Filing Chain Free Hand First Time - Results

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Hi guys,

I have been trying with different filing jigs and the long and short is, I have yet to have decent results. They seem to take a lot of hook out and never get the gullet.
Finally gave up and filed a chain all freehand, i’m super pleased with the results but there seems to be so much to learn and get right but I understand the basic principles.

Anyway, it cut like nothing I have ever experienced before it was awesome, it’s a small 1/4” stihl chain and it was attacking wood like an angry beaver. It’s the first time I have been able to lower the rear of the saw and it pull itself into the wood.

I did cut into the links a litte, but I couldn’t get the hook otherwise, I guess I’m on the verge on needing to go a smaller file on some teeth and standard on others?

I took a close up of a couple teeth, what I’m not sure is how much hook to have. I get I need 1/4 of the file above the tooth, so I presume this is close? Should I take more out the bottom of the “C”?

I watched a few billy ray videos and basically replicated his tooth shape as best as a novice can..

another question, it’s 32c (93f)here at the moment and I can’t get the saw lean enough on the H to get it to its 11,500rpm, it’s running rich and then when I close it up too much on H it obviously just does. Could heat be a factor? I left it at 1/4 out on H and it would kind of clean up in the cut, but really it needed to be leaner.

I recall last summer I had the same issue with my ms 260. It had to be set at 1/8-1/4 turn out on H to get to ideal rpm. Could the heat be a factor here? (93f)

Any idea what could be the cause?

 

[farmer steve]

Chips look good Tom. Chain does look like it has some miles on it but not bad. If you have a new chain lay your file in a cutter and compare the angle to your old chain. The witness mark on the top of the cutter is your friend.I'd stick with the recommended file size. Did you do anything to the rakers?

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Chips look good Tom. Chain does look like it has some miles on it but not bad. If you have a new chain lay your file in a cutter and compare the angle to your old chain. The witness mark on the top of the cutter is your friend.I'd stick with the recommended file size. Did you do anything to the rakers?

Thanks mate, there isn’t any marks on this stihl chain, I guess it’s because it’s too old? Yes I hit the takers with a progressive guide and then shaped them round

 

[Jay Hansen]

Yowza! That sounds way too lean on your high speed jet! I suspect that your low speed jet may be set roo rich. Try adjusting the low speed until it's just rich enough that the engine doesn't bog when you hit the throttle. Then adjust the high speed by ear; starting from one turn, lean it until there is no four stroking at WOT, then richen it until you hear just a hint of four stroking. If at this setting your high speed jet is in farther than 5/8 of a turn, something is amiss and more investigation is indicated.

 

[buzz sawyer]

Cutters look fine and depth gauges are shaped nicely. I wouldn't change a thing. Did you rebuild the carb on this? Maybe needle arm is too high? Idle speed adjustment shouldn't affect the H setting that much.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

So the L is 3/4 out and H is 1/4 out. New carby kit (Chinese gaskets and diaphragms and needle) in original walbro wa carby.
Metering lever is set correctly, in line with the plate and I have tested that the needle holds under pressure.

I recon I need to get it in wood for more than just a few quick cuts to clear the crank case out, but that’s two saws now that need very little on the H on hot summer days here in OZ.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Yowza! That sounds way too lean on your high speed jet! I suspect that your low speed jet may be set roo rich. Try adjusting the low speed until it's just rich enough that the engine doesn't bog when you hit the throttle. Then adjust the high speed by ear; starting from one turn, lean it until there is no four stroking at WOT, then richen it until you hear just a hint of four stroking. If at this setting your high speed jet is in farther than 5/8 of a turn, something is amiss and more investigation is indicated.

L = 7/8 and H. = 1/4

Nice crisp off idle acceleration and smooth return to idle.

The actual tuning side of things I’m fine with, just strange it’s not reaching max rpm, running rich to about 1/8 out on H (then bogs). i only did a couple of quick cuts today, so I’ll try properly tomorrow (not in the back garden!) and report back. If I have any issues I’ll return to the previous carb kit.

tomorrow is 26c - much cooler so I’ll see, just wasn’t sure if anyone has experienced this before, normally the issue is too many turns out on the screws ha.

ironically my other carb for my other 020 is set 2 turns out on the low... go figure!

