ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
well there you go CANADA land of the informed and educated..cor i wish i where in your shoes 
Fall Or Prune
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ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
well i,ll be using a bucket for most of the week ..and i love it..twice as much £££££ for half the amount of work ..unlike you i guess i havent got climbers who can be up the top of an 80 ft oak in 2 minutes..so ill just have too do with a bucket..and give my climbers a rest.. oh yes we,ll be using it for pruning aswell..and the pruning will be carried out to BS3998..by the way any tips on selling pruning much apreciated thanks
???? iwas going too look for some tips on your website looks like its down
???? iwas going too look for some tips on your website looks like its down
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Buckets are cool, but I bet I can get in the top of a tree a lot quicker than you might think!
ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Buckets are cool, but I bet I can get in the top of a tree a lot quicker than you might think!
ive never seen a climber get to the top of a tree as quick as a bucket can ..but anyway i know a bucket cant get into tight spots..before anyone says..thats why i climb and employe climbers....rborist im what you call multifunctional i can climb and use a bucket...........
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
The option of using BOTH is the best thing!
Nickrosis
Manned by Boderators
The site's working, but some of the links are bad. Looks like they're referring to local files instead of files on the server.
I think we have a long way to go as a profession in our self-portrayal. Certainly, I'll be the first to admit that education is limited in its effectiveness. We lose prospective jobs all the time because they're looking for the low bid, which presumably drives a truck with the sides falling off.
But we want to work for the people who want to maintain their trees like they see us maintain our equipment. If it's all about price, we can't compete. If they want the tree topped and won't be deterred, let someone else top it so you're not labeled the butcher.**
When something isn't working, tinker with it. Don't junk the trunk without looking under the hood. Maybe a sales book could offer some pointers or a sales course could change the direction. Consider writing your own literature because it gives you the credibility for writing it....you demonstrate that you are the professional. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their business; I sincerely want to help people who want it and help the profession as a whole. I'm dedicated to it for life, even if it means that I'll get called a girl by someone.
**Disclaimer: If your family won't eat or there is a life-or-death issue or if topping is the only solution, I say top the tree. I've seen the most respected of tree people top trees if it was to save the tree (top broken out with nothing to cut back to, etc.).
I think we have a long way to go as a profession in our self-portrayal. Certainly, I'll be the first to admit that education is limited in its effectiveness. We lose prospective jobs all the time because they're looking for the low bid, which presumably drives a truck with the sides falling off.
But we want to work for the people who want to maintain their trees like they see us maintain our equipment. If it's all about price, we can't compete. If they want the tree topped and won't be deterred, let someone else top it so you're not labeled the butcher.**
When something isn't working, tinker with it. Don't junk the trunk without looking under the hood. Maybe a sales book could offer some pointers or a sales course could change the direction. Consider writing your own literature because it gives you the credibility for writing it....you demonstrate that you are the professional. I'm not trying to tell anyone how to run their business; I sincerely want to help people who want it and help the profession as a whole. I'm dedicated to it for life, even if it means that I'll get called a girl by someone.
**Disclaimer: If your family won't eat or there is a life-or-death issue or if topping is the only solution, I say top the tree. I've seen the most respected of tree people top trees if it was to save the tree (top broken out with nothing to cut back to, etc.).
rumination
ArboristSite Guru
seems like the level of tree care awareness in the general public is geographically variable...
MasterBlaster
TreeHouse Elder
Just like the killer bud... :alien:
ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
too be perfectly honest i have been thinking about going on a sales course...just a one day course nothing too fancy..i think it would be worth a try...i can sell just about anything not being big headed[tree related]...but i find selling pruning a struggle.
.talking about people being educated on tree related problems etc..i do not think this is a geographical problem i think its world wide from what ive read on this site..id like too be wrong
.talking about people being educated on tree related problems etc..i do not think this is a geographical problem i think its world wide from what ive read on this site..id like too be wrong
I would like to respond to a few issues here...
Regarding the perceived image of our careers (yes careers not jobs), it is up to us all to maintain our professional respectability. In my area, arborists are well-respected. The general populace here are sophisticated, educated, financially successful, and know the value of an experienced provider of specialized services. These are people who have strong emotional attachment to their trees, some of whom are very saddened by their loss. They are often active preservationists within the community. They consider us the physicians who have the ability to extend the lives of their friends, or are capable of protecting their financial assets. We need to play this role well. Every day we are being visually interviewed by the public, and if we act and look like we deserve respect, we are a bit more likely to get it. The uniform is an important psychological tool used by law enforcement, doctors, and attorneys. But their mindset, verbal scripts, and tactics to handle people are what really makes them pros. We should adopt the same system.
