epa laws in PA

[trouba]

The Jotul stove treeco has if it a newer one would be 75 percent efficent putting off 4.4 grams of pollution I mean particulates so it looks like it would qualify as an EPA approved stove according to Jotuls site> But I can not find that model on the Epa site, An EPA certified wood stove or wood heating appliance has to be independently tested by an accredited laboratory to meet a particulate emissions limit of 7.5* grams per hour for noncatalytic wood stoves and 4.1* grams per hour for catalytic wood stoves. So it looks like he can still sell wood to himself according to Jotuals specs.

 

[Windwalker7]

Good ole TreeCo.

The guy dodges questions left and right.

Won't disclose what vehicle he drives.

Dodges questions about burning paint.

Doesn't want to discuss how much smoke and odor comes out of his two stroke chainsaw.

Won't answer if his Jotol is EPA certified.


Why all the question dodging, Big Man?

Constantly changes the topic when the questions get too hot.

Why don't you tell everyone how you use to be a moderator on this board but got kicked to the curb.

Why was that?

 

[Pain Cow]

Usually weasles were raised by weasles.

 

[PAwoodchopper]

Usually weasles were raised by weasles.

I REALLY think he means REDNECKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Storm56]

Usually weasles were raised by weasles.

HYPOCRIT is the word that comes to mind...

 

[Windwalker7]

This video was taken on 2.21.09 at approximately 8am. It displays the pollutant wood smoke that my neighbors put into the environment on a regular basis


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrY4shkn1fo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrY4shkn1fo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

This post is from a guy that sells firewood, drives a diesel, owns an uncertified stove, operates a chainsaw with oil/gas mix, burns up old rotted wood to clear his land and he's worried if someone else is polluting.

 

[Windwalker7]

TreeCo's videos give you a peek into the kind of guy TreeCo is.

He goes around video taping his neighbor's and other people's houses to show the smoke.


From the dates on the videos, he's been doing it for a while.

We all know the type of person he is. We see his type portrayed in movies and TV shows. The nosy neighbor looking out the window with binoculars to neb. He takes it a step farther. He takes videos to post on the internet and show the world.

He's a class act.

 

[Mike PA]

Videos

It does seem a bit odd that you are recording people's stoves. Seems to be a bit of an obsession of yours...?

Anywho... I can understand why you don't like the person across the street using an OWB with a stack that is too low. I agree that is a poor location for the stove and your neighbor should not have done that. I think the township or borough should regulate that use, as it clearly does affect other people. I will not install one of those at my house because my neighbors are too close. Having said that, a blanket banning of these stoves and non-EPA stoves is simply wrong. I am not sure how old my stove is (25+?), but I challenge anyone to show that my stove impacts anyone elses health or property value.

Getting back to the point of the OP - PA is using a blanket regulation to deal with OWBs, which is wrong. New installations should be completed according to new regulations. Old installations should be left alone, unless they specifically create a problem, and not just for someone driving around with a video camera. Prevailing winds, stack heights, and distances need to be considered before the DEP simply outlaws peoples use of these stoves.

 

[Mike PA]

Sorry - my mistake.

 

[ray benson]

Anywho... I can understand why you don't like the person across the street using an OWB with a stack that is too low. I agree that is a poor location for the stove and your neighbor should not have done that. I think the township or borough should regulate that use, as it clearly does affect other people. I will not install one of those at my house because my neighbors are too close. Having said that, a blanket banning of these stoves and non-EPA stoves is simply wrong. I am not sure how old my stove is (25+?), but I challenge anyone to show that my stove impacts anyone elses health or property value.

Getting back to the point of the OP - PA is using a blanket regulation to deal with OWBs, which is wrong. New installations should be completed according to new regulations. Old installations should be left alone, unless they specifically create a problem, and not just for someone driving around with a video camera. Prevailing winds, stack heights, and distances need to be considered before the DEP simply outlaws peoples use of these stoves.

Some other states do allow the counties or villages to set the OWB regulations. Something similar should satisfy PA. legislators. It would be nice if a company could make upgrade kits to increase efficiency and minimize particulates on older units.
Those CB furnaces look pretty impressive
http://www.centralboiler.com/e-classic.html

 

[Mike PA]

There are local ordinances in PA that cover OWB installation, but not every municipality has them. The DEP regs would cover the ones that were installed prior to local ordinances and, in many cases, goes beyond what the local code calls for. It will be onerous or impossible for many people to comply with the DEP regs, as stack heights could get outrageous (Need to be 2 feet higher than houses within 150 to 500feet, depending on stove type).

