Elm this, and Elm that...

[Locust Cutter]

Leaf size is the easy way to ID siberian elm. The leaves are only 1/3 to 1/4 the size of other elms. Firewood btu charts rate it the same as american elm. I hope it has some value as firewood as I've got quite a bit at the property I'm cutting. I do admit to leaving anything under 6-8" diameter as the small stuff just isn't worth it. One thing I've noticed is the bark makes a lot of ash. Good thing on alot of the trees the bark falls off as you spit it. Maybe it would be better for campfire wood?

I only cut it when I have to but it's alright in a stove. Stinks a bit, smokes a lot, and has a very high ash content. Blend some w/Locust/Osage Orange/Oak and you have a temperate fire that's warm and inviting, w/o being overwelming, (think cool weather, not heating for -15F). Most folks around here refer to Siberian (and likely all others) Elm as piss elm due to the fact that if you park anything under one for any length of time, the tree weeps all over your vehicle/tent/etc and leave a crappy film that's a pain to remove Hence pissing on your possessions.

 

[Whitespider]

Firewood btu charts rate it (Siberian Elm) the same as american elm.

Which just ain’t right. But most charts also list Slippery (Red) Elm as only marginally better than American Elm… and that ain’t right either. Maybe it has something to do with specific areas or growing conditions? Siberian Elm takes forever to properly dry out, way longer than it’s worth for the return. Darn stuff can be a bear to split, leaving all kinds of thick strings sticking out that make it near impossible to stack. If it’s dry enough it will burn OK, but doesn’t produce the same heat of American Elm and won’t coal-up worth a crap. And as has already been said… it makes a ton of ash, especially the bark. It also doesn’t seem to have the same natural resistance to rot as American Elm… Siberian Elm is the only elm I’ve ever had rot while sitting in a stack. When I first moved into this place there was a huge Siberian in the front yard (almost 3-ft DBH), I took it down that spring, split and stacked it. Eighteen months later most of it wasn’t even any good for the fire pit… the bottom half of the stacks had turned into a rotten spongy mess and the rest was feather light. Now-a-days I wouldn’t even take Siberian Elm if it was delivered free! (well… maybe I’d take it if they’d also stack it for free )

 

[1project2many]

Some more pictures of Chinese Elm, because sometimes we get the tree after the bark is gone.

The wood in these pictures was taken down the day before the pictures were shot. First load of this I ever burned had been down for over a year, The bark was gone and the wood had a yellow-orange color when split. Burned hot and fast, but maybe a bit better than poplar. Chinese Elm likes to produce branches at seemingly random places and has a lot of crooked wood that's tough to stack in nice, neat piles.

 

[Red Elm]

Excellent tutorial Whitespider and a great thread all the way through. There are a couple of ways to distinguish American Elm from Red Elm after they have died and lost their bark. American elm has a bare shape like that of a long stemmed flower vase, kind of a big V on a pillar, and a Red Elm is more irregular. Also, the American Elm exhibits more buttress roots. The Red Elm sometimes is totaly void of buttress roots, looking like a pole stuck in the ground. In my area the barkless Red Elm appears to be a darker gray/brown while a barkless White Elm will be a lighter gray.

Standing dead Red Elm is one of my favortie woods as it burns hot, and if it has been dead a couple of years or more can go straight from the splitter into the stove. My wife can make a white-hot coal bed with Red Elm. One thing I have noticed is that when cleaning out the ash from one of those white-hot coal beds, there will be something that looks like ceramic clinkers in the ashes. Have no idea what that is. No, not part of the stove, its a 1980's era Old Time Appalachian stove that has burnt LOTS of hedge. I only find this after burning Red Elm.

American Elm is rarely burned in this area unless it was just a tree that needed cut. Red Elm is rarely cut green. Siberian Elm is considered a weed in this area.

 

[svk]

Is this American elm? I've never cut green elm before, surprised to see this much color.

 

[svk]

Is this American elm? I've never cut green elm before, surprised to see this much color.

View attachment 405562 View attachment 405564 View attachment 405565

Anybody? I think I can see the alternating cream and brown layers in the bark.

 

[hupte]

if you see the alternating layers of red and white in the bark then its definitely american elm. if you need a better view of the bark. try breaking it apart. it separates the layers of red and white and its easier to see.

 

[svk]

I was surprised to see so much color in the heartwood. The picture doesn't do justice but there are a lot of reds in with the brown.

 

[hupte]

yes I agree, american elm has some nice brown color. I was surprised to see all the stuff I have turn light brown, or white after a few weeks of being c+s+s

 

[svk]

Man that stuff is grabby too. I couldn't understand why my chain kept grabbing until I looked at the bark.

