Filing Chain Free Hand First Time - Results

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Hi Tom. Looks like you are well on your way.

Welcome to the world of hand sharpening. I got started in the 1970s, on a Homelite super XL (I was selling cordwood, full cord hardwood $35-40, delivered. I couldn't afford to have chains sent out.). I sort of taught myself. Back then I used Carlton chain.

Some tips:

Tension your chain and mount the bar in a bench vise if you have one. In the woods, I'll cut a groove in a stump or big round to hold the bar.

Being poor I made my own file handles. A green piece of 1.5"/3 cm thick hardwood branch works good. Cut into ~5-6"/ 12-15 cm lengths. The file tang goes nicely into the pith, if you tap it in, and as the wood dries it tightens on the tang. You can get fancy, and whittle or use a draw knife to remove the bark/smooth it first. In the woods you can make one up in a minute.

As you are learning, take a sharpie and mark the inside of the cutter (like machinist bluing). Then you can see what you remove with each stroke. This is just for learning. Soon you will know from the feel filing, if a cutter is sharp.

Chain will last longer filing than grinding. File just enough strokes to get the cutter sharp (by feel). If cutter lengths are uneven, I'll give the longer ones an extra stroke or two, even if sharp. Making the cutters all exactly even is just wasting chain life. Things will even out doing the above. Only times I'm a little picky on this is milling chains.

Try to mimic the factory angles/witness mark on the cutters. You can play with this as you get better at filing and learn what the wood needs to cut well (as @pioneerguy600 said). Keep an eye on your hook and gullet. Hard and softwood will react different to those.

You are doing a good job on the rakers. Adjust the height according to the saw/bar/chain, and the wood you are feeding it. You have a nice profile on the leading edge of your rakers. If you've sharpened, be careful with the file on the rakers so you don't nick the cutters. If rakers badly need attention, I do those before I sharpen, then check again after sharpening.

GLOVES!!! Even dull cutters will slice a knuckle...........LOL

One more thing. You can keep a chain cutting well until the cutters are used up. For me that is when one breaks off. Then I'll sharpen one more time and save the chain for stumping, or cutting trees that might have metal inside (fence row trees).

awesome awesome awesome, thanks. Many of those things I do, but some I haven’t tried.

I have found that after filing, I do the rakers and the progressive raker gauge seems to put a slight dull spot on the tooth just where it presses against it. Any advice here? Would you say I have too much hook for medium / hard woods?

 

[Mad Professor]

awesome awesome awesome, thanks. Many of those things I do, but some I haven’t tried.

I have found that after filing, I do the rakers and the progressive raker gauge seems to put a slight dull spot on the tooth just where it presses against it. Any advice here? Would you say I have too much hook for medium / hard woods?

You can do the rakers first. If you keep up on those you only have to hit them every 3-4 sharpenings.

I've never cut your hardwoods. Lots of hook will both cut and dull faster. If you go overboard the leading edge of the cutter will bend up and dull. You will get a feel for it by putting the saw into wood and getting a good cut but not dulling quick (as long as you don't turf the chain or dirty wood). Have a look at your cutters after you cut with a sharp chain a bit, and how is it still throwing chips.

Semi-chisel is more forgiving than chisel. If you nick the corner on chisel you know it.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

You can do the rakers first. If you keep up on those you only have to hit them every 3-4 sharpenings.

I've never cut your hardwoods. Lots of hook will both cut and dull faster. If you go overboard the leading edge of the cutter will bend up and dull. You will get a feel for it by putting the saw into wood and getting a good cut but not dulling quick (as long as you don't turf the chain or dirty wood). Have a look at your cutters after you cut with a sharp chain a bit, and how is it still throwing chips.

Semi-chisel is more forgiving than chisel. If you nick the corner on chisel you know it.

Perfect thank you I’m tempted to buy a third .325 chain for my 260 (have 2 already) and take each chain to a different degree of hook and test side by side.

I won’t be cutting the hard stuff here any time soon, I’ll be cutting green cherry and apple woods for spoon carving. I guess it’s still hard, but when green it’s easy to cut.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Ok guys here is the update after cutting.

damn it cut smooth. No grabbing or bogging. It was self feeding nicely and It loaded the saw nicely without any encouragement from me. It was really cool I could pull the saw back off the dogs and it wanted to draw me forward consistently during the cut too. Just all round very pleasant. I could gently push on the saw and it just dug in and loved it.

I may try going a touch more aggressive on the hook and test again shortly. All in all, for a first time free hand filing, it went very well!

