Fair cost for firewood???

[HemiMoparGuy]

Hey Guys,

I looked on Craigs List to see the average rate that firewood sells for in my area. about $45 per face cord. My woods is mostly ash and has been infected by the evil ash borer. It's been a losing battle trying to clean it up. Money is still pretty tight in the area, so I thought it'd be a good idea to ask for labor in exchange for firewood. I have a bunch cut and stacked for sale at the $45, but I was thinking of posting on CL something along the lines of if they help cut, haul and stack a face cord, they can have a face cord for free. Does that sound like a fair trade off? Or does it seem too high or too low? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thank You in Advance,
Eric

 

[Wildwinger]

if they help cut, haul and stack a face cord, they can have a face cord for free. Does that sound like a fair trade off?

Sounds pretty bad for you

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

Yeah, that's why I decided to ask. How many face cord do you think they should help with for a free face cord?

 

[Wildwinger]

Two for you, one for them..?

Unless you have more than you can store/sell/use and just want the woods cleaned up

Could you offer free wood (cut your own) on CL?

 

[ChoppyChoppy]

$135 for a cord is what it's selling at?

How long does it take to cut and split a cord of wood? I do about 1-1.5 cords an hr so trading $45 worth of wood would be a horrible deal for me.... Basically would be paying $45+ an hour.

 

[7sleeper]

I can I work for you, if you include transportation for me....

7

 

[svk]

In this situation you are bartering goods of high quality for labor from someone of unknown work ethic. Knowing people these days I don't see it working out as a win-win unless you are extremely lucky.

 

[Hinerman]

This stuff is too complicated for me. If they are a decent worker pay them $10-11 per hour,,,in firewood if that is what they want. Even then you could end up losing depending on how much firewood you get processed. Too many variables: type of chainsaw, sharp chains, dirty wood, type of splitter, access to wood, any other available equipment, piling limbs, etc.

What you might do is cut all the wood up and stage it. Let laborer split all day for 8 hours (or however long), that way you take many of the variables out of the equation. And, hope he doesn't smash a finger in the process...If he can split 3 cord in 8 hours, let him have one or 2/3 of one.

 

[motoman3b]

I've done the 50/50 split for labor thing, I'd come out with my splitter and split logs in trade for half which worked out pretty well but with all the wind storms lately and a lot of the ash bored trees are rotting at stump level and tipping over there is pretty much tons of wood to be cut just finding time to do it is another story, I think the 50/50 deal is good if your looking to get your woods cleaned up fast and help someone out, I know personally I wouldn't do it for anything less then 50/50

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

Thanks for the replies. Lots of good info, made me think of more details to add to the equation to help find a central response with all of your guys' ideas. It's just about all dead ash 3-6 inches in diameter, mostly in the 4 inch range, so splitting is not necessary nor planned. While it would be nice, I'm not looking to create a firewood enterprise, heck, I have had people I associate with, some on personal levels, some casually on business levels, all needing wood to heat their workshops where they make money, some as a hobby/second job income, some as a primary income asking around about firewood...I told them I have plenty of wood, free, come get it, I'll help, I have saws, four wheeler/trailer to haul it from the woods to the truck. The worst of it that I'd like cleaned up is within about 200 ft of the clearing at the end of the driveway...but apparently it is too much work, yet they cry that they can't get their shop warm enough to work, and cry about the price of firewood. One guy came 2-3 times, worked long enough to fill his truck up and left. So you see, even at a cheap rate, at that point it was all the wood you want and I'll help cut and load, and still couldn't get decent help. I'm mostly interested in getting the woods cleaned up more so than making money, though a few extra beer dollars wouldn't hurt.

Again thank you for the suggestions, but with this said, does your suggestion change?

Thanks Again,

Eric

 

[svk]

Sounds like you are being pretty generous, anyone who gripes about needing wood but won't take you up on that offer is a fool. I guess you are better off cutting as much as you can yourself and taking 100% of the wood or profit.

I'd still be leery about letting unknown folks work for you as one injury wipes out everything.

I've hired friends/kids of friends to help me process wood but they are only allowed to move rounds and splits. I do all of the cutting and splitting.

 

[greendohn]

They need to help clean up or NO deals..make that very clear from the beginning.
Most guys around here that NEED firewood are worthless drunks and/or think my name is Obama..
IF they are good help,,, hard workers and making your life easier, have their own equipment and you really want to get it done,,50/50, but they'd have to be some good help and I'd really be wanting to get it done. Small trees make a lot of brush and not a lot firewood.
To hell with 'em otherwise.

 

[Steve NW WI]

This is gonna sound like sacrilege, but at those prices, the size of the wood, and lack of good help, you're probably better off just making big piles and having a bonfire or 20.

I like to use whatever wood I cut, but at that size, it's really just a step above brush anyway.

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

This is gonna sound like sacrilege, but at those prices, the size of the wood, and lack of good help, you're probably better off just making big piles and having a bonfire or 20.

I like to use whatever wood I cut, but at that size, it's really just a step above brush anyway.

I guess I don't understand why...when the wood is bigger than that, people split it into about this size, so why do you see it as basically brush?

 

[7sleeper]

I guess I don't understand why...when the wood is bigger than that, people split it into about this size, so why do you see it as basically brush?

I see it similar to you. Any size thicker than an inch sounds like great firewood to me, but I know the constant moaning/ whining/ whatever but too lazy to get their butt away from TV or the I-net. They don't get a twig from me!

Hey wait, I'm on the I-Net too...

7

 

[Steve NW WI]

Call it death by 1000 cuts. A 3" diameter 16" round is 113 cubic inches, or about 1200 pieces per cord (using 80cf of solid wood for my math here - full cord, not "face cord")

The other end of your spectrum, 6" is 452ci. That's only 300ish pieces per cord.

