Decisions, decisions! (Poll)

[Steve NW WI]

I'm gonna rework my heating system pretty soon - read this summer. I was pretty sold on another wood furnace down in the basement, but I'm trying to weigh all my options. Here's your shot at influencing my decisions, giving me ideas I haven't thought of yet, or just voting on a poll for the fun and giggles of it.

Here's the background. My house is a 16x70 trailer, sitting on a full basement with 7' floor to ceiling clearance, mostly unfinished. Water, gas, and furnace plumbing hang below the floor. I have an old Woodchuck wood furnace down there for my main heat, with a gas wall heater for emergency/vacation use, not normally in service. Upstairs is the factory LP forced air (have yet to light the pilot this year, but been close the last week of colder weather). Currently, I burn 8 cords a year on average. I have the house to myself and the dog and cat, but that's subject to change. The biggest problem with the current setup is even heat distribution. It's commonly close to 90 downstairs, and in the mid 60s in the furthest corners upstairs. I have 3 different fans running to minimize this right now.

Here's where it gets fun, fellow woodburners. I've got 3 options I've been thinking of:

Option 1: New wood furnace downstairs, possibly a combo wood/lp backup. I'd be installing a new chimney (SS, inside the house) for this, as well as having some low hanging ductwork near the stove to meet needed clearances. I THINK I could tie into the factory ductwork for upstairs, and run ducts to the ends of the basement for better heat distribution. Cost: $7000 give or take a grand probably.

Option 2: OWB, gasifier type. I've got lots of room for it, no restrictions here yet, and it'd keep wood mess outside along with not needing to get wood downstairs. Biggest drawback is cost, I'd be looking at a HX for the upstairs furnace, and a baseboard system downstairs. Probably north of $10K by the time it's all said and done.

Option 3: Big wood stove down in the basement for main heat (as above, new chimney. Had it beyond up to here with my current outside block and clay chimney), and a smaller wood stove upstairs. I'm guessing that the small stove would be real handy on those days when it's just a little chilly in spring and fall, but lighting the big stove takes too long to heat the upstairs, so you wind up cold or tempted to touch the dreaded slider in the hallway and hear that evil whoof sound. It'd also run when it's subzero outside and the bigger stove can't keep the whole place toasty. Downsides of this are 2 stoves and chimneys to maintain, and I'd probably wind up remodeling the downstairs to have the stove in the main area. Upside is it's probably the lowest cost option, especially with being able to do it in stages, instead of writing one big check.

Option 4: Your call. Let me know what you'd do differently than what I've already come up with.

 

[flyboy553]

Is your basement a walkout?

 

[lampmfg]

Can't go wrong with a Kuuma VaporFire if your looking for efficiency and an emissions friendly way to burn wood...

 

[Steve NW WI]

Ted - no it's not, but a few hours with a payloader and some retaining wall and it could be. I am considering doing just that this summer.

Garrett - If I go furnace, you guys are on the list, along with a couple others. We'll worry about narrowing down brands (of each option) once I get myself set on which direction I want to go.

 

[flyboy553]

The real problem I see with an OWB is that everything is outside. Always. Rain, sleet, snow, a gazillion mile per hour wind when it is 1,000 below zero, outside you go to fire up. On the other hand, they use more wood from what I understand, so there is that!:hmm3grin2orange: More cutting and splitting and best of all in your case, more STACKING!!:eek2: I know, you don't mind stacking. If you go OWB, then you for sure will need a wood shed right next to it to keep your wood(geez that sounds bad) out of the weather. Plus, the wood won't ever get a chance to dry off if it was put away wet(oie, that sounds bad too).
At least with your heat source in the basement, the wood you toss in it will have been in doors for some time, enough to dry whatever rain or snow was on it. A couple vents in the upstairs floors would be no big deal to install, and they would allow for better circulation throughout the entire home.

If you decide to make it a walkout, I want to be there when you do it. I want to see how your gonna do that with a payloader without knocking the walls down! lol

Ted

 

[Steve NW WI]

The real problem I see with an OWB is that everything is outside. Always. Rain, sleet, snow, a gazillion mile per hour wind when it is 1,000 below zero, outside you go to fire up. On the other hand, they use more wood from what I understand, so there is that!:hmm3grin2orange: More cutting and splitting and best of all in your case, more STACKING!!:eek2: I know, you don't mind stacking. If you go OWB, then you for sure will need a wood shed right next to it to keep your wood(geez that sounds bad) out of the weather. Plus, the wood won't ever get a chance to dry off if it was put away wet(oie, that sounds bad too).
At least with your heat source in the basement, the wood you toss in it will have been in doors for some time, enough to dry whatever rain or snow was on it. A couple vents in the upstairs floors would be no big deal to install, and they would allow for better circulation throughout the entire home.

