Frozen Standing Dead Ash

[Gkiesel]

Hello all. I want to take down a dead ash tree this weekend. It's about 18-20 DBH and it's been dead about a year now on the edge of the stream. Temps this Sunday will be in the mid 20's, and I am wondering ifnthere is anything to be concerned about being the tree is dead and frozen. I'll be notching, boring and pulling it over with a rope puller. Any danger of the hinge snapping due to the cold? Any other concerns? Thanks

 

[zogger]

Same as any other tree. If there is rotten wood in the middle, be double triple extra cautious and watch for unexpected movement. And also brittle branches either falling or bouncing once it hits the ground.

I chain up questionable trees, up above my face and back cuts.

 

[svk]

Will this tree need to be pulled over against the lean or are you just using the rope puller to help guide it where you want to go?

As zogger said I'd be more worried about the core being punky causing a smaller amount of hinge wood than I would be due to the fact that it's frozen.

 

[chucker]

frozen trees are always "unpredictable at best" , always use care on both ends !! chain the hinge end and guide the top end! it's a sure bet if all goes south to add a chain(ratchet strap) at eye height to assure against a split or barber chair accident! frost cracks are a good indication of tree condition!

 

[johnnyballs]

Hello all. I want to take down a dead ash tree this weekend. It's about 18-20 DBH and it's been dead about a year now on the edge of the stream. Temps this Sunday will be in the mid 20's, and I am wondering ifnthere is anything to be concerned about being the tree is dead and frozen. I'll be notching, boring and pulling it over with a rope puller. Any danger of the hinge snapping due to the cold? Any other concerns? Thanks

like chucker said, the ratchet strap is a good idea...i would also make a shallow face notch and do more back-cutting since you have the rope puller...cut-pull...cut-pull, etc....dead trees are difficult to steer...good luck and let us know how it turns out...then get to splitting...cheers

 

[square1]

In my 7th winter of cutting 12~13 cord of nothing but dead ash so figure somewhere between 600-800 trees felled. In that time I've roped 2 trees, a hard leaner toward primary power lines and a hard leaner over a fence/neighbors property, both 16~18" by 50~70'. I also paid a pro to climb and drop one tree piece by piece.

How you intend to use the rope / ratchet strap would be my biggest concern.

Pictures of the tree would be helpful.

 

[LoveStihlQuality]

As always, make sure you get have clear escape paths.

Sent from my SM-N900P using Tapatalk

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

Keep your eyes and ears open, and your wits about you.

I cut a standing, not-quite-dead ash a couple of weekends ago, and even though I bore cut it, it started to chair (I left too thick of a hinge). I saw and heard it start, and was able to get a wedge in, to help stabilize things just a bit, to give me time to escape without hurting myself or damaging my saw. Ideally, it would have been preventable, had I done a better job, but situational awareness was key to making a bad situation a little less bad.

 

[Gkiesel]

Thanks for the replies. Sounds like good advice. I'll strap it up at eye level just to be sure. Using the puller to steer it a bit. Slight back lean, not much. Maybe I'll notch, bore, and wedge it, before releasing it and pulling.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Keep your eyes and ears open, and your wits about you.

I cut a standing, not-quite-dead ash a couple of weekends ago, and even though I bore cut it, it started to chair (I left too thick of a hinge). I saw and heard it start, and was able to get a wedge in, to help stabilize things just a bit, to give me time to escape without hurting myself or damaging my saw. Ideally, it would have been preventable, had I done a better job, but situational awareness was key to making a bad situation a little less bad.

Was wondering if you could get a picture of the stump and butt end of the tree so we can see why the tree wanted to chair? Most chairing is caused by unintentional dutchman, heavy lean and/or too slow of a saw. Wind can also play a large factor.

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

Was wondering if you could get a picture of the stump and butt end of the tree so we can see why the tree wanted to chair? Most chairing is caused by unintentional dutchman, heavy lean and/or too slow of a saw. Wind can also play a large factor.

Unfortunately, I burned the butt already, but may be able to get a stump pic this weekend.

The tree did have a lean (15 degrees maybe), so I cut a fairly shallow notch, but I didn't line up my bore cut properly, leaving too much holding wood on one side. I stopped and took a good long hard look at everything before the tree fell, and I definitely am to blame for what happened.

 

[Gypo Logger]

Unfortunately, I burned the butt already, but may be able to get a stump pic this weekend.

