Face cut too small?
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Ryan Willock
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Thanks Kris!
Burt, no I don't use a gap in the undercut. I've tried it but haven't found it to be of any benifit with white pine although some times I will exaggerate the snipe if there is excessive root flare or if I have to fall a double across itself if that makes since.
The first pic of me up in a poplar was taken about sixty feet up. I'm setting the 5/8'' (3/4'' swaged down to 5/8) main line off my big skidder on the tree to pull it as it had almost all of its weight on the backside as well as back lean. Norrmally a tree like that I'd jack it over or push it with the skidder if the ground permits (it didn't) but it just so happend that my log loader was about 70' away and the we had a slight wind blowing that way. The tree had to come down that day as we were moving the landing the next day. It almost doesn't look that high if you look at the bottom right of the pic you can see some slash up aginst the tree, that was from the landing, kinda tells you about the ground huh? The pile was made when I grubed the landing. That was the logging of Dillion's Fork in sept-nov of 05. Good boundry of timber, 50 acres of good timber but short ground. Couldn't keep a lead.
The big double poplar was on a 3 acre boundry I on the top side of Green Hill. The tree measured 12' across the widest point and measured 23' in circumfrance! I had to bore holes and use spring bordes (I'm fond of cutting sapplings for this task) to be able to fall it. No real good lay for it so a layout was built for one half and the other was laid to the hill, it saved to a 10'' top for the one with no lay and the other saved all the way. It had be bucked into logs so the skidder could move it, mostly 12's adn 14's.To you westerners Cat ground for sure! In fact I had an skidder roll just a hundred yards bellow the big double! Took my 550 and a friends 650 to put humpty dumpty back on the mountian! A lot of this tract was prebunched with the dozer so the skidder could reach it. That was the last boundry I cut before selling out. I had pics of the falling of the big double the next day but the camara fell out of my pack on the skid road on the way out and got runover by the dozer! They don't make em' like they used too! Oh, it was so steep in there that 12 other loggers turned it down! Had to run chains on the skidder even with four new tires and it was DRY!
Burt, no I don't use a gap in the undercut. I've tried it but haven't found it to be of any benifit with white pine although some times I will exaggerate the snipe if there is excessive root flare or if I have to fall a double across itself if that makes since.
The first pic of me up in a poplar was taken about sixty feet up. I'm setting the 5/8'' (3/4'' swaged down to 5/8) main line off my big skidder on the tree to pull it as it had almost all of its weight on the backside as well as back lean. Norrmally a tree like that I'd jack it over or push it with the skidder if the ground permits (it didn't) but it just so happend that my log loader was about 70' away and the we had a slight wind blowing that way. The tree had to come down that day as we were moving the landing the next day. It almost doesn't look that high if you look at the bottom right of the pic you can see some slash up aginst the tree, that was from the landing, kinda tells you about the ground huh? The pile was made when I grubed the landing. That was the logging of Dillion's Fork in sept-nov of 05. Good boundry of timber, 50 acres of good timber but short ground. Couldn't keep a lead.
The big double poplar was on a 3 acre boundry I on the top side of Green Hill. The tree measured 12' across the widest point and measured 23' in circumfrance! I had to bore holes and use spring bordes (I'm fond of cutting sapplings for this task) to be able to fall it. No real good lay for it so a layout was built for one half and the other was laid to the hill, it saved to a 10'' top for the one with no lay and the other saved all the way. It had be bucked into logs so the skidder could move it, mostly 12's adn 14's.To you westerners Cat ground for sure! In fact I had an skidder roll just a hundred yards bellow the big double! Took my 550 and a friends 650 to put humpty dumpty back on the mountian! A lot of this tract was prebunched with the dozer so the skidder could reach it. That was the last boundry I cut before selling out. I had pics of the falling of the big double the next day but the camara fell out of my pack on the skid road on the way out and got runover by the dozer! They don't make em' like they used too! Oh, it was so steep in there that 12 other loggers turned it down! Had to run chains on the skidder even with four new tires and it was DRY!
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
I shut down all logging operations in end of July of '06. The next set of pics of a boundry I bought on Conners Mountain. I bought the timber in January and we moved into it in Febuary. The truck road in was tight to say the least!
On the left going out of the landing we had a 5' drop off into the creek if you ran off the road and believe me there was NO room for erro! The road was just a shelf cut into the side of the mountain, it used to go to the house and farm of Posy Conner, the man the mountain was named for. I spent two days on that road with the dozer trying to widen it but there was just too much rock. My truck driver said that was the worst 1/2 mile of road he had ever seen in 30 years of log truckin! Any way the pics you'll see are first of the crew gathered around the big pine and then of me falling and bucking it. The guys had their hard hats off ONLY for the pic, all other times they were required to wear them! The butt log had a little rot in it but the rest of the tree was sound. Even with out the butt cut the tree scaled 1.8mbf! With it it would have been around 2500mbf! TIMBER! No lay could be built for it since there was a small spring below that the landowner got his water from. Almost forgot that my hopped up 066 from Dennis, its running a 36'' bar with Oregon fullskip full chiesl.