Cut straight as a laser too, excuse the horrendously grainy photo, my girlfriends video quality sucks and it’s a screenshot from it, but the cookie I cut was literally a few millimetres wide

 

[Okie]

I suspect (know) you need to be concerned about you saw's carb purposely being adjusted to what appears to be lean so as to try to reach max rated rpm's on a tach.
A chainsaw running lean in a long (long is approx 30 sec;s or longer) full bar cut with the engine loaded up and running lean will shorten or ruin the engine really fast on a chainsaw. (due to overheating of the block/piston)
Generally you will not ever notice such on smaller in/out cuts. (because the engine's block/piston did not have time to overheat running lean)
I would forget about the tach and adjust the carb by ear for a 4 stroke.
I do not hear any hint of 4 stroke in your video either.

You are doing good at hand filing.
For my raker file I take the flat bastard file to a bench grinder and grind the EDGES of the file smooth so a if the file's edge touches the cutters it won't dull them. This file with no cutting edge allows you to file the rakers and dress them W/O relying on a raker gauge to protect the cutters.

experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer

 

[Bwildered]

If it's cutting straight & self feeding , that's it, don't **** around with it any more, once a chain is grabby you can't reverse what you have done

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I suspect (know) you need to be concerned about you saw's carb purposely being adjusted to what appears to be lean so as to try to reach max rated rpm's on a tach.
A chainsaw running lean in a long (long is approx 30 sec;s or longer) full bar cut with the engine loaded up and running lean will shorten or ruin the engine really fast on a chainsaw. (due to overheating of the block/piston)
Generally you will not ever notice such on smaller in/out cuts. (because the engine's block/piston did not have time to overheat running lean)
I would forget about the tach and adjust the carb by ear for a 4 stroke.
I do not hear any hint of 4 stroke in your video either.

You are doing good at hand filing.
For my raker file I take the flat bastard file to a bench grinder and grind the EDGES of the file smooth so a if the file's edge touches the cutters it won't dull them. This file with no cutting edge allows you to file the rakers and dress them W/O relying on a raker gauge to protect the cutters.

experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer

Hey mate thanks for the message! Yes there is something wrong with the 020, I’m going to have to strip the carb apart again and see what’s going on. I have no concerns with it running lean at all, Its getting way too much fuel - it seems to almost be unmetered by the H screw and it’s position, bypassing it all together. I feel like it is missing a welch plug or something.

As for the the 260 and the tune, it’s spot on here nothing wrong at all. It’s always been harder to hear this stihl ms260 4 stroking, but it is.

 

[farmguywithasaw]

Hey mate thanks for the message! Yes there is something wrong with the 020, I’m going to have to strip the carb apart again and see what’s going on. I have no concerns with it running lean at all, Its getting way too much fuel - it seems to almost be unmetered by the H screw and it’s position, bypassing it all together. I feel like it is missing a welch plug or something.

As for the the 260 and the tune, it’s spot on here nothing wrong at all. It’s always been harder to hear this stihl ms260 4 stroking, but it is.

Yes the mufflers are fairly choked up on the smaller stihls. My 290 is like that hard to hear the 4 strokes but it is there. Dose your girlfriend roll her eyes and sigh when you ask her to hold the camera for a chainsaw video..... mine sure dose lol. Anyway that 020 has a walbro hdc I assume. There are two different metering plate gaskets. I’m thinking that either you have the wrong one orrr it’s not sealing. The kit comes with two they are slightly different. If your plate has two hole you need the gasket that doesn’t have a pathway between them. If it has one hole it will need the one that dose. As for the chain seems like it coming along. What are you setting your rakers to? I set mine for 0.030” but but but I live where it is mostly soft wood such as pine and spruce. The hardest I would cut with that is birch. 0.025” is best I’m thinking for you. The hook you want it to cut nice but too aggressive it will dull quicker and make the chain more grabby. This can increase the chance of kickback and like what happened to me the other day it can throw small pieces of firewood into you shin lol

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Yes the mufflers are fairly choked up on the smaller stihls. My 290 is like that hard to hear the 4 strokes but it is there. Dose your girlfriend roll her eyes and sigh when you ask her to hold the camera for a chainsaw video..... mine sure dose lol. Anyway that 020 has a walbro hdc I assume. There are two different metering plate gaskets. I’m thinking that either you have the wrong one orrr it’s not sealing. The kit comes with two they are slightly different. If your plate has two hole you need the gasket that doesn’t have a pathway between them. If it has one hole it will need the one that dose. As for the chain seems like it coming along. What are you setting your rakers to? I set mine for 0.030” but but but I live where it is mostly soft wood such as pine and spruce. The hardest I would cut with that is birch. 0.025” is best I’m thinking for you. The hook you want it to cut nice but too aggressive it will dull quicker and make the chain more grabby. This can increase the chance of kickback and like what happened to me the other day it can throw small pieces of firewood into you shin lol

Thanks mate! It’s got a muffler mod, but it’s still not clear, I have to lean my head around to the front of the saw to hear it 4 stroking haha

Ok this carb.

it’s an wa1

seems Brad Snelling had the same issue.



now the gasket originally had 2 holes, I replaced it with the only one that came on the kit, that had one hole (just for the H speed side).