Yes, there is no shortage of people who neither understand nor respect the value of our profession, those who are uneducated on the subject, or those who play games with our time. But we should not allow ourselves to become demoralized or have our focus derailed by them. We should imagine that the more sophisticated potential clientelle occaisionally read these words on this forum, and we must keep our professional game faces on, as another way to maintain our collective perceived image. Rather than focus too much on negatives.
And about frustration and burn-out: I don't like to see, for instance, a professional climber, one who is very accomplished, one who is d_mned good at what he does, about ready to hang up his gear. An individual in this moment of doubt needs to know he has options - gradually transitioning into managing, educating, training, and supervising others may be a way to keep the positive mindset. In the meantime, shifting the focus to a total immersion in customer service orientation often gets positive feedback and compliments coming in, helping to turn one's outlook around.
He is never broke who possesses great intellectual wealth and experience. And he will never be broken if he never lets an opponent own space in their head.
Regarding the perceived image of our careers (yes careers not jobs), it is up to us all to maintain our professional respectability. In my area, arborists are well-respected. The general populace here are sophisticated, educated, financially successful, and know the value of an experienced provider of specialized services. These are people who have strong emotional attachment to their trees, some of whom are very saddened by their loss. They are often active preservationists within the community. They consider us the physicians who have the ability to extend the lives of their friends, or are capable of protecting their financial assets. We need to play this role well. Every day we are being visually interviewed by the public, and if we act and look like we deserve respect, we are a bit more likely to get it. The uniform is an important psychological tool used by law enforcement, doctors, and attorneys. But their mindset, verbal scripts, and tactics to handle people are what really makes them pros. We should adopt the same system.
Yes, there is no shortage of people who neither understand nor respect the value of our profession, those who are uneducated on the subject, or those who play games with our time. But we should not allow ourselves to become demoralized or have our focus derailed by them. We should imagine that the more sophisticated potential clientelle occaisionally read these words on this forum, and we must keep our professional game faces on, as another way to maintain our collective perceived image. Rather than focus too much on negatives.
And about frustration and burn-out: I don't like to see, for instance, a professional climber, one who is very accomplished, one who is d_mned good at what he does, about ready to hang up his gear. An individual in this moment of doubt needs to know he has options - gradually transitioning into managing, educating, training, and supervising others may be a way to keep the positive mindset. In the meantime, shifting the focus to a total immersion in customer service orientation often gets positive feedback and compliments coming in, helping to turn one's outlook around.
He is never broke who possesses great intellectual wealth and experience. And he will never be broken if he never lets an opponent own space in their head.
Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
I can somewhat sympathize with Brian's frustration.
He is a contract climber, that means he isn't making any sales.
I am in this boat of being a hired gun now as well.
By the time a gun shows up, the job is already sold. The chance to convince the customer what they are about to do to their trees is detrimental is greatly diminished. When I owned my own operation, I could sell good work or no work at all. Potential customers either bought my service (quality tree CARE) or they went elsewhere.
I work for some highly knowledgeable people here. Others just sell misinformation and fear. One lady I sub for means good but is uneducated and sells bad work. Odd stuff like reducing weight by severe thinning cuts (lion's tailing)
My outright refusal to do such things has greatly stressed our business relationship, but I think my refusal is getting her to start questioning what she sells.
It sounds very concieted, but I have never understood why a business owner or customer would hire someone with more physical talent, experience, training, and knowledge, just to ignore their advice.
He is a contract climber, that means he isn't making any sales.
I am in this boat of being a hired gun now as well.
By the time a gun shows up, the job is already sold. The chance to convince the customer what they are about to do to their trees is detrimental is greatly diminished. When I owned my own operation, I could sell good work or no work at all. Potential customers either bought my service (quality tree CARE) or they went elsewhere.
I work for some highly knowledgeable people here. Others just sell misinformation and fear. One lady I sub for means good but is uneducated and sells bad work. Odd stuff like reducing weight by severe thinning cuts (lion's tailing)
My outright refusal to do such things has greatly stressed our business relationship, but I think my refusal is getting her to start questioning what she sells.