If you decide to make it a walkout, I want to be there when you do it. I want to see how your gonna do that with a payloader without knocking the walls down! lol

Ted

Agreed on the indoor/outdoor thing. But, I've gotta be outside twice a day to leave and come home. There's not many days I don't go somewhere. Still, I like inside, and I like backing my butt up to a warm stove in the morning.

On the basement, I've got a ton of hours running a loader digging silage out of a bunk and haven't killed a retaining wall yet. BUT it could still be a "Hey Y'all Watch This" moment!

Let's hear some more opinions guys!

 

[zogger]

Oh well, it is boring

But these are my several erg's inputs:

Pull the exterior siding, fix all the leaks and cracks, they'll be some for sure....

Add another layer of exterior insulation-your choice, several options out there

pull windows, install triple panes, or interior add-on acrylics (work good really, easy to DIY) , or at least interior window quilts

reinstall siding, have fun at the corners

Cram more insulation in attic area..if no access..well same deal as the siding, but that could be an adventure, have to think on it. Extra add on pointier roof maybe, not sure how yours is built

that's it!

Your far away areas in the house are colder because they are losing heat. No other reason, conduction and convection. Fix that.

OK, here is the non boring part..you can still cut as much wood as you want! As much as you want. The deal now would be, you don't have to burn so much, so you can sell the surplus, which will in turn start to help to pay down your remodeling expense. In the meantime, enjoy the more even warmth. No need for any wood burner upgrade this way. Heck, you might get to downgrade actually.

It's winter, its below zee-ro, you want a sweater and a coat, not just a light jacket. Your home is the same. If the end rooms are cold, your home is shivering, give it a coat.

 

[haveawoody]

How about option #4 a small wood stove in the upstairs somewhere.
Cheapest of all options to put in and solves the cooler upstairs problem.

Check your attic insulation before you install anything.
Cold upstairs with a warm downstairs wood stove sounds like bad upstairs insulation.

 

[russhd1997]

Although it is the most expensive choice I like the OWB option. I only have to feed mine two times a day in the coldest weather, less often when it is warmer. I can and do burn any kind of wood in it. It also heats my hot water so there is no oil, gas or electric bill for that. The mess is outside as well as any fire hazard. You don't have to split your wood as small as you do for a wood stove.

 

[Ironworker]

2 stoves is the way to go if price is an issue, with 2 stoves you will also burn less wood, easier to maintain heat with 2 sources. I am in the process of adding a second stove as I am having a hard time keeping upstairs above 65 when it drops into lower teens, I have to keep feeding my stove just to keep temps up.

 

[woodman6666]

I will probably get slammed for this here but, If you plan on being there for a long time I would go geothermal basically free heat in the winter and free ac in the summer. I did geo on our new home and I am very pleased. Now I also have a few woodburning fireplaces in the house as well. which you could do for romance and to get your firewood fix. I would definately not do 2 woodburners as that just sounds like more maintenance than you have now. You are welcome to run by some time and check it out if you like.

 

[owbguy]

owb

owb is the way to go. keeping it all outside is a plus, not a minus.
I have a Central Boiler unit on a 2600 square foot house with full basement under it, and I get over 24 hours between fills here in southwest Michigan. I have 2 water heaters on it and a heat exchanger in my gfa plenum.
I'm a heathen, I know, but my wood is outside and uncovered....:waaaht: Been doing it this way for 8 seasons now. I load it once a day, about 3/4 full. Wet or dry wood, split or round, most of the time snow and all.
The mess is outside. Risk of fire almost nonexistent. Less splitting. All the heat (throughout the whole house) you can use and then some.
I debated a year before going with my system. My only regret is I wasted a year thinking about it....

 

[zogger]

I will probably get slammed for this here but, If you plan on being there for a long time I would go geothermal basically free heat in the winter and free ac in the summer. I did geo on our new home and I am very pleased. Now I also have a few woodburning fireplaces in the house as well. which you could do for romance and to get your firewood fix. I would definately not do 2 woodburners as that just sounds like more maintenance than you have now. You are welcome to run by some time and check it out if you like.