I didn’t think anything of it because the other hole on the left doesn’t actually go anywhere, it’s literally just a hole to the carb floor, no passage.

Now here is another post I found from someone else, seems these darn 020 carbs are a PITA..



I’m not sure if he is referring to the second open drilling under the H side of the plate or if his issues were differently entirely.

Edit to update:

Here is a pic from brad, mine looks the same.

the hole in the original gasket opens up to the green arrow. It’s nothing, just the floor of the carb, no channel, so I don’t think not having the hole there is my issue.

The red arrow points to 1 of the 2 holes for the H side. I think the red arrow is pointing to one that needs to be sealed. It’s just open and unrestricted directly to the Venturi, fuel isn’t required to pass through the other hole and past the needle otherwise. Yet the carb doesn’t come with one installed. Confused and scratching my head..

 

[farmguywithasaw]

Thanks mate! It’s got a muffler mod, but it’s still not clear, I have to lean my head around to the front of the saw to hear it 4 stroking haha

Ok this carb.

it’s an wa1

seems Brad Snelling had the same issue.

View attachment 873713

now the gasket originally had 2 holes, I replaced it with the only one that came on the kit, that had one hole (just for the H speed side).

I didn’t think anything of it because the other hole on the left doesn’t actually go anywhere, it’s literally just a hole to the carb floor, no passage.

Now here is another post I found from someone else, seems these darn 020 carbs are a PITA..

View attachment 873717

I’m not sure if he is referring to the second open drilling under the H side of the plate or if his issues were differently entirely.

Edit to update:

Here is a pic from brad, mine looks the same.

the hole in the original gasket opens up to the green arrow. It’s nothing, just the floor of the carb, no channel, so I don’t think not having the hole there is my issue.

The red arrow points to 1 of the 2 holes for the H side. I think the red arrow is pointing to one that needs to be sealed. It’s just open and unrestricted directly to the Venturi, fuel isn’t required to pass through the other hole and past the needle otherwise. Yet the carb doesn’t come with one installed. Confused and scratching my head..
View attachment 873720

Yeah I’m not familiar with that carb the one on my 015 is different I believe mine is an hdc

 

[pioneerguy600]

Yeah I’m not familiar with that carb the one on my 015 is different I believe mine is an hdc

Yes the 015 uses an HDC, they have problematic check valve but can be fixed, just did two this past week and another on its way here. A nice 020AV had come in a few weeks back but it runs fine after some new fuel mix, did not need to pull the carb down.

 

[Yukon Stihl]

Just curious...
Why are you cutting on a tarp?

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

LIGHT BULB MOMENT


I think I know what’s going wrong with the 020 and why - It’s getting unmetered fuel through the H circuit.


You know what I think should be happening.

The negative pressure in the venturi draws the one way diaphragm valve (not pictured) that sits above the gasket down (not pictured).

This lets fuel from the metering chamber into the H speed chamber. As the diaphragm valve is opened it should then seal the hole with the red arrow.




This means the fuel can only be drawn down through the other high circuit hole (above the red arrow) past the H screw to meter the fuel.

I bet that flapper isn’t sealing closed the second H drilling (red arrow) direct to the venturi because the quality of the diaphragm material (am) isn’t correct / it’s too thick / not flexible enough or less likly but still possible, the gasket material is too thick restricting the diaphragms ability travel and seal. So many people have had problems with this carb and we are all using AM kits as they are NLA OEM. I BET that’s the problem. Amazing how the mind works at 2.30am in bed!

I bet it needs that second H hole to transfer enough negative vacuum from the Venturi to actuate the diaphragm.

I’m going to put the OEM worn diaphragm back in and report back, I BET that’s what’s going on.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Edit to update!!

My above hypothesis was spot on!

I swapped out the new AM diaphragm that goes under the metal plate in the metering side with my old worn out one and put the saw back together.

Ran perfectly, just a touch under 1&1 on the screws and I’m 2400 idle and 11500 WOT.

Turns out the AM diaphragm is thicker. The negative pressure isn’t enough to fully draw the diaphragm tab down to seal the H hole and I was getting unmetered fuel that wasn’t passing the H screw.

The OEM diaphragm is 0.16mm and the AM is 0.24mm. So easy to miss and this is, I’m sure, why so many are having issues with their walbro WA carbs.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Just curious...
Why are you cutting on a tarp?

I told the council I’d do so to clear up my wood chips

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

I have decided to just experiment with this stihl chain. It’s 3/8. Changing angles of the file to see how to control what I want to happen. I do wonder if, in this case, I went a little too low to get the gullet out ending up taking out too much strap unnecessarily?.
Anyway, I took a heap of gullet out and purposely made a big aggressive hook to the practise taking the hook back out.
I fear I have probably lost everyone’s interest now, but I’ll keep sharing things because my partner won’t show any interest and I have to get my thoughts down somewhere as a release haha.

