Getting a handle on bidding with the big boys

[John464]

bidding breakdowns can be noted as man hours, equipment hourly, highway traffic control, crash box/illuminated sign rental, etc. Many things can be on a bid sheet. When I submit a bid the only number that really matters is SUBTOTAL. I sometimes just purposely lower certain expenses to achieve the number I need to get. Also factor in equipment. Add the bucket truck/chipper to the equation and there goes another few hundred per hour. Grapple truck there goes more per hour. Suddenly this crew of three guys itemized at $75 per man hour is generating a subtotal of $350 per hour. It's easy to rob peter and pay paul.

If you are bidding at $100 an hour for 3 men and equipment Im fairly certain you will be lower than Asplundh. Id be working on a 2% profit margin if I bid that low.

 

[tippit]

sunrise, you are right. $585 per day, 2 men with forestry package and chipper in our area for the big O, they are impossible to beat. Anyone that thinks you can't make money at these rates never had 7500 crew working for them worldwide. Do the math there are 250 work days in the year not including ER work, Sat, Sun, and Holidays are all at time and a half or double time. Most of us would not be able to pay their daily fuel bill in our lifetime. It is a family owned business and you have to respect that. At one time they built their own bucket trucks and it could be said they basically invented the first chippers. We all like to take shots at them but when you look close and break em down they actually deserve alot of respect for what they have accomplished. Good luck on your bid I hope you can keep em honest.

 

[ropensaddle]

sunrise, you are right. $585 per day, 2 men with forestry package and chipper in our area for the big O, they are impossible to beat. Anyone that thinks you can't make money at these rates never had 7500 crew working for them worldwide. Do the math there are 250 work days in the year not including ER work, Sat, Sun, and Holidays are all at time and a half or double time. Most of us would not be able to pay their daily fuel bill in our lifetime. It is a family owned business and you have to respect that. At one time they built their own bucket trucks and it could be said they basically invented the first chippers. We all like to take shots at them but when you look close and break em down they actually deserve alot of respect for what they have accomplished. Good luck on your bid I hope you can keep em honest.

Yeah as an ex employee I would love to give them their due respect
but then I would be jailed

 

[mckeetree]

The figures I got came from actual bids Asplundh put out in open bidding. My source has absolutely no reason to blow smoke up my :censored: . If you have access to open bids at the county, state, or city level, check 'em out. If you get some hard figures, I'd like to see them. Thanks.

Do you even own a bucket truck? Even one? Do you even have a chipper? I think you are disillusioned as to what it takes to put a crew in the field.

 

[ropensaddle]

Do you even own a bucket truck? Even one? Do you even have a chipper? I think you are disillusioned as to what it takes to put a crew in the field.

I own one and several other pieces and I am too small. I have checked
into it I found out they really won't consider you unless you have 13
crews fully equipped talk about keeping the small man down

 

[mckeetree]

I own one and several other pieces and I am too small. I have checked
into it I found out they really won't consider you unless you have 13
crews fully equipped talk about keeping the small man down

You are right. Why is he even worried about what Asplundh bids anyway?

 

[Sunrise Guy]

You are right. Why is he even worried about what Asplundh bids anyway?

I'm not worried about Asplundh. I just am getting into bidding bigger jobs at the commercial level with a medium-sized company in town. We are planning various strategies, and we need to have a good idea what we're up against.

For those who want to tell me I'm crazy believing the $75/hr. figure, that's fine. You can stay comfortable believing what you want. Those of you who know that figure is correct obviously have more experience with larger-scale job bidding. As pointed out, before, when you have thousands of crews working around the globe on any given day, even clearing a few dollars a day can translate into far more dollars than most of us will see in a year.

FYI: Asplundh routinely starts crew leaders at $13/hr. Asplundh has a stream-lined, bilingual training program and can keep their starting guys pushing through their revolving doors at $8-10/hr. Take a three-man crew at around $35/hr., charge around $75/hr. for them, and you're making $40X8= $320/day, over what you're paying out for the crew. Now multiply that by a few thousand crews. If any of you think that you can't run a business on $300K+/day, well, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn that I'll sell you for a very good price!

I'm done posting in this thread. I have the info I needed, and that's that. You guys may say what you want about what I now know, but the facts will stand, despite whatever you may think.

 

[lxt]

Sunrise, C`mon..... you are figuring for just wages alone! you have to consider operational costs...no matter how big the company is they have operational costs!

300k a day, clear??? what about advertisement, insurance, new purchases, maintenance, office personnel, supplies, on hand inventory(doing nothing), hurt workers collecting benefits, etc.... even asplundh must account for all these things when bidding!

you are thinking 35 an hour for 3 men, so crewleader at $13hr & 2 other workers at...we`ll say $9hr = $31 for the 3 workers!! leaving whoever at a $4 hr profit???? LOL! you seem to forget taxes, insurance, fuel & all the other things mentioned above!!

