Custom splitters

[nickblaze466]

Alright, i've been reading through this site for quite a while. i've been running my own tree service for just over a year but i've been cutting and splitting since i was about 5 with my old man. i've always built my own log splitters, my grandfather owns a tool and die company, and i've worked as a fabricator for a lot of years before finishing my degree. my dad is still in tool and die.

the more i look at the splitters you guys have up, and the prices you pay for them - i can/have built just about everything i've seen with the exception of the super split. but i've done it for a lot cheaper, generally bigger and heavier and everything has been highway towable. full suspension.

so i guess my q is how many of you guys buy custom stuff - phrased differently if i started turning these things out is there a market for them or do you guys only buy stuff mass produced?

i've built about 13 or 14 of 'em in the last couple years, 1 is at my house and its all i use. i've got a big hydraulic horizontal/vertical in the works and a couple smaller ones also in the works for friends who've seen mine run - but hell i could save you guys some money and put some cash in my pocket while i'm at it. just thinking....ideas?

 

[riskmiller]

I might be interested.......can you show us some that you've done?!? I'm 30 miles north of Columbus.

 

[nickblaze466]

yeah absolutely, i'll try to get a couple pictures of the one i use tonight and put them up to the site. i can do just about whatever you want, gear pumps 2 step pumps, any engine/ram combo, log lifters - i generally run hydraulic tanks quite a bit bigger than the ones i'm seeing. my splitter at home is just a 6.5hp intek with an 11gpm barnes and a 4x24 ram. i made a quad wedge out of some die plate and welded that to the beam. but the hydro tank is 8 gallons - like 'em to run cool.

the three i have in the shop now in various stages should be done this month or early next and i can snap some pics of them then, and i'll post up some tonight as well.

big one is a 6x30 HD tie rod at 3000psi operating pressure. hydraulic activation to raise and lower the beam (kinda hokey but the beam alone weighs in at close to 800lbs - so you just throw a lever and up it comes)

if you guys have any ideas at all though, throw 'em out there for me.

 

[chaikwa]

... i've always built my own log splitters... i can/have built just about everything i've seen... generally bigger and heavier and everything has been highway towable. full suspension... so i guess my q is how many of you guys buy custom stuff - phrased differently if i started turning these things out is there a market for them or do you guys only buy stuff mass produced?

I sincerely wish you all the best with this idea, however, let me tell you MY experiences from the last 15 years or so;
I am a fabricator and welder full time, own my own business and am a registered manufacturer of trailers with the NHTSA. I don't crank out trailers enmass, only 6 or 8 a year and they're always something custom and built for heavy loads. I also do a lot of sawmill maintenace and upgrading and I build a couple of splitters a year as well. What I have found is, in general, people don't want to pay the extra price for something that'll last forever. They're more than willing to 'settle' for something that they think will do the job because it's cheaper, then pay me to repair, rebuild or upgrade it later, and in the process spend more money than they would have if they'd have had me build it correctly in the first place. This arrangement is fine with me because I end up making about the same amount of profit as if I'd built whatever it is they wanted in the first place, but with much less of my labor involved.

A recent example of this is the guy last fall that wanted a trailer capable of carrying 18,000 pounds. I told him a ten ton capacity trailer would be his best bet and last his lifetime. He instead bought a 9 ton trailer because it was $3000 cheaper than what I quoted him for the ten tonner. He brought me this new trailer a week after he bought it to have me weld on stake pockets and additional D-rings for tie-downs. I also supplied and mounted a trailer tongue tool box. All these things were included in the quote for the trailer I proposed to him. In February the trailer he bought was back here for me to replace the jack because he backed into the trailer when the jack was frozen into the ground, bending the jack. I replaced the old jack with a new heavy duty 2 speed 25,000 pound jack, (which was what I spec'd for the trailer I quoted him in the first place). Today, the trailer is back at my shop to straighten the beaver tail, fix a crack in the tongue and "look at the frame because I think it's bending downward". Without todays problems, this guy has already spent $2450.00 in upgrades and repairs. I haven't looked at the trailer yet, but I'm sure straightening and reinforcing the frame and doing the other repairs will push the limit well over the $3000 mark!