It sounds very concieted, but I have never understood why a business owner or customer would hire someone with more physical talent, experience, training, and knowledge, just to ignore their advice.
Tom Dunlap
Addicted to ArboristSite
Guy and Rocky,
Would you two consider taking your fights off-line? They get to be distracting and stink things up.
What a contrast, Carl, who is Nick's junior, giving advicee, which is accepted, and Nick told that he is a pup. Seemed like the same message to me.
Attitude is what's key. Three people look at a half full glass of water. One says its half full the other half empty. Only the engineer says that its twice as big as it needs to be. Which way do you look at life?
After meeting many arbos on line and having the opportunity to trael to their homes and work with them I have come to the conclusion that there are hacks and outstanding arbos everywhere. In some areas more of one than the other too.
Making change is difficult. Most times it takes a lot of gut work. Don't give up.
Tom
Would you two consider taking your fights off-line? They get to be distracting and stink things up.
What a contrast, Carl, who is Nick's junior, giving advicee, which is accepted, and Nick told that he is a pup. Seemed like the same message to me.
Attitude is what's key. Three people look at a half full glass of water. One says its half full the other half empty. Only the engineer says that its twice as big as it needs to be. Which way do you look at life?
After meeting many arbos on line and having the opportunity to trael to their homes and work with them I have come to the conclusion that there are hacks and outstanding arbos everywhere. In some areas more of one than the other too.
Making change is difficult. Most times it takes a lot of gut work. Don't give up.
Tom
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
I like these forums some times. This is cut and dry in my opinion. I hate to sound like a prick I really do. But all the discusion over if the tree is bad or if its ok all depending and this and that.
Based on what the thread starter said, removals are less hastle and haggle without question as far as dealing with the customer goes. based on the original thread. Cut it down is pretty straight forward to me and them.
Also, stating that pruning can be done lots and a removal once, ( I don't know how to say this without sound like a jerk but) it is painfully obvious and should be stated with the referance, that it is obvious. I would like to find a human that wouldn't figure that one out. And I don't mean to insult those who used it.
Now the stump thats a different matter. I geuss the stump can be as bad as that one stick of dead wood 80 feet up.
Based on what the thread starter said, removals are less hastle and haggle without question as far as dealing with the customer goes. based on the original thread. Cut it down is pretty straight forward to me and them.
Also, stating that pruning can be done lots and a removal once, ( I don't know how to say this without sound like a jerk but) it is painfully obvious and should be stated with the referance, that it is obvious. I would like to find a human that wouldn't figure that one out. And I don't mean to insult those who used it.
Now the stump thats a different matter. I geuss the stump can be as bad as that one stick of dead wood 80 feet up.
Nathan Wreyford
ArboristSite Operative
Dan, please don't lump me with the tree whores. That is what I am trying to avoid..... :angel:
I am pushing for the right thing even if I lose out in the short run, I think in the long run, I will get more respect from my target group of clients (providers of quality tree care) A proactive approach to branding. I am starting out new here so I have the opportunity of keeping a good reputation as opposed to turning around a damaged one.
If you don't make an effort to brand yourself, someone else will.
It does get scrappy here at times...that is what makes it Asite and keeps JPS busy
John Paul Sanborn
Above average climber
At first glance it would seem to be obviouse, but there are so many people willing to cut anything down whenever the property ownber askes.
I've taled people into saving trees on a number of oocasions.
The point of the statement is that in the long run you will get more work out of tree maintainence the tree removals. It is much easier to build a buisness and sell high end tree maintainance. removals is just running after lowball bids.
Trees Company
ArboristSite Member
I agree with you John. I'm just refering to the diffenence when a customer says prune or remove giving that, it is necesary. I mean once weve established between need for removal or pruning then a removal becomes more straight forward in most cases, is what I was saying. I too would rather spare a tree if at all possible. We tend to talk alot of people out of removals. I apprieciate you input .
ROLLACOSTA
Addicted to ArboristSite
the high end market [quality pruning] is only a very small market ,there isnt enough work for everyone...i realy need a bigger peice of the pie..so im always chaseing contract work ..i like dealing with people who only want high quality work or work to british pruning standerds...the trouble is though when there is no contract work..educating domestic tree owners realy iratates.. i will keep on preaching ,but when they do not listern thats when it make me mad 