Lots of hook

Then removed it



I was also told to keep the top plate angle square and not rounded. I found, with a file and no jig it’s easier, with the jig in the way it’s hard to see what’s going on underneath.



I think I’m going to leave the saw set up like this so I can just come back to it randomly and file a few teeth.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Looking better,Tom. I see you are manipulating the file to shape the cutter now and not depending on the size of the file to set the profile. When I taught aspiring free hand filers that was the most difficult bit to get across to them as they had been so used to using filing jigs to do the best they could come up with sharpened chains. The ground chains one could get done here absolutely sucked, just one small step up from a dulled chain. I have said this before but it will make a big difference in how a chain cuts and behaves, use the files to make the cutter shape you desire, free hand filing gives one so many options. One needs good light and sharp eye to see the file remove material where required, just stroking away aimlessly won`t cut it.

 

[Okie]

Just little bit of Walbro HDC info.
Another light bulb moment: for me about your HDC carb.
The wrong HDC re-build kit can be installed into those very easily and if someone has already done such it's not readily apparent to the new guy.

Walbro HDC carbs:
The Walbro site has some good info about them HDC carbs. Service manual with IPL and theory of how they operate for the Idle and High speed circuit.
The HDC was also used on some Homelite saws, the EZ for example.
I've had to replace the check valve in those. You can find replacement check valves on-line and I've seen threads on this site about testing/replacing and even making the check valve. (some HDC have different size/style of check valve also) some of the check valve kits are also overpriced. think I found some of the kits at around $7-$9 probably on flea bay.
Really have to be careful and keep a heads up because some of the kits for the HDC are not plug and play, for example the little button on the diaphragm for the meter lever is not correct. Leons site plus some others. also has some good info about working on the HDC.
I keep a know good HDC spare carb around to install on a problematic saw (especially my Homies) so as to help rule out a erratic carb. The HDC carb will act squirrely (adjust erratic and strange) and lead one install a new kit if the chainsaw has a crankcase air leak.

 

[Vintage Engine Repairs]

Looking better,Tom. I see you are manipulating the file to shape the cutter now and not depending on the size of the file to set the profile. When I taught aspiring free hand filers that was the most difficult bit to get across to them as they had been so used to using filing jigs to do the best they could come up with sharpened chains. The ground chains one could get done here absolutely sucked, just one small step up from a dulled chain. I have said this before but it will make a big difference in how a chain cuts and behaves, use the files to make the cutter shape you desire, free hand filing gives one so many options. One needs good light and sharp eye to see the file remove material where required, just stroking away aimlessly won`t cut it.

Thanks Jerry mate, yes that’s exactly what I’m learning to do. I’m also working on getting my eye trained to gauge the shape / hook by looking down on the top plate and seeing how far over the file it goes. I’m pretty close with each tooth and when I scoot around to the side to inspect the hook / gullet, sometimes I’ll go back and just tweak it a little and other times my estimation of the above was good enough that I didn’t need to go back.

I have also found by purposely dulling teeth with a file that you can go at the tooth and gulled aggressively and so long as the last few passes are nice and level, the earlier ones being so don’t matter that much.

Buckin’ Billy Ray teaching that boat / rocking motion which has been great. Though it didn’t take long to realise that removing a little too much gullet means you’ll be wasting usable tooth / top plate by having to bring that back too.

I have probably spent a few hours over the course of the day today going back to the chain and filing a few teeth, chipping and dulling them and fixing them putting a lot of hook in and removing it and taking all the hook out and putting the gullet and hook back in. I have been through a file already (though it wasn’t new when I first started this chain). Damn though, new files are so nice hahah.

tomorrow I must get on with orders, but no doubt I’ll have a little more filing time too.

I expect to basically wear this whole chain out just filing and learning, but I’m happy with that.

 

[pioneerguy600]

Concerning your questions on the amount of hook , I have seen them but thought it was best to let you file for a bit, experiment a little.Since you don`t cut a lot of hours per day and not likely to cut various species of tree/wood then you will not gain much experience of what works best in each situation. Some softer wood species can stand more hook than harder /denser wood also depending on seasonal changes here. Until you try your various hook styles on different chainsaws in various wood densities it will not become naturally evident to you what works best. Even a saw`s power comes into play, a powerful saw can utilize more hook, it may be a bit grabby but the engine can haul it while a less powerful saw will stall or the clutch will slip. If the chain causes the RPM to drop enough the centrifugal force causing the weights of the clutch to push tightly to the drum , will lessen and the clutch slips. Smaller cc saws in general likes less hook, just enough to allow the chain to self feed.