Falling with Dutchman

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TheTreeSpyder

TheTreeSpyder

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Yeah, probably like hearing y'all say scarf!

Yes, but jump cut would be overcut all the way across. A side dutchman just on lean side; like a tapered is just on opposite of lean side; both to grant some control over sidelean or some obstacle on side of path trying to push tree off course. Note a side push from brushing a tree on left; would be fought/ negotiated with opposite strategy as a side lean to left; for just as tapered vs. dutch; pull and push are oppositely applied values/ equal - opposites.

If no side lean, then the rear stretching/ pulling of fibers are even on either side (L or R); and likewise the compression on front of hinge and compression /push on close is even across the face. Because the powersource/ tree force is balanced side to side/ no side lean. In a sidelean, with a standard 'strip' hinge evenly across; the pulls and pushes in the hinge and face are not even. A left side lean stretches the right rear fibers the most; just as at close the left front face hits harder than the right one. If the power source/ tree force has a right lean, then left is stretched more, and right smacks harder on the face at close.

A tapered hinge on right to control a left lean; accentuates this by giving more tension pull earlier and stronger. A side dutch on left to left lean, will give the harder hitting left side an earlier close, to give more push through a longer part of the travel on hinge. It will also, cause an earlier rip on the left side of hinge, forcing a kind of tapered hinge across i think.

Also, to get more technical, the push from dutchman on one side is only in 'phase1' of it's travel i think. At this time more force is on the hinge, so i call it the pivot, and the push at dutch close a helpful push. But, once the force of the closed compression is the greatest force, then fairly i think it is the pivot, thus giving the opposite side of hinge (perhaps tapered) more leverage by distance and angle both!

A change in pivot is most powerful, for it alters the leveraged angle and length between the load and control both at the same time. Here, the angle of the Center of Gravity of the spar to pivot is reduced if it runs to this close, instead of further back to the hinge, as like the distance to this new pivot is less too. While, as shown earlier, the distance and angle to the tapered hinge is increased. This gives the load / tree side less leverage; while giving more to the support/ tensioned hold side at the same time.

A tapered hinge alone, gives more distance from pivot to stretched fiber, and a more inline/ better angle of support, then more fiber in these positions. A side dutch alone can give a helpful push in phase1. But in phase2/ as close becomes more loaded and takes over as pivot the adjustment is not singular, but a compound one. Like on a see-saw; you only have so much available length to leverage. Moving the center pivot some to one side; gives more leverage to one side; like you extended that side. But, it also takes leverage away from the opposite side, like it was cut shorter. So, in 1 move; instead of these 2 separate ones, a pivotal change is a compounding change; giving more power to lift less etc.
 
beowulf343

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clearance said:
Who here uses a Dutchman on purpose to fall with? Explain it and say what you do i.e. tree service, faller etc. Talk about the pros and cons, lets hear it,
I don't use the dutchman. Once had a guy try to show me how its done and he ended up dropping the tree right on a fence. I just laughed and told him thanks but i'll stick with a regular notch and backcut. And if i'm worried about which way the tree will go, i'll just climb it and put a rope in it. (Of course most of the stuff I drop are just stems and are rarely over 20 feet tall. On taller stuff maybe it has a use, I don't know.)
 
woodchux

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On rare occasion when my notch looks like its off a little, I'll stick a piece of wood in the notch to compensate. Usually though i'll just tapper the hinge or re-cut the notch.
 
Jim1NZ

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I get it! Thanks spider.

Need to find a suitable tree to try it on now. Il be extra careful of a barber chair and make sure i select a suitable species too!
 
arboralliance

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Giving this thread a go...

Ekka, I've been in and out of the Aussie logging forest since a young tacker and known it as the "Flying Dutchman" it is like picking up the log and swinging it away from you much like I guess you would do with a dutch man you perhaps are in an altercation with...

I describe this (as being extremely dangerous) to students, apprentices and employees as "relieving the hinge" (invariably one of the main reasons of mistake in felling) which for me means cutting the hinge as desired (facing out to the direction of lean and or desired fell) till you begin to get momentum then cutting the hinge through 2/3 - 3/4 (or cutting towards the direction you want the tree to go/spin) so the second face is made in the direction of the larger portion of the hinge pie and therefore forcing the hinge to act as a screwing gate or turnbuckle or such and at times I have been able to make very large trees pivot almost 180 degrees on this remaining section of hinge (also been able to make trees "rock" side to side as they go down weaving through other trees even under pre-tensioned winch load)...

