing a massive Social Security Disability check ever since I've known him, for a "bad back" (but he can sure roto-till his 50' x 75' vegetable garden year after year just fine), and who'se wife has been drawing a relatively huge military-style pension from the CIA (not a covert agent)

(E) last but not least, the morning after I finally banded the vines which had overtaken the yews and had finally pull them out, with the winch again, he stepped out onto his back doorstep and yelled at me (at first, at first I couldn't understand what he was saying, as he yelled so loud, it just frightened me -- at first I thought someone must have been hurt to yell like that) : "Why don't you just move on [racial slur]-boy." He then slammed the back door, and disappeared. When I deciphered what had just been yelled to me, I could almost hear him say under his breath to his wife, "We got covenants in this neighborhood you know!"

 

[geofore]

problem neighbor

Now we know there is a problem and the guy next door really needs a hobby to keep him occupied. www.lawyers.com and ask questions. Another place to look is on the Point of Begining (POB) www.i-boards.com/bnp/pob as a surveyor may have to come out to find the pins for the property line at some point. Above all don't let the guy next door bulls... you into giving up.

 

[trailerguy]

mean trees

It sounds like he's trying to put a barrior between himself and a neighbor he dislikes. This guy must leave the premisses occasionaly. Some of your problems could be solved by the descreet application of concentrated "Round Up" on the bark. A light scuffing with a wire brush or similiar object first would enhance the results. If the vines and small trees were already dead he shouldn't have a problem with removal. Even moving the fence won't do him any good if nothing grows there, .

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

first get a survey of the property to verify the lotline markers.

 

[hobby climber]

Depending on your location, you can go to the local Court House and see if they have a "law library" there. If so, then the person there should be able to help you out with any legal question you may have. Hope this helps. HC

 

[thesytniks]

The way I see all this is it just does not matter how beautiful you're yard is,or how
beautiful you're house is. When It comes right down to life..If you're neighbor is
not neighborly, it can play havic with you're peace of mind.. By the way. Good
luck, and God bless..

 

[ray benson]

And, yes, he's a "god-fearing" blue-eyed Republican

Hey, Lets not pick on blue eyed Republicans. lol If you were cutting next to my house I would offer you something to drink , help you if needed and be willing take the big pieces off your hands.And of course any decent firewood you cut in the area you could drop off in as big of pieces as you could manage.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

...And of course any decent firewood you cut in the area you could drop off in as big of pieces as you could manage.

Maybe we should have a "will take free firewood" listing.

Post your name, address, Phone number and your freindly nieghborhood tree people will give you all the poplar and willow you want.

 

[Lumberjacked]

yeah no picking on blue eyed republicans...haha. In forestry (the woods) if the tree at it's DBH (diameter at breast height 4.5ft) is more then half on your property then it is legally yours. I know you dont live in the woods but I can not imagine that it is too different in terms of ownership. Another option would to be call a tree serive that offers risk assesment, have them assess your tree. If it is deemed hazzordous by a professional tell your neighbor that you have this assesment and if it is his tree and it falls on your property and causes damage then he is liable. Goodluck!

 

[TREEWRK]

where I'm from the power company has 25ft eavesment form the center line in the road
if you have a sidewalk with grass then the road it could be a town tree check your
property deed

 

[PTS]

Little disclaimer: I am a full time certified police officer in Iowa and a Tree Care Company owner/operator.


I have only run into this a few times and as you can imagine I deal with it both as a cop an as a tree care professional.

In Iowa the law states that a property line is infinitely tall so in other words it is an imaginary line that separates the property at any vertical level. That being said anything on your side of the property line is considered yours whether or not the tree is in the neighbors yard if it crosses the line it is yours. So you can do anything you want with your part of the tree. So if you as a customer or land owner want anything over your property line cut you can do so even if it makes the neighbors tree look terrible because that part is yours.

Now that being said I would also advise that upsetting your neighbor may not be the best idea. In only one situation have I been forced as a tree care professional to cut a tree "vertical up the property line" when the neighbor really didn't want it cut. Neighbor was mad but thank goodness not at us. They understood the law they were just disappointed the tree was cut at all.

Hope that helps. I would just suggest checking city ordinances which are probably in place in most if not every city you are working in and check under state code for tree care in your are.

 

[Molecule]

common enemy doctrine might apply ...

In the case of floodwater, there is a doctrine that an owner is allowed to defend his property from loss by flooding, "when the creek rises." But, in defending his property, e.g. by building a berm or levee on his side of the creek, that owner is pushing the volume of floodwater "over," onto his neighbor's side of the creek, who then has a larger task of defending his property. Under this ancient common law doctrine, called "common enemy doctrine," both owners are allowed to continue to in their defensive measures (until their actions start impacting the general public, such as for example causing a road to flood).

By analogy, the same common-enemy principle could be appied to a diseased line tree. So here is what could happen. I could decide that I need to defend my family and property, by making a cut in the trunk at breast height right up to 1/2" of my property line, but no more than 1/2 the diameter of the tree.. (I'd have a surveyor carefully mark the property line in the tree.) I would then jam a piece of plywood into the kerf, creating a mechanical situation which increases the probability that the tree will fall onto my neighbor, rather than on me during a wind storm. When the wind blows toward me, the plywood would (hopefully) hold the compression, and the backstrap on my neighbor would hold the tree in place. But, when the tree blows toward my neighbor, there would be no backstrap holding the tree (the plywood would not hold in tension), and the massive tree would fall on him, his familly members, his house, etc.

So, obviously, that's not too cool a solution ... but it might be a way to get his attention, if I explained in a letter sent certified mail return receipt, that in about a months time, I would be rendering his house and property unsafe by making precision cuts on my sides of the line trees ... but he would probably see that I was making an empty threat ... or maybe he would sell it.

ughhh! line trees!

 

[treeseer]

(C) on a large and old poplar tree (50"+DBH x 90-100' ht, with health problems) He got right in the line of the pull, in a personal effort to stop me, but by that time I had already pulled 3/4 of the vine mass over to my side, so I took a chance that no braches would come down him, and decided to continue.

From this it sounds like the worst problem that tree has is the guy using the diesel winch to pull his neighbor's vine out of their shared tree.
1. Va creeper does not twine and strangle trees; it just hangs there. You your daddy's neighbor for no good reason.
2. Define "health problems". What are you talking about? How many of these "problems" are caused by the abuse of the roots on your side of the fence?
3. "Each landowner upon whose land any part of a trunk of a tree stands has an interest in that tree...not to unreasonably injure or destroy the whole...the owner of the other portion shall not destroy the tree."
That's the law; you'd best not break it (or the branches, with your winch.)

I'm sorry your neighbor is so hard to live with, but your attitude does not seem to be helping much. Try an adjustment; work together to make the tree more of an asset to both properties.