Do a write up on your rig! Geothermal is way cool, no slams here.

 

[Chris-PA]

2 stove plan - it requires no power to run. We have a second smaller stove upstairs, and it is great for "shoulder season" as well as deep cold where you want more output. It also gives you something to do with all those odd length rounds - cut them in half if they're too long or save the shorter ones for the little stove. Ours is a pretty brown enamel finish and is the centrepiece of the room.

 

[grandpatractor]

Earl,
The Owb added to your current heating set up is what I would do.
You put the HX under your current lp unit and used the forced air.
You can keep the woodchuck for warming your hindend when you need it and to keep the chill out of the basement.
Then you can use that evil slider thing any time you want and all you will hear is the fan kick in.

 

[tanker]

I vote for the OWB,I'm on my 7th year with mine and have never looked back.You've already got the one in the basement,leave it for power outages,(guess its paid for,ain't eating anything unless you need to use it)The 2 dogs here know that if you say lets go out to head out the door to the porch and if you say lets do the stove to go out through the garage and thats two of thier trips outside anyway plus you get all the hot waqter you need and I get to put one up the electric co's butt too in the winter.Just my opinion,well worth what it cost.Scott

 

[branchbuzzer]

Are you already using the ductwork to circulate the air, or are you just using stand-alone fans? I think if it was me I'd just look at better, creative ways to mix the air. But then, I'm a cheap whatchamacallit

 

[reaperman]

My vote would be for 2 wood stoves. Once living in a mobile home myself and heating with wood. I can honestly say the quickest, most efficient, affordable heat source is a wood stove. If you had a small epa woodstove upstairs, you would be surprised how little wood you would be using for all the heat you need. And as far as the basement goes, if your basement is insulated, I believe a small woodstove would have no trouble keeping the basement warm as well. The main reason for having a stove in the basement is only to keep the pipes from freezing. There is a layer of insulation under the floor of the mobile home that would insulate heat from radiating from the basement to the upstairs anyway. So a large stove downstairs would not be ideal for providing the main heat throughout the house. Basically you would only have to light the basement stove to prevent freezing pipes. Therefore the stove upstairs would do the main heating.

Presently, I live in a walkout rambler that is heated with a wood furnace. I also have a 24x40 kennel I heat with a wood stove. The difference in wood consumption between the furnace in the house and the epa stove in the kennel is almost unbelievable. I know if I had that wood stove in my home I could easily (over) heat (the main level) on a fraction of the wood I use now. The small wood stove in the kennel is a Englander 13nc, that I bought at home depot for $400 on sale.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Thanks for all the ideas guys. Here's some of my thoughts:

-Insulation. No doubt. The windows are big heat dumps, and I'm probably going to do windows and siding either this year or next, along with more insulation. I did the roof in 2010 and added insulation where I could, but vaulted ceilings in the front 2/3 really crimps what you can do.

-The current wood furnace is NOT staying. It's plumb tuckered out. I've had the welder down there a couple times now to fix cracks from metal fatigue. It's 30 years or so old, and not so efficient, especially when I have to keep it burning fairly hot to keep that damn outdoor chimney warm enough to keep from building creosote.

-Geothermal - I'd need to do a bunch more research to have an informed opinion. What little I know or have heard about em is that they are expensive to install, and aren't really quick at adapting to temperature changes.

-Using the furnace fan to circulate heat. I'd love to, but it's a built for mobile homes model that just sucks air from ground level in the hallway, no cold air intake I could run downstairs.

-OWB, I like the "keep the mess outside", and the idea of plumbing it to a future shop as well. Free hot water is also a plus, but can be done with furnaces and maybe a couple of the bigger stoves as well.

-Multiple stoves. I don't think there'd be more maintenance than keeping my old stove and chimney running (see above), and I still like the idea of having the heat where I want it, and when I want it. I don't like the lack of efficiency of the older ones, and I'm not completely sure how much better the newer Phase II ones are, I just haven't been around any of them.

-New furnace. I'm still stuck on what seems like it's gonna be a rat's nest of ducting with my already low ceiling downstairs, but otherwise it'd be my favorite. I'd run it all along one wall, but the best side for that is the side with all the windows...Grrr.

I'm probably more undecided now than I was before I started this post, and my head hurts now. I think I will go cut some wood to make that go away.

 

[Chris-PA]

I'm probably more undecided now than I was before I started this post, and my head hurts now.

Our work here is done.