How about down angle for round filed chains? Some chains ask for it, some don't. It's a couple extra steps when grinding, and annoying to keep track of which chains want it and which don't. Does it really matter?
Does sharpening angle matter?
- Thread starter Oldtoolsnewproblems
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I was told, by people that I trust, that it makes a significant difference under test conditions. I believe them. But I don't really notice it in the cutting that I do, so I skip the extra steps involved.
Plus (and it's a big plus), I typically grind chains at home, and sharpen with a file guide in the field, as well as for others who do this. Some of the most common file guides are designed to only be used at 0° (or 90°, depending on your reference). So, if I add the 10° 'down angle' with the grinder, and they don't use this with their guide, it takes several additional strokes to 'seat' the file, before even starting to sharpen the edges.
It's a choice. If you notice better performance, and are consistent, go for it.
That said, I am glad that I have that option on my Oregon grinder, in case someone wants it.
Philbert
First time filing any new chain pay very close attention to the contour of the original tooth and follow it exactly. I hand file now, better at it that any machine or fixture out there, but didn't get good at it overnight.
There is a HUGE difference in the quality of files, stick with the good stuff, nothing with any "rice" in it for sure......
There is a HUGE difference in the quality of files, stick with the good stuff, nothing with any "rice" in it for sure......
outdoortype
ArboristSite Guru
I don't know if this is helpful, but I just try and go parallel to the witness mark on the top of the chain. I would rather touch up in the woods than replace the chain. I file by hand like Cliff and really prefer this method. If the chain is really bad, I will use the dremel rotary tool. If you get to wrapped up in sharpening angles, you'll wind up messing with the saw more than cutting wood.
I've been hand and jig filing for about 40 years, but I really just started learning about it in the last couple years. It's amazing how much I didn't know that whole time. My Dad (who felled the timber to build a house with a 2 man crosscut saw) taught me to use the file that was with the saw and always file the same number of licks at exactly the same angle as the tooth already was.... and that was good enough for me for a long ass time!
Now I am realizing that I want a sharp consistent chain that doesn't rely on luck to work right- I want to take it off the grinder and already know it's going to spit out nice big chips when I get out in the woods.
So I'm willing to spend hours on one chain right now, with the goal of figuring out what a great, consistent grind looks like. When I figure out exactly where my sweet spot is, I'll tear through all them chains in the same way and not have ten different setups for twenty chains like I do now.
From results so far, I think 55/30 is going to be my friend, but I am still trying to figure out if I want 10° down or not.
Has anybody here ever really tried looking up every chain and grinding to varying manufacturers' specs versus just picking angles and sticking to them?
I was obsessed with the manufacturers' recommended angles, until I understood, that these were just “starting recommendations“.
Philbert
Oldtoolsnewproblems
ArboristSite Operative
Yeah I'm just going to go 30 on everything and call it good lol.
The 0 vs 10 is probably the only debate left for me. I of course only have one new chain vs the 8 I've gathered second hand, and the 1 new chain is listed as 30&10 as the right angle. It's also a round ground full chisel, so I'm going with the theory that round full chisel needs 10 deg, and will sharpen all my others the same way
The 0 vs 10 is probably the only debate left for me. I of course only have one new chain vs the 8 I've gathered second hand, and the 1 new chain is listed as 30&10 as the right angle. It's also a round ground full chisel, so I'm going with the theory that round full chisel needs 10 deg, and will sharpen all my others the same way
I'd like to test 10° vs 0° on the same chain, but it won't be the same chain anymore after grinding it back to change the angle.
I guess the solution is to grind 2 brand new loops and see which one I like better, but I am pretty sure I am too cheap and lazy to actually do that.
I guess the solution is to grind 2 brand new loops and see which one I like better, but I am pretty sure I am too cheap and lazy to actually do that.
10 deg down angle is mostly for chisel type cutters, not semi chisel.
Different chain manufacturers make cutters with slightly different shape and geometry, thus the difference in recommended filing angles.
