frozen wood? # 2

[mwrunt]

Ok here goes not trying to step on any toes but the other frozen wood tread got a little misdirected and the ?'s at hand in my opinion were not fully answered. This is a topic i never even thought about till the last thread was posted. |These ?'s are really relevant to me couse it has been minus 20 for weeks now here with the coldest day this year being -36. I know alot of u experts live in warmer climates but some of you got to be in the ice belt.
I am milling with a alasken with a 99cc head just in case anyone needs the info.
so here's the questions i have
Whats the problem with half frozen wood?
Is frozen wood harder to cut should i sharpen my chain different ie run higher raikers run a skip or just stick with plain old milling chain
What about bar oil? winter allseason synthetic motor oil veg oil or what have you found works best
what about storing wood that's frozen i know i should paint the ends but does it have to be seasoned differently to prevent checking and warping

thanks in advance as i dont know what i am doing and have only had my mill since the end of december so all i have done has been frozen or close to it
and feel free to ad to this guys if you have any ? or concerns

 

[Coalsmoke]

Ok, well here's a couple of questions answered:

Half frozen wood is a problem for bandmills, it will cause the blade to cut untrue depending on species, the wood's moisture content, blade conditions, etc. This is not an issue with an alaskan mill, although you may find that the teeth will leave a rougher finish in some species (ie frozen waterlogged cedar).

Frozen logs and lumber will keep just fine, its the rain and the heat that will get to them.

 

[DRB]

Ok here goes not trying to step on any toes but the other frozen wood tread got a little misdirected and the ?'s at hand in my opinion were not fully answered. This is a topic i never even thought about till the last thread was posted. |These ?'s are really relevant to me couse it has been minus 20 for weeks now here with the coldest day this year being -36. I know alot of u experts live in warmer climates but some of you got to be in the ice belt.
I am milling with a alasken with a 99cc head just in case anyone needs the info.
so here's the questions i have
Whats the problem with half frozen wood?

I had cut some cedar for siding a couple of winters ago for rough cut siding with a Woodmizer LT40. I am putting it up right now. Some of the boards with sap wood on them have a different appearance. The sapwood is smoother than the heart wood. Does not make for a good finish for rough cut siding.

I cut some fir last winter with my 088 CSM and this happened again. I don't care about the appearance difference on this wood as it will be planed.

These logs my have only been partly frozen though. The sap wood has more water in it so it seems harder that it would be if it was not frozen. The heart wood seems to react the same as when not frozen.

Is frozen wood harder to cut should i sharpen my chain different ie run higher raikers run a skip or just stick with plain old milling chain

I have just used my normal ripping chain with no problems Oregon RD. You may have to sharpen more often? But I did not notice much of a difference. It's the dirt of dragging and moving logs that seems to be the biggest problem. Dragging logs in the snow helps keep dirt out of the log. Although snow covered logs can be hard to read for setting up to cut.

What about bar oil? winter allseason synthetic motor oil veg oil or what have you found works best

Stihl light bar oil works to near -20c

what about storing wood that's frozen i know i should paint the ends but does it have to be seasoned differently to prevent checking and warping

If the logs are covered with snow thy should not crack. Dry winter weather with no cover may cause cracks. I always store my logs in a shady area.

thanks in advance as i dont know what i am doing and have only had my mill since the end of december so all i have done has been frozen or close to it
and feel free to ad to this guys if you have any ? or concerns

Hope this helps ask away if you have more questions. I almost always cut in the winter.

 

[mwrunt]

well its funny i get home this morning from the coast and it has warmed up to a balmy -2
so you say keep the wood in the shade. i have been staking my wood in my green house to season. So i guess i should tarp th pile with a airspace around the tarp. or should i cover the green house to leave a bigger airspace.
is there anyone in the 100 mile house area or willys puddle area that would be interested in getting together to do some milling sometimes the best way to learn the tricks of the trade is hands on

 

[mtngun]

I do have a problem with bar oil in cold weather. Regular 30W bar oil doesn't flow well. It can be thinned with kerosene or diesel. I've been experimenting with diesel and it works if I succeed in mixing it thoroughly, but it doesn't mix so easily (works best with a 1/2 empty jug so you can slosh it around in the jug).

 

[gemniii]

Well today I about finished milling most of the tree I had cut down and actually CSM'd. It was definitely frozen since shortly after the fall snowstorm.
I've had my rakers on my Woodland Pro 30RP set at .022, as it is on the box, .025, and now they are about .028. The .028 is the best, or maybe I'm just sharpening the chain better.

Todays cutting was about as easy as the first day I tried with a brand new chain, except for the setup (which now I've gotten much faster at). So it doesn't seem that frozen has made it much "harder".

 

[BobL]

I've had my rakers on my Woodland Pro 30RP set at .022, as it is on the box, .025, and now they are about .028. The .028 is the best, or maybe I'm just sharpening the chain better.

As the cutters get shorter (and gullets get wider) the rakers should be dropped proportionately more to maintain this angle (cutting or raker angle).

A nominal optimum cutting angle based on new chain is 6º. This corresponds to a gullet width of 0.25" for a raker depth of 0.025" which is a gullet to raker depth ratio of ~10:1.