Can the customer see the futility in this? Maybe, maybe not. But the bottom line is that most people just want something as cheap as they can get it, talk themselves into believing that something is 'beefy', then complain like crazy when it breaks and complain some more when whoever built it won't stand behind it.

I too can build things better than a lot of manufacturers, but unless I donate my time there's no way of doing it a lot cheaper. I consider my time to be donated whenever I make less than 50 an hour. When you figure in the cost of replacing welding machines, plasma machines, saws, mig and torch gases and consumables, 50 an hour becomes 30 an hour fast! Then general and product liability insurances sucks up another 10 to 15 an hour. That leaves about 15 an hour to pay myself, which ain't much.

I guess my point is; just be careful! One machine failure to the wrong, (right?), person could cost you your home and business, and I'd hate to see that happen to you or anyone else.

chaikwa.

 

[walexa07]

NickBlaze,

I am interested as well. Let's see what you've got. Where are you located?

Waylan

 

[nickblaze466]

I'm located in Toledo, Ohio. I have a fab shop in town and my dad owns one in Edwardsburg, Mi - north of south bend about 15 miles. Either place would work for a location.

I got a phone call and an order for 3 cords delivered sat (tomorow) last night, and i had nothing split up so i didn't get a chance to get the camera and snap some pics. I'll post them up today after i get off work - just need to pic up my digital camera and i'll be all set.

 

[splittah]

I would also be curious to know what grade of steel in the beams and parts you are using..


Myself at my age I have come to understand the wisdom of buying quality heavy equipment so I do NOT have to replace it ....ever.

however, as stated above... alot of people will squeeze a nickle till it screams.

 

[nickblaze466]

I understand about people being cheap, i'm really not looking at into mass-producing - more of a one order at a time thing like i've been doing. maybe make one up extra as a demo model of sorts? i don't know

depending on the type of splitter, what the customer wants, and the application generally determines what type of steel i use. regardless, the wedge is made out of a die steel. i'd have to give my old man a call and find out specs on what series he gave me for my wedge - and thats the pics you guys will see later on tonight.

this whole thing really caught my eye with that american log splitter thread - 3k for that thing seems outrageous. i know that i can build a better machine all around for a fraction of that cost - all the ones i've done so far i think i've only charge for 2, and it was just to cover the costs of some of the steel that i didn't have laying around.

 

[splittah]

I understand about people being cheap, i'm really not looking at into mass-producing - more of a one order at a time thing like i've been doing. maybe make one up extra as a demo model of sorts? i don't know

depending on the type of splitter, what the customer wants, and the application generally determines what type of steel i use. regardless, the wedge is made out of a die steel. i'd have to give my old man a call and find out specs on what series he gave me for my wedge - and thats the pics you guys will see later on tonight.

this whole thing really caught my eye with that american log splitter thread - 3k for that thing seems outrageous. i know that i can build a better machine all around for a fraction of that cost - all the ones i've done so far i think i've only charge for 2, and it was just to cover the costs of some of the steel that i didn't have laying around.

good luck with that.

 

[ToledoStorm]

I would love to see what you can make. I'm in your neck of the woods too.

 

[nickblaze466]

good luck with that.

(most of the steel i don't pay for, its given to me)

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Don't try running a business with that approach. Charge market price for what you do, or expect to go broke sooner or later.

 

[chaikwa]

Don't try running a business with that approach. Charge market price for what you do, or expect to go broke sooner or later.

Well the BIG problem with that approach is that sooner or later, you'll have to replace something that has broken and wasn't supposed to, and it's going to hurt if there's no capitol in the bank to buy replacement steel because there's no more free stuff, or no more free stuff of the kind you need. Believe me, "been there, done that"! And people, no matter if they're a friend or not, want their machines fixed NOW, and don't really care what kind of cash flow problems you might have. And God forbid if they get hurt using something you've built!

Sounds like nickblaze466 has a good idea about how to build things, I can't wait to see a few pics too. I just hate to see people that have an ounce of common sense and a lot of talent get screwed because of lack of foresight in the financial aspect of things.

chaikwa.

