Crappy Stihl Cylinder - Looks like ChiCom Garbage!!!

[Erick]

BTW I will be out most of the day (you guys do realize it's mothers day right??) but I will be back later to check in.... didn't want to be accused of drive by posting.





Of course some of you already know the rest of the story.

 

[FATGUY]

Valid question..so the antena is up...and if we don't hear or see anymore..then this will be as I suspect..an anomoly.



Yes..I saw AND I know what I'm looking at. I spent my early years as a Manufacturing Engineer servicing a Cast Iron, Cast Steel, AND Cast Aluminum Foundry & Machining the resultant castings...and probably one of the first in this country to use "part probing" on a CNC Horizontal Milling machine to adjust programs for casting flaws....specialized in applying CNC to help supplement the then dying art of Pattern making. Also spent 25plus year racing motorcycles(MX and other offroad stuff)..matched many a port in those early days. Especially on those 125-250 Two strokes from Spain.

If that melt had issues or the mold failed to function properly ( Obviously there is Hydrogen Porosity all thru it and issues along the Parting Line both symtomatic of the origional issue) my bet is the casting is dimensionally off a bit as well. So when fixtured, all things done from that point down stream have a higher probability of being off.



Also a valid question. We will wait and see. My bet is another cylinder will be on the way..and then this turns into YET Another a Stihl customer support success story, right?

But to me the bottom line is all manufacturing processes are going to have parts go bad from time to time. The QA process catches some and customers others. To this point in time ONE cylinder out of thousands and thousands from Stihl stumbled into the hands of someone (influential on this BB) who posted that pic.....until there is a trend, this is WAY over blown. When others find similar issues..then we can start making speculations about Stihl's QA..until then? I'm waiting for ANY real evidence that would prove this is the norm and not an anomoly.

I appreciate your expertise on this subject. I've worked with castings a fair amount( both machining them while in my apprenticeship, and later building molds) and while I have nowhere the qualifications that you do, it has been my experience that there is not usually just one (Being a Stihlhead, I'd love to believe that) Having not examined the cylinder myself, it is difficult to determine whether it is the casting, or the machining that has gone bad. If the casting itself is at fault, it should not have been accepted, and likely the whole lot was this way (wonder why they didn't use lost foam molding?). If it was the machining, then yeah, in the best certified companies, one can get away. Also, as it has been pointed out, this is not the only Stihl model that had similar cylinder issues. (I believe someone also mentioned problems with the 460 cylinders)

 

[2000ssm6]

I can only hope you don't speak for Stihl, especially Stihl Manufacturing and QA. That much porosity should not be acceptable reguardless of "if it runs" or not. There are many other issues that porosity can point to and effect in both the service life of a casting and the accuracy of the down stream manufacturing processes that in turn effect service life. So....maybe I should ask you, a "Technician" with tons of experience..is this the norm or the exception??

I don't work for Stihl and will say for the 2000th time, it doesn't look good and should have been pulled. I'm a auto tech and see castings worse than these in electronic throttle bodies, advanced designed intakes(not like a small block), VVT cylinder heads(uses a shaft/actuator to control intake and exhaust timing). I'm talking some very expensive internal engine componets. When near Tom's at my last class, I asked several quesitons on these componets because we have to diagnose and replace them when they fail or start to fail. Teach mentioned that if it runs, operates properly, then these poor looking flashings on the casts are just that "looks". If the engineers decide it will cause problems in the future due to porosity or anything else, the mold will be changed or redesigned.

Out of all these cylinders made in 2008 and on, I haven't read of a single failure due to any of the casts pictured. Say they haven't been run hard or long enough and that's BS. We all know that along with home owners and loggers, the saws are distributed equally. When you see these cylinders starting to fail, you will see Stihl take action.

 

[ropensaddle]

No idea...:greenchainsaw:

And to you 15,000 something who view this....this Cylinder is STIHL just an Anomoly! Only ONE to this point in time! Keep that in mind...just one.

Thought the count so far was three and that some of the crude castings were found in the 660 and 460s also most saw men don't feel they have to tear down a new pro saw to inspect quality which may soon change. Then what will happen to the count?

 

[2000ssm6]

Thought the count so far was three and that some of the crude castings were found in the 660 and 460s also most saw men don't feel they have to tear down a new pro saw to inspect quality which may soon change. Then what will happen to the count?

How many do you predict will be tearing down their saws?

 

[blsnelling]

All for one bad casting....out of millions.

...this Cylinder is STIHL just an Anomoly! Only ONE to this point in time! Keep that in mind...just one.

You obviously haven't read the whole thread. Several builders have reported this lack of quality in several different models of Pro Stihl saws? They were all Stihl castings, not Mahle. Try as you might, the facts are not that this is an anomoly.

Who ever made the post obout a mechanic swapping out a crappy aftermarket cylinder and charging the customer for a Mahle cylinder hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no difference in what Stihl is doing here.