On the left going out of the landing we had a 5' drop off into the creek if you ran off the road and believe me there was NO room for erro! The road was just a shelf cut into the side of the mountain, it used to go to the house and farm of Posy Conner, the man the mountain was named for. I spent two days on that road with the dozer trying to widen it but there was just too much rock. My truck driver said that was the worst 1/2 mile of road he had ever seen in 30 years of log truckin! Any way the pics you'll see are first of the crew gathered around the big pine and then of me falling and bucking it. The guys had their hard hats off ONLY for the pic, all other times they were required to wear them! The butt log had a little rot in it but the rest of the tree was sound. Even with out the butt cut the tree scaled 1.8mbf! With it it would have been around 2500mbf! TIMBER! No lay could be built for it since there was a small spring below that the landowner got his water from. Almost forgot that my hopped up 066 from Dennis, its running a 36'' bar with Oregon fullskip full chiesl.
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Thanks, I've got loads more.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
stump height
Ryan:
In your second photo, where you are on the downhill side with the saw above your head, are you starting a bore?
Is that tree alive or dead?
Ryan:
In your second photo, where you are on the downhill side with the saw above your head, are you starting a bore?
Is that tree alive or dead?
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Its alive but on the down hill swing. Somke, glade you mention that about my postioning. The tree had quite abit of head lean so I bore cut the down hill side to set up my hinge and then finished the back cut from the uphill side for saftey reasons. At the point where the felling cut was made the tree was almost 4 1/2' in diameter,4'4'' if memory serves me correctly. I held heavy on the up hill side and it centered up on the lay. I had to put up against another tree to hold it on the hill, if it went to the bottom it would have been a pain to get. The tree was just over 200' tall, one h@ll of a white pine! The guy that ran log loader for me has been logging for 50 years and he told me that is the tallest tree he has ever seen!
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
skill
Ryan:
You've definitely got some skill with a saw.
I've never seen anyone bore above their head before.
Trivia, if I felt that boring the downhill side was necessary, I would have placed the face about a foot and a half lower. Making it more reasonable to bore. It almost looks like you started a face cut down there.
I realize there is a lot more cutting to do lower and that the wood is denser. However, working with cuts lower, provided risks above are not imminent, is a lot easier. FSBurt made a similar point about driving wedges.
Also, on steeper ground, it is impossible to do much without extensive springboarding.
I added the photo below just for admiration. I've never even seen an operation like this before.
At your local mills, do they require a flat butt?
Ryan:
You've definitely got some skill with a saw.
I've never seen anyone bore above their head before.
Trivia, if I felt that boring the downhill side was necessary, I would have placed the face about a foot and a half lower. Making it more reasonable to bore. It almost looks like you started a face cut down there.
I realize there is a lot more cutting to do lower and that the wood is denser. However, working with cuts lower, provided risks above are not imminent, is a lot easier. FSBurt made a similar point about driving wedges.
Also, on steeper ground, it is impossible to do much without extensive springboarding.
I added the photo below just for admiration. I've never even seen an operation like this before.
At your local mills, do they require a flat butt?
That is some picture SmokechaseII. I get a little weezy over a drop off like that. Have read about the old timers with the metal tip boards. They would stand on the board and hook one foot under the board then jump/hop the board around to a different angle. I would have a real hard time doing that over a drop off.
Tree Sling'r
Addicted to ArboristSite
Take this for what it is worth... no picture to prove it.
In 1997 I was falling around Truckee, Ca on Donner Pass and had a tree that marmed into three about 7 feet up. The DBH was around 8 feet before the marms.
I fell a tree up against the truck to stand on and it was just enough to get the first and second trees faced up and cut. Each one was around 30" in diameter. In order the get down the third and final tree I fell the entire base then long butted it to process it from there.
It was pretty steep and I was pretty spooked on the first two but it all worked out in the end. Every since then I have packed a disposable camera in my pack.
Like I said, no proof - so take it for whats its worth.
In 1997 I was falling around Truckee, Ca on Donner Pass and had a tree that marmed into three about 7 feet up. The DBH was around 8 feet before the marms.
I fell a tree up against the truck to stand on and it was just enough to get the first and second trees faced up and cut. Each one was around 30" in diameter. In order the get down the third and final tree I fell the entire base then long butted it to process it from there.
It was pretty steep and I was pretty spooked on the first two but it all worked out in the end. Every since then I have packed a disposable camera in my pack.
Like I said, no proof - so take it for whats its worth.
fishhuntcutwood
Full wraps and long bars!!!!!!!!!
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Agreed. Nice Humboldt man!
And smoke, what a cool pic of the faller on the spring board. I've never cut from one....I'm sure it'd take some getting used to.