 

[blackdoggy]

DO NOT COUNT ON FREE (OR CHEAP) SCRAP STEEL FOR LONG! Scrap prices are rising daily and there are literally DOZENS of people out to get it before you do. Also when you start doing production work something WILL break down when you need it and it won't be cheap to fix usually and or you will be short of parts. I am currently building a overbuilt splitter and finding just the right part is a nightmare even though I have a small private scrap yard and thousands of nuts, bolts, screws, and welding rods at my disposal.

 

[aokpops]

I,am still mad at timber wolf for not hiring me for pud job . don,t get me wrong I,am a hard worker . they just don.t like anyone thinking . I. am all for it to kick them in the shins .costum splitters here we come .

 

[wdanforth]

Custom Buckeye Wood Splitter!

I in NE Ohio and would like to see what you can fabricate. Your free steel will not last. Friends of mine build projects with MANY Swajlok hydraulic parts but parts especially stainless steel fittings are get hard to come by even for the "insiders".

Your market is a tricky one. People that use splitters are doing so to save money on utility bills. I don't want to say cheap lets say conservative. The average home user will not wear out most log splitters (Home Depot's might be the exception - looks like a little toy). High rollers aren't splitting wood. But there are serious wood consumers (OWB owners) that will appreciate quality.

The other segment would be firewood sellers. Some pay BIG money for their equipment. That's where you might top them in quality and have room to undercut them.

Just make sure they are not called Wolverines!

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Well said. I think you nailed it.

Like it or not, the people who will pay for quality just because they prefer the joy of using a quality machine are a minority. First, because people who appreciate quality for its own sake are in the minority, and second because within that minority, most of us don't have the bucks to indulge our desire for a better product. We are forced to get the best we can afford, which is not usually the best available.


Realistically, my Huskee 35 ton will do everything I will ever need it to do, and probably outlast me. I'd be nuts to pay twice the price for a better machine, even if I had the money. Which I don't!

 

[nickblaze466]

Sorry for the delay fellas. I'm not counting on entirely free steel, even though I do have several sources and an abundance of steel but i also know scrap prices are going up through the roof. Even if i run out of completely free steel i can purchase all I need for a very good price. Pricing of the splitters will be based on this price, not free. You've all got good points, and i've definately thought about the pricing issue and with scrap being i think around 490/ton for pig iron its getting hard to come by. I'll be back over to my house tonight with my camera and get those pictures i promised for you.

i went over to indiana this weekend to pick up my boat and had some family trouble over there so i got a little side-tracked. i did speak to the old man about the grades of steel, beams are all grade 5. flanges vary with requirements for particular machine. Wedges are generally either 1020 or 1050 alloy, or if he has some die stock laying around we use that.

pics to come tomorow morn.

 

[nickblaze466]

Alright, here are a couple crappy pics taken with my cell phone of one of my splitters. this is the one at my house. its got about 100 cord through it so its not as bright and shiny as it once was. i'll actually get the camera out there this weekend and take some better ones.

other splitters are really making some progress as far as finishing them is concerned. they should be on the road and then in the woods here pretty soon, and then more pics to follow.

here ya go

this is a more basic. its an 11gpm barnes two-stage. 6.5 briggs intek 4x24 cylinder with a quad wedge. log lifter has been retro-fitted but not installed as of yet, need to get a new valve before i put it on.

 

[Turner-N-Burner]

Nick,
Have you looked at www.ramsplitter.com? His operation is similar to what you're talking about, but has grown a bit over the last few years. His prices have gone up considerably too.

I went with American because I thought it offered better quality, and because the ergonomics are far superior. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how fast the splitter is if you're too tired to keep up.

Design your splitters around the operator and you'll do well. Also remember that there is a significant shipping cost in the prices you've been seeing. ~10% in my case. Plus labor to crate & prep units for shipping. Add some time for order management and tracking, answering questions from tire kickers etc... it adds up fast!

If you keep your business to pickup only, you can skip that, and your customers can save.