The reason i have used this is mostly to avoid obstacles in the forest (urban or otherwise) or to get momentum so the log launches from the stump jumping obstacles near the stump/tree and to "use" an undesirable lean to force the tree in an arc away from the direction of lean when no other means can be used to correct the lean (very large trees where wedging will break the hinge)...

(It is absolutely critical to have a very large escape route area cleared rather than the legal requirement of at least two at no more than 45 degree oposite to fall line...)

I would however reiterate I served a very long and rigorous apprenticeship in the field and have been handling chainsaws and climbing and cutting (including body parts and yes sometimes my own) for over twenty five years and I would not recommend this technique to anyone...

I avoid using this technique at all costs...

One of my former students sms'ed me yesterday on his way to the hospital in an ambulance after self rescuing from the tree, another former student is still recovering (and will never fully recover) a near fatal fall from a tree from a few months ago, I take this very, very personally along with my fellow instructors...

Please, ALWAYS wear your helmets around trees and chin strapped climbing helmets in trees, chaps and all other PPE and ALWAYS USE CHAINSAWS WITH TWO HANDS APPLYING THE CHAIN BREAK IMMEDIATELY AFTER CUTTING...
 
TheTreeSpyder

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Non-Generic commands to 'split faces'

180 turn is mighty dang good, an extremity i back off from! Takes a lot of slamming forward fast and hard into the step of the dutchman confidentially, to get that kind of output force to turn whole tree that far. This is where a kerf dutch won't help, but rather a narrow face on lean side or a block in face. Because we need more 'run' hard into the dutch/ step, than the quick close of a kerf doesn't allow that much buildup of force/ speed.

This is responding force, so the more force input, the more force output. So slamming forward hard/fast, harder leans forward or to side etc. give more force input, to get more force output. You can get these things to allow tree to move forward/down about 10 degrees and then veer off to side. Just split the openness of each side of the face to give each side a different stop/ limiter. Also, the harder the closing side wood is, the more response. Usually both sides of hinge pull at once against each other, then push at once against each other. IN step dutchman at close of 1st side, we remove the pull into lean and push into lean (an upgrade); but also we push and pull away from lean in concert(another upgrade).

Much of this 98% of the time you keep in mind, so that you don't invoke these forces accidentally (by crossing face cuts, having decay on 1 side of narrow face and not other etc.); for they now can be seen as mechanical commands loaded with all the tree's force at once! i've used most climbing, then you must rely on kerf dutch, or making narrow face in one side; because a rock or block might not be easily available and at all the angles (and movements of limb) a rock or block might fall out of the face. To make narrow face in one side, make narrow face full across, then enlarge face on goto or opposite of lean side. To leave a 'split face'(in my terms) that gives different mechanical commands to each side of the face. Rather than both generically the same command (open or close, to invoke pull or push respectively from the available tree force); a 'spit face' gives different commands to either side of face, operating them seperately. This takes force that if across full face could shear spar into barberchair, and makes it into useful force. This could be barberchair force converted into split face/ non-generic control is idea of this whole page of animations

If you can get a top to fall forward (and gain speed) then turn to right(as all that speed and weight slam close); you can 'squiggle' out of some situations, when that is the only path around another limb etc. Or if obstacle is forward and on one side, can guesstimate narrow part of hinge face, so that it closes and pushes off to the side, orchestrated in concert/ at the same time as obstachle is pushing soft part of head (might let head compress in some first, for more push out when face closes on that side) off to the same side etc.

A contradiction in use, would be if using motion of limb(especially horizontal) on hinge to help further pretighten line before tearoff (like in "Rock Around the Clock Strategy ); the close of the dutch gives support/ push up, thereby doesn't load and pretretch the line as much. For, they both only have the finite tree force as input, and if dutch is supporting it, then that much of force is off line. So, guesstimate a wider face on dutch side to allow more prestretch of line, to get it pulling to side hard, in concert with the push off of dutch closing on opposite side. Noting, that working the pulls in rope fiber, is same lessons as working pulls in hinge fiber; both are to pull away from lean, inline is most powerful angle/ but angled gives direction change etc.


This is/ can be dangerous stuff; outlawed some places etc. Enter at your own risk(and those you bring with you):angry2:

Mostly, keep in mind to make perfectly meeting faces, to not invoke these things/ mechanical commands accidentally. If dabbling/trying; i'd recommend staying in your league on the ground; but also remember it takes some weight/speed/lean to make it work; to show yourself what is possible. Then, use carefully in tree where stuff is smaller, and more likely to be horizontal and fall away from you; rather than having stuff close on either side while whole tree is changing direction etc. while possibly looming more overhead!