 

[odps]

The TreeCo Video collection...

Maybe you'll notice a pattern after a bit. Personal attack......new smoking owb video. Let's see who runs out first. Google is watching.

Every time you post, its another vid of one of your customers....

I changed my sales policy on Christmas day.

but all of these videos were made before Christmas... LOL..

seen one smokin owb, you've seen em all... no one is clikin em man... every time you post a vid... we just scroll by...

but hey, knock yourself out...

 

[Windwalker7]

This video was taken on 2.21.09 at approximately 8am. It displays the pollutant wood smoke that my neighbors put into the environment on a regular basis


<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrY4shkn1fo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yrY4shkn1fo&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

I guess its someone else that video tapes "YOUR NEIGHBOR" and puts it on You Tube.

My Bad!

 

[wampum]

There are local ordinances in PA that cover OWB installation, but not every municipality has them. The DEP regs would cover the ones that were installed prior to local ordinances and, in many cases, goes beyond what the local code calls for. It will be onerous or impossible for many people to comply with the DEP regs, as stack heights could get outrageous (Need to be 2 feet higher than houses within 150 to 500feet, depending on stove type).

Mike those local ordinances remind me of the local ordinances some townships have for burning your trash.(or open fires,camp fires) I think ours is on Tuesday. If you are burning for recreation or clearing farm land,then you can burn any time. I hate regulation,unless someone is harming someone else. Those open fire rules were put in basically so that you did no harm to your neighbor. The neighbor and you know not to hang clothes out on Tuesday,because the neighbor may be burning trash,and you may get ash on it(just an example). Any other day should be OK. Camp fires or Farm fires(clearing fence rows exc) are usually pretty far away from other houses. If they start to just take a wide brush and make regulation that covers the whole state,will not open burning be next. Once you start something,you start a slippery slope,more regulation will be coming. The best part is DEP is non elected officials,that are making law. Kind of sounds unconstitutional to me. But any more they just tend to wipe their butts with the constitution.

 

[flotek]

the problem is the law doesnt change much of anything as far as johnny neighbor is concerned . it doesnt matter if theres a strict new regulation for the use of epa certified stoves or not ,the fact is if someone is irresponsible and burns green wood garbage tires ect .. they will do it just as they always have regardless of what appliance they are required to use.ive seen it first hand many times trust me you can bellow tons of noxious smoke out of a new epa certified stove if you miss use it and are ignorant in proper use just like any stove .its like saying guns kill people ,its self defeating because your blaming an innanimate object for the problem when its the user

 

[wampum]

Just makes you wonder,if we had a long power outage,where only wood stoves,could be used for heat. After a few days Kerosene would run out in most homes,after the 5 or 10 gallons put aside run out. I wonder if that nosey neighbor that complained about your stove would like to visit to get warm?

 

[woodbooga]

This thread sure has some interesting tags down at the bottom of the page.

 

[odps]

Video

One could set a video camera on a tripod in my back yard... and it would be easy to get footage of the ole girl puffing smoke during certain parts of the burn cycle, when I add wood. But you would also get hours and hours of footage when there is no smoke at all, as the stove is doing its job...

Then one could post hours and hours of this footage on the internet... over and over... but what would that prove? Nothing... if you've seen one owb run clean, you've seen em all....

The real question at hand, is; since most stoves in service today are non EPA certified, will they be outlawed??????

Also, there is no reason to single out any particular type of wood burner... All non EPA wood burners could suffer the same fate...

If your stove (insert, indoor unit, owb, fire place, whatever...) is non EPAcertified... then your in the same boat with the rest of us... no matter how "clean" you think your stove is...

I can't figure out why an owner of a non EPA free standing cast iron stove would want to loose their stove to new EPA regs ???

I mean if it happens... it happens... but it could effect all of us non EPA stove owners... not just the owb folks...

 

[Circle B MN]

I'm sure this thread could go on for some time, and as a responsible OWB owner I'd have a few comments I could add as well, but I do believe the best thing to do here is.......DON'T FEED THE TROLL...


Stay warm guys.......

 

[Slick]

This thread sure has some interesting tags down at the bottom of the page.

Good catch, holy crap that's funny