 

[pioneerguy600]

Coming from a free hand filer of some 69 years now filing chains for all cc`s of chainsaws one bit of info for you and others. It is more important to file the chain for the type/hardness and stringy qualities than getting a classic looking cutter profile. Only experience can teach you what works best for the wood you are cutting. Once you have cut many species from all over your region you will gain knowledge of what works better/best for the wood you are cutting at the time. All that said one needs to start somewhere and you are already in the decent category, cutter looks good and the depth gauge progressively lowered and shaped. I wouldn`t expect less from a guy that already has perfect eye to hand control, you control the shape of the cutter, not the file.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Thanks for the kind words and great advice J. It’s much appreciated! I’m not sure I’ll ever get anywhere near enough time under my belt to be able to customise the teeth to the wood, but maybe one day when I have a larger property and a heap of trees! We can all dream.

Exactly right regarding having to start somewhere / with a profile. I can’t wait to try it out again and figure out this carby. Will video it all.

 

[farmguywithasaw]

I wounded if your tuning problem is related to the metering lever spring. On such a hot day you would have a fair bit of pressure in the fuel tank. What pressure did you test the needle at? I usually do 10 psi sometimes 7 if it’s an older style carb. Dose it run any richer at say 1 turn out? Are you close to sea level or up on a mountain. Less air at altitude means you need less fuel

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I wounded if your tuning problem is related to the metering lever spring. On such a hot day you would have a fair bit of pressure in the fuel tank. What pressure did you test the needle at? I usually do 10 psi sometimes 7 if it’s an older style carb. Dose it run any richer at say 1 turn out? Are you close to sea level or up on a mountain. Less air at altitude means you need less fuel

Hey mate, thanks for the suggestions, I’m at sea level, pop off pressure is 18 psi and lever is set flush with the plate that covers part of the carb. No humidity in the air and it’s very hot. Did 3 small cuts so not enough to properly test it, but I’d have expected to have been able to get close enough of a tune. Going tomorrow to the track where I can test it properly and get it in some long cuts and nice and hot. I hope to return with good news re the tune. Max temp tomorrow is nearly 10c less than today.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Thanks for the kind words and great advice J. It’s much appreciated! I’m not sure I’ll ever get anywhere near enough time under my belt to be able to customise the teeth to the wood, but maybe one day when I have a larger property and a heap of trees! We can all dream.

Exactly right regarding having to start somewhere / with a profile. I can’t wait to try it out again and figure out this carby. Will video it all.

A sharp chain will cut any wood species so that is the place to start. Having a chain self feed in soft or hard wood without grabbing is where some of the changes in shape and angle come into play, A cleaned out gullet for better chip ejection is more important in softwood species than hardwood, for me. Since I cut in temps from -20F to + 80F a chain can be tailored to cut more efficiently for temp changes also. Then there is the trade off between high cutting speed and how long the chain will cut before it dulls from just cutting wood fiber, metal in trees, rocks and hitting the ground will dull or break any chain no matter how its filed. Generally the thinner the edge of the cutter,it will cut faster but dull quicker, thus the amount of the file above the cutter can change the edge of the cutters top plate, the side angle changes the edge of the side plate, steep angle gives a thinner cutting edge, less angle the edge is a bit blunter but will last longer. Chain geometry, what a fascinating subject.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

A sharp chain will cut any wood species so that is the place to start. Having a chain self feed in soft or hard wood without grabbing is where some of the changes in shape and angle come into play, A cleaned out gullet for better chip ejection is more important in softwood species than hardwood, for me. Since I cut in temps from -20F to + 80F a chain can be tailored to cut more efficiently for temp changes also. Then there is the trade off between high cutting speed and how long the chain will cut before it dulls from just cutting wood fiber, metal in trees, rocks and hitting the ground will dull or break any chain no matter how its filed. Generally the thinner the edge of the cutter,it will cut faster but dull quicker, thus the amount of the file above the cutter can change the edge of the cutters top plate, the side angle changes the edge of the side plate, steep angle gives a thinner cutting edge, less angle the edge is a bit blunter but will last longer. Chain geometry, what a fascinating subject.