Must take a solid/solid face wood to work, so in dry/dead (but not rotted) can make up for some loss of elasticty on the pull/anti-lean/ tapered hinge side.
 
xtremetrees

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Climber killer

I didnt understand the deadly "barber chair" until I saw your video spydy.
Now I watch my undercut and ensure my upper cut meets exactly and not haveing any ?"bypass"? Most helpful to me spydy
 
Jim1NZ

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So spidy, on the leaning side where you cut the kurf in the scarf, how far as a general rule would you make the kurf cut into the scarf?

So do do you end up with no hinge wood at all on the side of the kurf cut?
 
TheTreeSpyder

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Multidimensional answer, of a few considerations...

Kerf closes are early close; so wouldn't use if needed late close; would use rock / block in face or make narrow face and open up non-lean/ control side farther.

Kerf close will come quicker, the deeper kerf goes in. But at same time, a 1" deep kerf sill close earlier in .325, than in 3/8" etc.; will close earliest in handsaw/ pole saw kerf; ie. earlier in narrower and or deeper kerfs. At close would want CG committed. A harder wood will give more corrective response, more leveraged weight will input more force to get responding push out of etc.

An earlier close gives earlier push, for duration over more of hinging time. But earlier close doesn't allow as much speed of falling to build to slap face harder and throw away from sidelean harder. Earlier close may cause too early a tear off of hinge etc. Have to build experience to evaluate each individual case.



This all works as a response to tree forces and their directions. More leveraged force in, more out. So, a tree could be too light, or not enough side lean to give healthy slap/ push at close to work etc. If side or forward lean isn't enough, might not get firm close; then especially i keep some hinge behind close on that side; but if lots of side or forward lean, will close and make firm pivot on own.



Many lessons l-earned climbing and cutting branches while waiting for ground crew to catch up. Place sling higher than you can reach on vertical 2-4" branch. Make face with chain or hand saw, pull forward at different angles as making backcut at different angles to feel differences. grab sling as a higher leverage of pull to test first, cut some, then use lower hand pull of less leverage to still experience. Kerf one side of face to close early; pull stragiht on while back cutting, pull to side into kerf etc. If force is loaded and ready to breathe/ move in hinge/face; system is empowered; responses will be binary; either push or pulls from the force given.

i all ways picture shape of tree and stump as just illusion/ shadowy framework that is just for 3 points of determinant power to exist in. A) The load as Center of Gravity of tree,B) the hold as tensioned holding fiber to opposite side in hinge; B) and the compressed part of hinge as pivot (inheriting both pulls of load and tensioned fiber like a pulley between 2 pulls). Total leverage of A will = Total Leverage of B; or else the difference/ imbalance will be made up in motion (and some friction etc.). Only these 3 points exist to direct the framework of tree; all that matters is the 3 powerpoints and the leveraged distance and angle between them. Unless shape breaks or bends, it will just ride where these 3 points tell it to. Tapered hinge places more pulling fiber at tensioned support location, extends that location farther from pivot of compressed part of hinge, and also gives better angle of control to this area too. Dutch close on lean side, can increase distance and angle from support/tension fiber/ tapered hinge and also, reduce the leveraged distance and angle from load/ CG. Only CG is constant; we can adjust pivot and support.



Orrrrrrrrrrr something like that...:bang:
 
geofore

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saving a burl

At some time you may want to save a burl and need to fall a lightning struck tree with a burl, uphill away from the lean, to get the burl. What cut are you going to use to walk the tree off the stump, up the hill away from the lean?
 
geofore

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burls/duchman

Burls are worth saving for the wood turners, they love to make things like bowls out of them. The pictures show the burl and the cuts to the stump to move the tree. The tree had been hit on more than one occasion, lost a large limb some years before and was not safe to climb. The last picture shows some of the effects of a lightning strike on a tree. The limb may look good from the top side but the split left by the strike leaves it unsafe to stand on. The trees are usually full of such limbs. The burl was a beauty and well worth giving the Dolmar 7900 a workout. The duchman had to be done upside down to walk the tree off in the right direction. Many thanks to Dan Henry for moddifying the 7900 for me. He builds a nice saw.
 
ShoerFast

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Canyon Angler said:
Can someone clue me in on the title of this "Dent book" referred to in some of the posts above? This is interesting stuff, I'd like to read more.

Thanks,

Jeff
Just click here

http://store.baileys-online.com/cgi-bin/baileys/92?mv_session_id=MjUa95pI&product_sku=17309

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