Get to 12" wood, and you're looking at 1800ci, less than 75 per cord. Add in 2 (3 with a small wedge or splitting by hand) splits to get 4 pieces, and it's still more productive in my book. Also, although not probably a big issue with the wood you have, split wood seasons faster than in the round.

1200 cuts per cord is a recipe to get real good at sharpening chains, real fast.

Forgive me if I'm reading too much into this, but it seems like it's as much an eyesore and or fire hazard right now as it is potential firewood. It's faster to chop it to a length you can carry, toss it on a pile and light a match to make those problems go away. At the prices you see for firewood locally, it's what I'd do if I didn't burn wood myself. If I did, I'd be putting up as much as I could for my own use and eff everyone else. Poor help is worse than no help, and good help ain't easy to find.

 

[Marshy]

Thanks for the replies. Lots of good info, made me think of more details to add to the equation to help find a central response with all of your guys' ideas. It's just about all dead ash 3-6 inches in diameter, mostly in the 4 inch range, so splitting is not necessary nor planned. While it would be nice, I'm not looking to create a firewood enterprise, heck, I have had people I associate with, some on personal levels, some casually on business levels, all needing wood to heat their workshops where they make money, some as a hobby/second job income, some as a primary income asking around about firewood...I told them I have plenty of wood, free, come get it, I'll help, I have saws, four wheeler/trailer to haul it from the woods to the truck. The worst of it that I'd like cleaned up is within about 200 ft of the clearing at the end of the driveway...but apparently it is too much work, yet they cry that they can't get their shop warm enough to work, and cry about the price of firewood. One guy came 2-3 times, worked long enough to fill his truck up and left. So you see, even at a cheap rate, at that point it was all the wood you want and I'll help cut and load, and still couldn't get decent help. I'm mostly interested in getting the woods cleaned up more so than making money, though a few extra beer dollars wouldn't hurt.

Again thank you for the suggestions, but with this said, does your suggestion change?

Thanks Again,

Eric

No splitting? Wow, you have it about as ideal as it gets. I could probably manage to drop and buck a cord an hour. Then come buy and load the rounds and then stack. Hardest part of firewood (splitting) isnt even a factor. Not sure i understand why you need help unless your just trying to increase your productivity or you have physical limitations to doing the work yourself.

The problem your going to run into is people that need money are not going to want to work for wood. And the people who need wood are not going to want process 1 cord to get 1/2, unless they are desprate. Most people that scrounge for firewood to cut end up with the whole tree for all their effort so I think the population of interested people if going to be very small. Then factor in their work ethic... forget about it.

IMO it sounds like your asking people to come do your property maintenance and pay you for their service by keeping some of the wood they cut. Sorry but I laugh at those "offers". I keep what I cut and dont do clean up. Good luck.

 

[1 stihl nut]

Call it death by 1000 cuts.

1200 cuts per cord is a recipe to get real good at sharpening chains, real fast.

When you cut a cross section of one square inch, it yields 16 cubic inches of wood. (@16"). Doesn't matter what the diameter of the piece is. Other factors aside, chains get dull from amount of wood cut, (cross section) not number of cuts made.

Smaller wood probably stacks denser so you'll get more wood in a stacked cord.

Anyhow. ..maybe my point is math can both oversimplify and overcomplicate things.

 

[Steve NW WI]

"Other factors" are the big factors. Each cut is a chance to hit dirt, whether it be the ground or embedded in the tree. Smaller wood has more surface area per cubic inch, so more "dirty" wood than clean. If the bark hasn't fallen off yet, even more so.

In the end, it all boils down to how bad the OP wants these gone, and how fast. If I had 10 dead trees on my property that size, they'd be firewood. If it were 1000, I'd be exploring other options.

 

[HemiMoparGuy]

"Other factors" are the big factors. Each cut is a chance to hit dirt, whether it be the ground or embedded in the tree. Smaller wood has more surface area per cubic inch, so more "dirty" wood than clean. If the bark hasn't fallen off yet, even more so.

In the end, it all boils down to how bad the OP wants these gone, and how fast. If I had 10 dead trees on my property that size, they'd be firewood. If it were 1000, I'd be exploring other options.

That's the issue, it is close to the 1000 range. I spend an entire spring and summer cleaning up and getting it looking nice from the road and in view from windows, just start working on the area behind the pole barn then the end of summer/fall/winter storms roll in and the areas I had recently finished look untouched again...it's been this way for 5 yrs.

I love working in the woods but hate doing it alone, I do if I have to, but become procrastinate lately because there is SO much and I like focusing on one task for periods. I don't care if it's hauling or running the saw, but I hate making a few cuts, then having to dig myself out, make a few more cuts, dig more out, etc. I kind of get your point about the more dirty cuts being harder on the chain, but it all needs cut and cleaned up anyway. I cut it into 6-8 ft lengths and throw it on the trailer behind the four wheeler and dump it by the pole barn. My dad and his sometimes his girlfriend would then get out electric chainsaws and log up the pieces and stack it.

Now my dad has gone to Florida for the season, so I am trying to do it alone. So I have 4 chainsaws total to cut up the wood. I usually run my Stihl til it's out of gas (and ready to be sharpened) then run dad's Husky til the same. Load up the trailer and take the saws up to the barn, dump the load, cut it up with 2 electrics, sharpen all of the chains, fill with gas and repeat. I have a sharpener, not using a file, so it's not that bad sharpening chains for me. Also, I find there is still maintenance to be done on a splitter if the trees were bigger, plus the extra handling of each log to cut it, pick it up set it on the splitter, pick up each half to put on the splitter, then finally stack...that would pretty well even out the extra sharpening of chains.

You said exploring other options if 1000...ideas?