Thank J for sharing all that info, next time you pass a loop of hand sharpened chain, can you snap a picture of how you have a typical close up picture of a medium / hardwood tooth profile, hook, gullet etc? For now I’m happy with it just cutting efficiently and self feeding. That’s perfect for me hah! Feeling the chain draw itself into the wood when lowering the saw back and down was something super satisfying.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Guys, is it ideal to remove these little high spots for chip clearance? Should it be, for ideal world scenarios, flat in there?

Also, I am cutting into the links just a touch to be able to get under the tooth on this kinda worn chain, is that to be expected to a certain degree?

 

[farmguywithasaw]

Guys, is it ideal to remove these little high spots for chip clearance? Should it be, for ideal world scenarios, flat in there?

Also, I am cutting into the links just a touch to be able to get under the tooth on this kinda worn chain, is that to be expected to a certain degree?
View attachment 873440

Should be fine on both accounts I have sharpens into the tie strap a bit should be ok but a file next size down might work for you

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Spent more of today practising sharpening. This time it’s a .325 chain on my ms 260.
I welcome any constructive criticism.

taking this saw with me to tests it tomorrow too! I guess ultimately I’ll know if it’s too grabby, pulling one side etc etc

 

[buzz sawyer]

Are you taking orders?

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Are you taking orders?

I take that as a massive compliment! I’m just not sure anyone should trust me with a file anywhere near there chain any time soon, your saws might end up cutting as curved as a penny farthing!

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Is there anyone who’s soul job is professionally hand filing chains? I want to delve deeper into the subject...

 

[Mad Professor]

Hi Tom. Looks like you are well on your way.

Welcome to the world of hand sharpening. I got started in the 1970s, on a Homelite super XL (I was selling cordwood, full cord hardwood $35-40, delivered. I couldn't afford to have chains sent out.). I sort of taught myself. Back then I used Carlton chain.

Some tips:

Tension your chain and mount the bar in a bench vise if you have one. In the woods, I'll cut a groove in a stump or big round to hold the bar.

Being poor I made my own file handles. A green piece of 1.5"/3 cm thick hardwood branch works good. Cut into ~5-6"/ 12-15 cm lengths. The file tang goes nicely into the pith, if you tap it in, and as the wood dries it tightens on the tang. You can get fancy, and whittle or use a draw knife to remove the bark/smooth it first. In the woods you can make one up in a minute.

As you are learning, take a sharpie and mark the inside of the cutter (like machinist bluing). Then you can see what you remove with each stroke. This is just for learning. Soon you will know from the feel filing, if a cutter is sharp.

Chain will last longer filing than grinding. File just enough strokes to get the cutter sharp (by feel). If cutter lengths are uneven, I'll give the longer ones an extra stroke or two, even if sharp. Making the cutters all exactly even is just wasting chain life. Things will even out doing the above. Only times I'm a little picky on this is milling chains.

Try to mimic the factory angles/witness mark on the cutters. You can play with this as you get better at filing and learn what the wood needs to cut well (as @pioneerguy600 said). Keep an eye on your hook and gullet. Hard and softwood will react different to those.

You are doing a good job on the rakers. Adjust the height according to the saw/bar/chain, and the wood you are feeding it. You have a nice profile on the leading edge of your rakers. If you've sharpened, be careful with the file on the rakers so you don't nick the cutters. If rakers badly need attention, I do those before I sharpen, then check again after sharpening.

GLOVES!!! Even dull cutters will slice a knuckle...........LOL

One more thing. You can keep a chain cutting well until the cutters are used up. For me that is when one breaks off. Then I'll sharpen one more time and save the chain for stumping, or cutting trees that might have metal inside (fence row trees).