 

[lindnova]

It is easiest to identify by the leaves, but the bark is slightly different than american and I can ususally identify without leaves. I think the thick bark contributes to rotting fast. I have nearly eradicated it on my property and used most of it for firewood in the Heatmor outdoor furnace. I have managed to either burn it the next year or some of it laid in logs for a year or two and some was cut, bucked and stacked in the woods before being moved and split a year later.

If Siberian sits for a year the bark will fall off very easily. I think if it is in stacks with the bark on that will contribute to rotting. I have had some sit in stacks with the bark off - large splits for 3 years uncovered and not one bit of rot. It actually was pretty clean wood and dry smells the same as other elms. As far as heat value, it is similar to cherry, but not as good as American elm and seems to work well in the outdoor furnace. Heck I burn box elder in there and it is way better than that.

So based on my experience if I cut any more for firewood I will either split big pieces, burn the next year or stack in rounds for a year then split and loose the bark and stack for another year or two. I am thinking the 3 or so remaining larger Siberians standing might just get girdled though since I have an abundance of oak and dead standing American elm.

By the way it seems these trees are infesting everywhere. They have pockets in my area where I am close to, but I was in the Spiders turf last weekend and they are absolutely taking over the ROW lines on the highways in Iowa. The worst was on hwy 218 from Waterloo to Mason city. Anywhere the ground is bare and seeds are around they start sprouting. If there is turf they have a harder time getting established.

Here is a picture of Siberian elm I cut this winter. Notice the split with ice in the middle. This was a healthy looking tree. I will be happy to have all the Siberians gone. I just found the last infestation in the west woods. I thought I had them all gone, but have been walking by these without realizing it. Now if I could only get the neighbors to get rid of theirs...

 

[Wood Doctor]

Why get rid of Siberian elm? Once dry, it splits and burns beautifully. And, the bark that falls off makes good kindling to light the fire. None of my customers complains when delivered split and dry. What more do you guys want? Rare hickory?

 

[lindnova]

I am getting rid of it because it is a weed. If a field is plowed up the edges start to get taken over by Siberians. I have plenty of other good trees to take the place. It also has been succumbing to dutch elm disease here - mainly in the woods by other American elms. The SE take years to fully die, but they witch broom out and hang on for a while.

 

[Wood Doctor]

Weeds don't seem to provide as much heat in the stove as Siberian elm. Even its bark works better for kindling than weeds. Hey, it's not perfect, but it works. There are guys here that even burn box elder.

 

[lindnova]

I do burn box elder and Siberian elm. Probably have 2-3 cords of each in the stacks. When clearing tree lines I make use of the wood vs wasting it. When there are nice dead oaks to burn vs. SE on hillsides that are hard to access, I will burn oak and kill the Siberians so more oak can grow.

 

[Woody912]

Weeds don't seem to provide as much heat in the stove as Siberian elm. Even its bark works better for kindling than weeds. Hey, it's not perfect, but it works. There are guys here that even burn box elder.

Given a choice between freezing and burning box elder I'd probably have to flip a coin! Current contents of my wood shed is red and white oak, hickory, ash, red elm, cherry,hard maple, cherry and hedge. Yes, I'm spoiled

 

[hupte]

nice!! i'm no wood snob in my stacks i have hedge, black locust, mulberry, honey locust, white oak, black oak, bur oak, ash, hackberry, siberian elm, american elm, sugar maple, silver maple, box elder maple, willow, cottonwood, poplar, cedar. hope i'm not forgetting any. lol.

 

[olyman]

nice!! i'm no wood snob in my stacks i have hedge, black locust, mulberry, honey locust, white oak, black oak, bur oak, ash, hackberry, siberian elm, american elm, sugar maple, silver maple, box elder maple, willow, cottonwood, poplar, cedar. hope i'm not forgetting any. lol.

separated according to soft or hard??? pre, and post season???

 

[Whitespider]

Anybody? I think I can see the alternating cream and brown layers in the bark.

Normally those creamy-white layers are quite pronounced and well defined... the words, "I think I can see..." makes me believe it ain't American Elm. But also, at the same time, your pictures don't give me a good look at the bark either. Personally I'm leaning towards Siberian Elm... but beings as you live "up north" it could be Red Elm or even Rock Elm (no bettin' heavy on Rock... bark and growth rings look wrong). The dark center and wide(ish) lookin' growth rings make me lean toward Siberian.
*

 

[svk]

Normally those creamy-white layers are quite pronounced and well defined... the words, "I think I can see..." makes me believe it ain't American Elm. But also, at the same time, your pictures don't give me a good look at the bark either. Personally I'm leaning towards Siberian Elm... but beings as you live "up north" it could be Red Elm or even Rock Elm (no bettin' heavy on Rock... bark and growth rings look wrong). The dark center and wide(ish) lookin' growth rings make me lean toward Siberian.
*

This was a tree cut in upstate NY if that helps. Also I'm inspecting the cell phone photo which isn't all that clear. I didn't pay attention when I was up there.