I have heard that 80% of our heaters may not meet the regulations. If all this garbage comes to pass maybe some of you can design and build add on equipment to bring the old heaters up to the new regs. I would like to have a heater that would burn longer and produce better heat. My current heater is probably 30 years old and it does not have all the new technology.
EPA wanting to rule on use of wood heaters
- Thread starter jwp
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isaaccarlson
Addicted to ArboristSite
The EPA can sit on a hot coal. I am going to use whatever I have on hand to heat my house. If it is a barrel stove or a super high efficiency epa stove, it is my decision. Personally I think I get more heat from a barrel stove than one of those epa thingies but hey, whatever works. There is rarely any smoke above any of my stoves, so they will have a hard time finding me.
Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
That is as far fetched as taking away all our guns. Maybe on new stoves sold. I assume you are talking about wood stoves and outside wood boilers? Unless a "wood heater" is something I am not aware of?
You better read the proposed regulations Coldfront, 'cause it ain't so far-fetched. Your guns are specifically protected by the Second Amendment, giving you some recourse... your stove ain't.
As those proposed regs are worded today the EPA could outlaw transfer of ownership and outlaw the moving of any non-compliant appliance.
Are you getting that... if you sold your home you could not (legally) take it with you and you could not (legally) leave it for the new homeowner, it would have to be removed and destroyed. You couldn't even bring one out of mothballs (such as stored in a shed) and legally install it anywhere. The only exemption is appliances currently installed and in use in a home‼ So are you getting that... they could stop you from using a non-compliant appliance in your un-attached shop or garage.
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As those proposed regs are worded today the EPA could outlaw transfer of ownership and outlaw the moving of any non-compliant appliance.
Are you getting that... if you sold your home you could not (legally) take it with you and you could not (legally) leave it for the new homeowner, it would have to be removed and destroyed. You couldn't even bring one out of mothballs (such as stored in a shed) and legally install it anywhere. The only exemption is appliances currently installed and in use in a home‼ So are you getting that... they could stop you from using a non-compliant appliance in your un-attached shop or garage.
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isaaccarlson
Addicted to ArboristSite
I believe this falls under "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." We have the right to provide our own heat if we have the ability. They should crack down on those nuclear reactors though. They have caused more worldwide damage than any wood stove. If a wood stove decides to melt down, it might burn a house or a shed. WHEN a nuclear reactor melts, it wrecks the entire world. How do they expect to enforce this anyway? Go door to door and ask to see any heating devices? I can grab a barrel, tank, some scrap, whatever, and build a stove in about an hour if I have to.
pennsywoodburnr
supreme scrounger
This got me thinking Spider, how on earth would the epa even begin to enforce something like that? I mean, wouldn't they have to have some prior knowledge of your house to begin with in order to know if something was swapped, added on or whatever? Like say my house which was built back in '85 or '86 originally came with a prefab fireplace (which I currently still use), then in say 2015 all these wacky new laws go into effect, which outlaws all older smoke dragons and states only stoves/furnaces/boilers or whatever meeting XYZ particle emissions are now eligible for use in a home/garage/shed or whatever. How would the epa know if I decided to rip out the fireplace, replace it with some now defunct smoke dragon and then just say the previous owner of the house made those changes years ago? As someone mentioned in a post a while ago, it probably won't be an immediate power grab right off the bat, but a slow, gradual strangulation of wood burning equipment that leaves only certain players on the field, with the eventual decline in wood burning due to over regulation and fines that are levied against the law breakers. Damn, almost sounds like I need to buy a couple more open fireplaces and hide 'em in my shed! lol. We all know the g'ment would never overstep their boundries, right?
wareagle5.0
ArboristSite Lurker
All alphabet agnts should be abolished IRS, EPA, DEA, ATF etc.
If i want to heat my home with a stove that burns nothing but baby seal carcasses i should be able to. This whole govt is corupt and exists only to serve themselves.
Let it burn.