Great pics burt and smoke......I also cut with the upsdie down notch lol Thats wot i call it ...I asked my forster how many does it he said I was the only one he has working for him to do it...I know I use it to get the most of of the log....
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
The butt had old fire damage in it so in the interest of better holding wood I faced up higher than normal. Boring over you're head does take alot of getting used to, especially when using long bars (that was a three foot bar on my 066) it makes getting the back cut level very difficult and requires GREAT care when starting the bore or kick back can result in a VERY UGLY manner!! For those of you who are viewing that are NOT PRO's DO NOT ATTEMPT THAT CUT!!!! VERY DEADLY!!!! I wouldn't recomend anyone to try that that has not had alot of PRO experanice (firewood cutting does NOT count!!!) to even consider that! I don't like having to carry an actual spring board with me but they are much nicer to work off of than the sapling poles I normally use!LOL I had to take a 14' cut off the butt to get to sound wood.
smokechase II
Addicted to ArboristSite
wood use
Lonnie:
Humboldt’s getting the most wood out of a tree can be a miss-statement.
Look at Ryan's tree with the Humboldt in it. {If it were solid all the way down.}
Assume that you do not want the butt swell to get in the way. Then this Humboldt is placed perfectly and the Humboldt is the best choice for wood utilization. The face comes out of the stump and not the butt log. Same call if you're dropping downhill.
However, if you want the most wood to make it to the mill. You need to go with a conventional face. What were talking here is a lower stump than a Humboldt can achieve and utilizing the fiber from above the back-cut area and that means less waste.
What about the open face? Often not a bad choice for utilization. It can be a problem when compared with the conventional as the pull out from the hinge on the conventional does not come from the lumber area of the butt log. It comes from the fiber area. This can be mitigated a bit with center face boring and side cuts, sometimes.
The Humboldt also has lot of problems with this pull out. (This can be mitigated a bit with center face boring and side cuts, sometimes.) This is why my Father-in-Law wouldn't usually allow Humboldt’s for his mill in WESTERN OREGON. He was one of those Mennonite ancestry folks that had lived through the depression. Didn't waste nothing.
Look, I know that chipboards aren't esthetic, but they do a lot for us.
The shortest stumps, if cutting is safe, rule.
Lonnie:
Humboldt’s getting the most wood out of a tree can be a miss-statement.
Look at Ryan's tree with the Humboldt in it. {If it were solid all the way down.}
Assume that you do not want the butt swell to get in the way. Then this Humboldt is placed perfectly and the Humboldt is the best choice for wood utilization. The face comes out of the stump and not the butt log. Same call if you're dropping downhill.
However, if you want the most wood to make it to the mill. You need to go with a conventional face. What were talking here is a lower stump than a Humboldt can achieve and utilizing the fiber from above the back-cut area and that means less waste.
What about the open face? Often not a bad choice for utilization. It can be a problem when compared with the conventional as the pull out from the hinge on the conventional does not come from the lumber area of the butt log. It comes from the fiber area. This can be mitigated a bit with center face boring and side cuts, sometimes.
The Humboldt also has lot of problems with this pull out. (This can be mitigated a bit with center face boring and side cuts, sometimes.) This is why my Father-in-Law wouldn't usually allow Humboldt’s for his mill in WESTERN OREGON. He was one of those Mennonite ancestry folks that had lived through the depression. Didn't waste nothing.
Look, I know that chipboards aren't esthetic, but they do a lot for us.
The shortest stumps, if cutting is safe, rule.
FSburt
ArboristSite Operative
Slight mishap with holding wood
here are some pics of a tree that had one side of the holding wood cut off with disasterous results. This was one of the incidents that caused CDF to start a chainsaw training program in CA.
here are some pics of a tree that had one side of the holding wood cut off with disasterous results. This was one of the incidents that caused CDF to start a chainsaw training program in CA.
Ryan Willock
Addicted to ArboristSite
Opps! Did anyone get hurt?
FSburt
ArboristSite Operative
No Ryan the person that fell the tree was out single jacking and was at the stump when it all went down. Not sure if he is still employed by the agency or not last I heard it was not looking good for him. This happened 3 yrs ago.
Davey Dog
ArboristSite Operative
here are some pics of a tree that had one side of the holding wood cut off with disasterous results. This was one of the incidents that caused CDF to start a chainsaw training program in CA.
Holding wood mishap...... All I see in those pics is a BREAK CUT that twisted...
That back cut is way to high for the face.. Look at those pics again.....
You can clearly see where the back cut and the face cuts meet... There is of course a 5-6 inch difference in the location, but it was cut all the way through.. There is no hinge in those pics....
The person who did that is really lucky that they only droped the tree on that truck.... There could have been a person standing there.
I am not trying to sound like a jerk, but people need to take that into consideration... Our work is dangerous enough, with out people ((who dont know exactly what they are doing)) coming out and doing that.....