And to all of you guys that say, "Well if it runs fine, it's not an issue.". Remind me to never let you work on anything I own. I expect more than that when I pay good money for something. I could have done exactly that with the 260 and sent it back ported and running. Instead, I chose to make it my problem and deal with it. I care about my work, my reputation, and won't compromise because it's "not my saw". Sure, I could have just put it back together and sent it back to the owner and let him deal with it. I chose not to. Did I have to? No. I chose to. I'm doing the guy a favor and he's greatful for it and has thanked me for doing so.

And for all you guys that keep harping about no proof of performance issues, I guess you missed the post where the owner told me he was quite disappointed in the performance in the saw. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is down on power, but the owner sure wasn't happy with it.

Bottom line, you're fishing for straws. It's absolutely incredible that some of you would even attemp to defend this. It's because of people like you that corporations get away with it. You don't have to look very far back in history to see what happens when profit becomes more important that quality. You guys are enablers. Period.

At his point, I don't even know what I'm going to do with it. I will be putting the new P&C on the customers 260 reguardless. I may give it back to the dealer just to see what Stihl will do about it. I'd like to know and I'm sure some of you would as well.

 

[blsnelling]

Out of all these cylinders made in 2008 and on, I haven't read of a single failure due to any of the casts pictured. Say they haven't been run hard or long enough and that's BS. We all know that along with home owners and loggers, the saws are distributed equally. When you see these cylinders starting to fail, you will see Stihl take action.

Talk to other builders about the performance of the 660. The power band is much narrower. Porting is different and quality is down like shown in this thread. Yes, performance is taking a hit as well.

 

[ropensaddle]

How many do you predict will be tearing down their saws?

2k step away from your stihl put the scrench down now lol!

 

[Jtheo]

I wonder how many as members are now dismantling their new stock stihls to see if they got the quality they paid for?

It has crossed my mind. I bought a new 361 the day before this thread started.:hmm3grin2orange:

 

[2000ssm6]

You obviously haven't read the whole thread. Several builders have reported this lack of quality in several different models of Pro Stihl saws? They were all Stihl castings, not Mahle. Try as you might, the facts are not that this is an anomoly.

Who ever made the post obout a mechanic swapping out a crappy aftermarket cylinder and charging the customer for a Mahle cylinder hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no difference in what Stihl is doing here.

And to all of you guys that say, "Well if it runs fine, it's not an issue.". Remind me to never let you work on anything I own. I expect more than that when I pay good money for something. I could have done exactly that with the 260 and sent it back ported and running. Instead, I chose to make it my problem and deal with it. I care about my work, my reputation, and won't compromise because it's "not my saw". Sure, I could have just put it back together and sent it back to the owner and let him deal with it. I chose not to. Did I have to? No. I chose to. I'm doing the guy a favor and he's greatful for it and has thanked me for doing so.

And for all you guys that keep harping about no proof of performance issues, I guess you missed the post where the owner told me he was quite disappointed in the performance in the saw. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is down on power, but the owner sure wasn't happy with it.

Bottom line, you're fishing for straws. It's absolutely incredible that some of you would even attemp to defend this. It's because of people like you that corporations get away with it. You don't have to look very far back in history to see what happens when profit becomes more important that quality. You guys are enablers. Period.

At his point, I don't even know what I'm going to do with it. I will be putting the new P&C on the customers 260 reguardless. I may give it back to the dealer just to see what Stihl will do about it. I'd like to know and I'm sure some of you would as well.

Good post Brad but you and I know a stock 260 isn't a screamer at all in stock form. Don't dare pick up a 5100 or 346 either. All the 026/260s I worked on or tuned got their muffler opened up and was a much better runner. I have had some that the owner didn't know how to tune a carb and this could be the case on the 260 you got. Might just be a lemon also, aside from the cylinder.

I'm not fishing for straws and hope Stihl keeps being #1, if "slipping" QC makes them hit rock bottom, I'll eat my crow. Until then, my next OPE might just be a Stihl. I just see a bunch of talk that isn't going to amount to squat. I'd be intrested to hear if Stihl emails any of these fellers back.

 

[2000ssm6]

2k step away from your stihl put the scrench down now lol!

You bashers are out of steam, LOLOLOL.

 

[weimedog]

You obviously haven't read the whole thread. Several builders have reported this lack of quality in several different models of Pro Stihl saws? They were all Stihl castings, not Mahle. Try as you might, the facts are not that this is an anomoly.

OK. So how many, so far; have see castings like this from Stihl's?

Who ever made the post obout a mechanic swapping out a crappy aftermarket cylinder and charging the customer for a Mahle cylinder hit the nail on the head. There is absolutely no difference in what Stihl is doing here.