If your gullets are 0.30" wide the raker should be set to 0.030". On one of my chains where the gullets are 0.45" I'm currently running rakers of 0.045" (see picture below).

I've started to ignore the specific raker depth in inches and use a digital angle finder to measure angle rather than raker depth.

Full post here.

For more aggressive cutting just use a higher cutting angle.

 

[Coalsmoke]

Bob, that is a great way to measure them with the angle gauge. I wish I'd thought of that

 

[gemniii]

As the cutters get shorter (and gullets get wider) the rakers should be dropped proportionately more to maintain this angle (cutting or raker angle).

A nominal optimum cutting angle based on new chain is 6º. This corresponds to a gullet width of 0.25" for a raker depth of 0.025" which is a gullet to raker depth ratio of ~10:1.

If your gullets are 0.30" wide the raker should be set to 0.030". On one of my chains where the gullets are 0.45" I'm currently running rakers of 0.045" (see picture below).

I've started to ignore the specific raker depth in inches and use a digital angle finder to measure angle rather than raker depth.

Full post here.

For more aggressive cutting just use a higher cutting angle.

Actually I had tried using a FOP per directions but it seemed easier to just use a straight piece of metal. I put it with 1 edge on the top of a cutter and the other edge going down to the back of the cutter in front (like it looks the FOP is supposed to do) and file the raker down to that line. Then measure that one per normal (straight edge cutter to cutter, measure distance to raker) and file the rest to that level. I use a feeler gauge to check on occasion, but count file strokes.

BobL - on that first picture could you draw a line where you measure the gullet? It looks like about at least 5 measuring marks on my screen.

 

[mtngun]

A nominal optimum cutting angle based on new chain is 6º. This corresponds to a gullet width of 0.25" for a raker depth of 0.025" which is a gullet to raker depth ratio of ~10:1.

If your gullets are 0.30" wide the raker should be set to 0.030". On one of my chains where the gullets are 0.45" I'm currently running rakers of 0.045" (see picture below).

That's an easy formula to remember. :yourock:

 

[BobL]

Actually I had tried using a FOP per directions but it seemed easier to just use a straight piece of metal. I put it with 1 edge on the top of a cutter and the other edge going down to the back of the cutter in front (like it looks the FOP is supposed to do) and file the raker down to that line. Then measure that one per normal (straight edge cutter to cutter, measure distance to raker) and file the rest to that level. I use a feeler gauge to check on occasion, but count file strokes.

Sounds good as long as you round the raker over when you are done.

BobL - on that first picture could you draw a line where you measure the gullet? It looks like about at least 5 measuring marks on my screen.

Technically it's the top purple line that defines the cutting angle but I use the bottom one to get the 10:1 ratio - the difference is only ~ 5% on a new chain and less as the cutter wears.

 

[Brmorgan]

well its funny i get home this morning from the coast and it has warmed up to a balmy -2
so you say keep the wood in the shade. i have been staking my wood in my green house to season. So i guess i should tarp th pile with a airspace around the tarp. or should i cover the green house to leave a bigger airspace.
is there anyone in the 100 mile house area or willys puddle area that would be interested in getting together to do some milling sometimes the best way to learn the tricks of the trade is hands on

Yeah I'm up in Williams Lake. I'm a bit more of a "fairweather" miller myself since it's more of a hobby so I don't usually do too much in the winter, but if you have some logs you want to tackle I might be up for bringing some gear down on a Sunday or something if the weather co-operates. I don't really mind the cold so much, as long as I can keep my fingers warm. The four I've shortened up really don't like the cold!

I just started a job on Friday with a crew that's been clearing undergrowth and small brush around the city limits to help mitigate forest fire risk, and I guess they have one of the contracts doing similar work down near 70 Mile, so there's a good chance I'll be down there on occasion helping with that job too. AFAIK it's going to be full-time work, though they don't work when it gets very cold either. I'll be mostly skidding the small trees & logs etc. out to the main trails and roads with my quad, but might end up cutting too if they need me to. It's familiar work to me anyway and the pay's not bad, and I figure as long as I'm making payments on the quad I might as well put it to work and earn some money with it eh.

 

[mwrunt]

Yeah I'm up in Williams Lake. I'm a bit more of a "fairweather" miller myself since it's more of a hobby so I don't usually do too much in the winter, but if you have some logs you want to tackle I might be up for bringing some gear down on a Sunday or something if the weather co-operates. I don't really mind the cold so much, as long as I can keep my fingers warm. The four I've shortened up really don't like the cold!


i was milling a 3 foot diameter fir that your crew left on the side of the cleanup. it was a bit rotten on the end so i think they didnt bother sending it to the mill but when i cut her back a few feet she cleaned up nice. i am game for milling anytime i have 6 good size logs at home ready to go if you want. all nice ceder i will be fencing my field with. as well i just orderd a 13 in planer to cleanup some of this rough wood. i will pm you my #. thanks.
As for the fingers i have the same problem as i have nerve damage from a accident 2 years ago. i find aslong as i am mooving i am fine. i want to put a electric motorcycle handwarmer on my saw to counter it to