If whoever is bidding at that low a price & you want a chunk of that pie...you are a fool!! you will work for nothing! & in the end some other dummy is gonna out bid you.....sounds to me like a game of how low can you go! & the only winner is the contractee!

even at $75 an hour for 3 men, to pay 13hr you better charge atleast $24hr to break even & at $8-9 hr charge $15 an hr leaving $26 an hour for operational costs......Umm.....I dont think so!

LXT.............

 

[ropensaddle]

You are right. Why is he even worried about what Asplundh bids anyway?

He probably like I did wants to do steady work and make a consistant
profit. Power line maintenance would keep you from having to wait on
jobs when the phone gets slow! I just want to do their stumps so I
have a chance on that but at first I was slow and wanted to clear lines
at a per span basis.

 

[corndogg]

I own one and several other pieces and I am too small. I have checked
into it I found out they really won't consider you unless you have 13
crews fully equipped talk about keeping the small man down

There is a small tree service here in Mineapolis, MN that now works for the local utility. They have 2 buckets, 1 chip truck and chippers and a bobcat from what I have seen. They seemed to have partnered with the utility as the utility help sell tree work on their website. http://www.whe.org/whresponse/index.asp
They might have a very sweet deal not based on price but quality and service.
It's not impossible.

 

[corndogg]

He probably like I did wants to do steady work and make a consistant
profit. Power line maintenance would keep you from having to wait on
jobs when the phone gets slow! I just want to do their stumps so I
have a chance on that but at first I was slow and wanted to clear lines
at a per span basis.

Also it may not be as steady as we think. A local truck repair shop that works on a small utility tree service's trucks was told by the tree guys that the utilities had no more money/work and they were heading home mid summer.

Not trying to pick on you ROPE just had some points relating to what you said.

 

[Toddppm]

$35.00/manhour might not be bad at all if they are making up the overhead on the trucks and equipment which has to be at the job too. Lots of ways to make the labor look apetizing, kind of a bait and switch but sometimes that's what it takes to get the right persons attention.

 

[jefflovstrom]

We bid at $55-$60 dollars per man hour,But we don't do resedential work.
Jeff

 

[ropensaddle]

Also it may not be as steady as we think. A local truck repair shop that works on a small utility tree service's trucks was told by the tree guys that the utilities had no more money/work and they were heading home mid summer.

Not trying to pick on you ROPE just had some points relating to what you said.

Oh **** corndawg pick away my skins thick I feel
that way out in rural areas the prospect of obtaining contracts
more promising. Around here it is big guys 125 bucket trucks for
instance and they have year round employment. I would love to
get in on the gig per span and let my experiance make me denero.
I have checked into it and was told the requirements and unfortunately
I don't have the capital to put my old boss out of business but I would if I did.

 

[mckeetree]

Sunrise, C`mon..... you are figuring for just wages alone! you have to consider operational costs...no matter how big the company is they have operational costs!

300k a day, clear??? what about advertisement, insurance, new purchases, maintenance, office personnel, supplies, on hand inventory(doing nothing), hurt workers collecting benefits, etc.... even asplundh must account for all these things when bidding!

you are thinking 35 an hour for 3 men, so crewleader at $13hr & 2 other workers at...we`ll say $9hr = $31 for the 3 workers!! leaving whoever at a $4 hr profit???? LOL! you seem to forget taxes, insurance, fuel & all the other things mentioned above!!

If whoever is bidding at that low a price & you want a chunk of that pie...you are a fool!! you will work for nothing! & in the end some other dummy is gonna out bid you.....sounds to me like a game of how low can you go! & the only winner is the contractee!

even at $75 an hour for 3 men, to pay 13hr you better charge atleast $24hr to break even & at $8-9 hr charge $15 an hr leaving $26 an hour for operational costs......Umm.....I dont think so!

LXT.............

Great minds think alike. That is exactly what I was going to say.

 

[Bigus Termitius]

So much for the stock in the multitude of counsel.

 

[Mitchell]

hr rates

A bit of perspective.

The disclaimer; well every market is a bit different however, the quality and cost of living are not to different around this board.

I removed some trees for a fellow yesterday and in the course of chatting he showed me his merry maid contract. They come in and clean his house a couple times a month. They are charging 55 a "man" hr. The maid gets 20 I understand. When I expressed astonishment, he replied "well they bring their own equipment!"

Its bunk we often get less then that here per man hour [with far higher overhead and risk], I think the relevant point is, when running employees legit, straying to far below 50 a man hour is not going to be viable long term who ever or where ever you are. Other business with lots of competition like Mechanics, plumbers, electricians, and even maids generally charge more per hour [with less overhead]. They are not greedy, rather those numbers speak to what it takes to run a business in our respective countries.

My problem here is to many guys charge well below those numbers and by cutting big corners like paying help under the table, cash work etc, they can meet a similar profit margin to some one charging higher but walking the line.