If i want to heat my home with a stove that burns nothing but baby seal carcasses i should be able to. This whole govt is corupt and exists only to serve themselves.
Let it burn.
Well... they can't really, at least not 100%. But they do hold a few cards...
First you need to remember the EPA ain't an "enforcement" agency, it's a "regulation" agency.
Not everyone does there own installation, so professional installers wouldn't do it.
Some insurance companies do periodic inspections.
Many properties are tax appraised periodically also.
Home/property ownership transfers are already closely regulated, monitored and documented in multiple ways.
There's the whistle-blower neighbors.
And don't forget that regulation breeds regulation... if they get their way and these new regulations go into effect, they can then make new regulation to ensure the original regulations are followed.
Yeah, they would need State and local governments on-board to have any real chance to enforce some of it... which they already do in many areas of the nation. But out here in fly-over-country, not so much... local law enforcement is dictated more by common sense rather than by a common book. The local sheriff sits next to you at the school Christmas program, is the deacon of your church, is your kid's little league coach, and is married to your second cousin... and one of his deputies is your brother-in-law. Heck, our local sheriff was my wife's first boy-friend in school, two of his deputies are related to me by marriage, and one deputy was once an employee of mine. I sat at the desk of the local police chief a few years ago and bought a pistol from him, and then openly carried it out of his office and police station... it didn't even raise an eyebrow. I know all the police officers personally, one of them was on my trap-shooting team... heck, some of them have stood around a box-o-beer with me... in my yard‼
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Small town/ city yep still that way, mega urban area nope 1/2 step above hobnail booted storm troopers. was a time when I knew everyone in blue where my shop was also, that was 40 years ago lots of changes since then. I used to shoot pool with the police chief, couple of other leo's were my hunting partners.
griff154
ArboristSite Operative
What are they trying to implament on the old stove's & etc? Bag house's & s.c.r's? That would cost a whole lot of $.
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jebatty
ArboristSite Lurker
My old OWB spewed so much smoke people driving down the highway would stop and see if the place was on fire. I got rid of it, now have a wood gasification boiler that is essentially smoke free, uses far less wood, and is creosote free. Life became a whole lot easier and simple.
zogger
Tree Freak
Why would it smoke so much? Seems like it is just a really big outside smoke dragon. Burn dry wood and give it enough air, it shouldn't smoke once going.
EPA =
you said WAYYYYY more than a mouthful there!!! the lets start on the worthless politicos...
jebatty
ArboristSite Lurker
Wood, mostly pine slab wood dried over the summer, but it cycled on and off based on demand, each start up was a deluge of smoke; plus lots of creosote buildup while it was in an off cycle, smoldering. It was an old OWB, maybe some are better today, but I doubt a tank of water with a fire in the middle really can ever get hot enough to burn smoke free.
Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
I don't think I could even get homeowners insurance without a newer stove, I already tried. So I have 2 Pacific Energy stoves that I'm sure would pass anyway. The days of guys burning with barrel stoves in there home are pretty much over unless they are uninsured.
And as far as some of these old OWB they should be banned, some of them put out the equivalent of tear gas, if you have any neighbors close by.
And as far as some of these old OWB they should be banned, some of them put out the equivalent of tear gas, if you have any neighbors close by.
That may be true where you live.
People tend to think that what insurance companies can, and cannot do in their local area is the same throughout the nation... that simply ain't true.
Insurance companies are regulated by the States, and even by local governments in some instances.
You may purchase your insurance policy from the same company I do... but being in two separate states they may have absolutely nothing in common.
Heck, we likely even send our premium payments to different locations.
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Coldfront
Addicted to ArboristSite
Yes I guess it is possible but the regulations said something like a un-rated wood stove has to be at least something like 36" or more? away from the nearest wall, Wouldn't work in my house. the back of my stove's are about 12" away from the wall. But barrel stoves were a flat out no! Unless you want to insure with Loyd's of London.
naturelover
Tree Freak
It's funny, as I recall many in the state of West Virginia were saying the same thing before that tank leaked and polluted the drinking water....
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