Start with recommended, then change one thing and test it in the wood your cutting.
Depending on what wood I am cutting, will determine the type of angle, hook, depth gauge setting I will use, and it also ties in with power head to match as well.
as I typically only cut aussie hardwood, from low rainfall areas and its usually dead and dry to boot, I only use semi chisel, with little hook to the cutter, and 90 file position with 30deg top plate angle and find that works best for smoothness, longevity (a subjective term in aussie hard wood), and loading up the bar length to the power head etc.
Different chain manufacturers make cutters with slightly different shape and geometry, thus the difference in recommended filing angles.
Start with recommended, then change one thing and test it in the wood your cutting.
Depending on what wood I am cutting, will determine the type of angle, hook, depth gauge setting I will use, and it also ties in with power head to match as well.
as I typically only cut aussie hardwood, from low rainfall areas and its usually dead and dry to boot, I only use semi chisel, with little hook to the cutter, and 90 file position with 30deg top plate angle and find that works best for smoothness, longevity (a subjective term in aussie hard wood), and loading up the bar length to the power head etc.
Oldtoolsnewproblems
ArboristSite Operative
Well that one chain is the only one I actually know the mfr recommendation on lol, but either way the granberg jig making my filling more consistent had turned my saw into a lightsaber.
Also putting a 15" bar on a 67cc saw let's you cut fast without even loading the engine. Swapped in a 8 tooth sprocket, and now we got greased lightening, but I can hear it work for it lol
Also putting a 15" bar on a 67cc saw let's you cut fast without even loading the engine. Swapped in a 8 tooth sprocket, and now we got greased lightening, but I can hear it work for it lol
I touch up whenever needed. May be five minutes after I just sharpened if I can't get the log brushed off good. Say maybe it's rained the night before and everything is wet. It might be two tanks of fuel, but rarely more. It doesn't have to be dull, just not sharp, to touch it up. The point being for me, one chain, vice on the quad, 2-1 file guide with sharp files, and an extra file to bring the lower side, or gullet some call it, where the 2-1 doesn't reach. I don't worry about perfect, or even the same number of strokes. It cuts great when sharp. Half way through the tooth, one side gets shorter so I'll even them up by eye sight. I mark some of the rakers with a permanent marker to see if they're getting touched up as well with the 2-1. Then I get to cutting, knowing I'll be sharpening again soon. I do sometimes run two saws, especially if I have to noodle rounds. Sharpening often, touching up often, is much less work when cutting, much easier on a saw, on bars, and on the chain. I've found cutting crooked is more often the bar in need of maintenance, removing a burr, squaring up the rails, and greasing a tip. Cutting crooked can also happen when a chain is dull. If you sharpen and get dust, then the rakers need attention.
I'm cutting hardwood and we are getting into freezing weather. I'll have to try 25° on one saw and 30° on the other for bucking, and again for noodling with each. A vice is a must.
I'm cutting hardwood and we are getting into freezing weather. I'll have to try 25° on one saw and 30° on the other for bucking, and again for noodling with each. A vice is a must.
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When discussing this, one should clarify whether it is the angle that is viewed from the top, or the angle viewed from the side, and then we go from there.
That would depend on how the wood is and how powerful your saw is. The more aggressive angles you use the more power required that simple.
beaverbandit
New Member
Old thread, but I'll offer my small bit. I love the extreme sharpness of 35 degrees, but that's a lot of stress to put on that sharp point. One small ding on one side will have you cutting crooked in no time. I tend to
favor a shallower angle like 28 to 30 degrees. You don't cut as fast, but the edge lasts longer. Also I'll add I run a 395xp.... it can handle the lesser angle well. In a smaller saw I would favor a steeper angle.
favor a shallower angle like 28 to 30 degrees. You don't cut as fast, but the edge lasts longer. Also I'll add I run a 395xp.... it can handle the lesser angle well. In a smaller saw I would favor a steeper angle.