I agree because for a premium price you expect premium components..otherwize you would buy a Homeowners Husqvarna! (Like I did)

And to all of you guys that say, "Well if it runs fine, it's not an issue.". Remind me to never let you work on anything I own. I expect more than that when I pay good money for something. I could have done exactly that with the 260 and sent it back ported and running. Instead, I chose to make it my problem and deal with it. I care about my work, my reputation, and won't compromise because it's "not my saw". Sure, I could have just put it back together and sent it back to the owner and let him deal with it. I chose not to. Did I have to? No. I chose to. I'm doing the guy a favor and he's greatful for it and has thanked me for doing so.

To the "technicians" of the world..that first line is dead on.
Good stuff for the rest of this section as well...wish the guy who replaced the Torque Amplifier on my 1066 felt that way!!!

And for all you guys that keep harping about no proof of performance issues, I guess you missed the post where the owner told me he was quite disappointed in the performance in the saw. I know, that doesn't necessarily mean that it is down on power, but the owner sure wasn't happy with it.

Not suprised looking at that port...and how long would the ring last? Why warrentee's exist.

Bottom line, you're fishing for straws. It's absolutely incredible that some of you would even attemp to defend this. It's because of people like you that corporations get away with it. You don't have to look very far back in history to see what happens when profit becomes more important that quality. You guys are enablers. Period.
.

No..I don't consider myself as an enabler. Just want to see a trend before condeming an entire company. A trend in fact vs. speculation. I'm not certain that has happened yet.

At his point, I don't even know what I'm going to do with it. I will be putting the new P&C on the customers 260 reguardless. I may give it back to the dealer just to see what Stihl will do about it. I'd like to know and I'm sure some of you would as well.

We will see....

 

[2000ssm6]

Talk to other builders about the performance of the 660. The power band is much narrower. Porting is different and quality is down like shown in this thread. Yes, performance is taking a hit as well.

If that's the case and I know some of those guys are the best in the biz, I'd like to see sales numbers for 660s from the last few years. That would be a good report to see but not sure if the tanked economy could fudge those numbers.

 

[2000ssm6]

It has crossed my mind. I bought a new 361 the day before this thread started.:hmm3grin2orange:

What are you waiting on? Go ahead and pull it so we can see......

 

[weimedog]

954..now 955

 

[thomas72]

Well it is about cutting cost and this is one way Stihl has to do this. It cost a good amount of money to produce a clean cylinder, and leaving it a little rough will lose a little power but it is still dependable. Remember this site is just a small fraction of the pro saw users and most of them will never open up a saw or worry about how fast it may cut. What most people want out of a working saw is for it to run and work properly. I am not saying I like to see quality drop in parts, but at least they are not making poor crank seals or bad intake boots. Every time I see a drop in quality I think of Maico. What a shame.

 

[weimedog]

Every time I see a drop in quality I think of Maico. What a shame.

Yep haa..Maico Breako...not many were around to experience the little things like 1978's rear hubs that would frag, or the 1970'e era Maico's where the ignition covers would blow off after a main seal would wheep a bit of gas into the ignition area..the 1974's soft gears...What about that first year single shocker....where the shock interfere'd with the frame???? I think the only bike that left riders pushing more were the Ossa Phantom's.

I had a 1974 AW400, 1977, 1978. They are the what moved me to KTM's from 1978 to 1982!! Good handlers...while they ran! Origional leading axle forks w/ enough travel to make a difference! 1981 was their year to shine.

When I moved from Kawasaki to Honda in 1985...It felt like home again. The Honda's picked the good stuff about handling off the Maico's..left the rest.

Anyone who needs to understand the problems related to porosity in castings only needs to go back into Maico history!

 

[bookerdog]

What are you waiting on? Go ahead and pull it so we can see......

Ya just couldn't stay away could ya. LMAO

 

[blsnelling]

OK. So how many, so far; have see castings like this from Stihl's?



I agree because for a premium price you expect premium components..otherwize you would buy a Homeowners Husqvarna! (Like I did)


To the "technicians" of the world..that first line is dead on.
Good stuff for the rest of this section as well...wish the guy who replaced the Torque Amplifier on my 1066 felt that way!!!




Not suprised looking at that port...and how long would the ring last? Why warrentee's exist.



No..I don't consider myself as an enabler. Just want to see a trend before condeming an entire company. A trend in fact vs. speculation. I'm not certain that has happened yet.



We will see....

A totally fair, honest, excellent post. How many? I think Timberwolf, TreeSlingr', Erick, and maybe more but can't remember right now. Erick has seen numberous 660s come back with torn up cylinders this year, and mentioned them earlier on the thread. The common thread through all of them? Stihl cylinders!

 

[whitedogone]

I would ask all the Naysayers (if that's what you'd call them) if they ordered a OEM clyinder from Stihl and this showed up if they would bolt it right up and say nothing. I for one wouldn't. WDO