The tree did have a lean (15 degrees maybe), so I cut a fairly shallow notch, but I didn't line up my bore cut properly, leaving too much holding wood on one side. I stopped and took a good long hard look at everything before the tree fell, and I definitely am to blame for what happened.

Sometimes it's hard to determine how much holding wood is left on all but the most perpendicular trees which usually require some wedging over, however, with trees with a lean that are more susceptible to chairing, I use different methods. As soon as the tree starts to lift, I saw with conviction. Even if I end sawing off most or all of the holding wood, the tree has the ability to roll off anything it may side swipe.
Other methods I've used to reduce chairing are to plunge out the heart centre thru the undercut and/or reduce the dia of the tree by sawing in straight or angular side cuts.
Maybe not textbook methods, but they work for me.
Regardless of what you do, when you saw in the back cut, saw like you mean it, given that the tree is going where it wants to go.
There are so many factors to consider when falling trees, that I wouldn't make the mistake of taking to heart anything I say about falling, as each situation is different.

 

[kingOFgEEEks]

Yeah, I had cut my notch, then bored, leaving a trigger, but the tree was a little too small to get a wedge in. My mistake happened at that point - I should have gone to the other side of the tree one more time, and double checked that my hinge was uniform in thickness, since I wasn't trying to swing anything. I neglected to do that, and left too thick of a hinge on the far side. When I cut my trigger, the tree started to chair a little, so I quickly jammed a wedge in, while I got out of Dodge. I think if I hadn't wedged it, the chair would have opened the rest of the way up, and the tree would have gone down. Instead, I was able to stop, assess from a distance, and go the long way around to see what was going on with the other side of the tree. That's when I saw my error. I was able to stand back to the side of the chair, and reach in with the tip of my bar to cut through the hinge, just like you described, which allowed the tree to fall with gravity. It would have been better to not make the mistake in the first place, but since I was paying attention to what the tree was doing when it started to chair, I was able to get out of the way.

 

[Jere39]

You've received some good advice here. Just an observation, I cut standing dead here in PA all winter, every winter. I am mostly cutting Red Oak, with an occasional White oak and Black Locust. In my observation, there is nothing about 20° F that alters the way a dead tree cuts. I avoid cutting in the heat just because I like to cut in long sleeves. But around here, and down to the low teens, I have never seen any change in hard wood felling behavior under the saw.



Now, once it is down, and blocked, I like the way a frozen round pops under a splitting ax.

 

[Gkiesel]

Thanks. Nice pic. Where in PA are you?
Why is your red oak dying off?

 

[Jere39]

That is at my home in Northern Chester County, where I am losing the Red Oak to what I have been told is Oak Wilt. That makes sense because it seems to be affecting only the Red Oak and Pin Oak, and not the White Oak family including the Whites and Chestnut Oaks.
I also cut at a cabin I own in North West corner of Lycoming County

 

[Woody912]

Hello all. I want to take down a dead ash tree this weekend. It's about 18-20 DBH and it's been dead about a year now on the edge of the stream. Temps this Sunday will be in the mid 20's, and I am wondering ifnthere is anything to be concerned about being the tree is dead and frozen. I'll be notching, boring and pulling it over with a rope puller. Any danger of the hinge snapping due to the cold? Any other concerns? Thanks

Just my $.02 but I think very cold temps affect living trees more due to water content and ash is the lowest moisture wood that I know of. Don't let your pulling replace good cutting fundamentals and watch out for widowmakers

 

[Gkiesel]

So I gave myself a good lesson on cutting standing dead. The temperature really didn't matter. The unseen rot made the most difference. The smaller tree came down with out much drama, but there was a larger ash. About 26"DBH that startled me pretty good. All went well but, I notched it no problem. Good solid wood. Then bored through he middle. As soon as I got done setting up the hinge and started to cut toward the rear, it let go with a big CRACK Pop sound. The back 1/3 of the tree was rotted. It looked fine from the outside but I could tell as I cut toward the rear, the chips turned rust brown, and I knew this was not good. Luckily the hinge was in good wood. But lesson learned. Beware of standing dead with hidden rot. G

 

[svk]

Glad you had everything set up right before you hit the rot. No two trees are ever the same!

 

[Gkiesel]

In retrospect. I would have been better off to just notch it and do a conventional back cut. Live and learn I guess.