Going shopping but have a ? first
- Thread starter Brush Hog
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. when i started outfitting myself i purchased a wire core lanyard as well as a 1/2'' rope lanyard. on take downs i use the rope lanyard as a second tie in. on pruning jobs its great for some positioning and tie in as well. for the cost get both man, you can never have too many pieces of safety equipment
Magnum783
ArboristSite Guru
I recommend both but a little different take on it that than the previous post. I agree yes a wire core flip line. I have one and love it use it all the time. AS far as the rope lanyard no way. I built mine I used 7/16" velocity and a 21" tenex eye and eye for an adjuster with a micro pulley to tend the slack. I connect that to one side D with a ox carabiner and the other end I tied a rope snap with a double fisherman and a thimble. Mine is 15' I think it started as 18' but I cut the end slightly so I just shortened it that is the great part. I also use it as a small redirect at times. I really like it and use it all the time.
I have attached a picture so that might mean I just wasted all this typing.
Just my two cents.
Jared
I have attached a picture so that might mean I just wasted all this typing.
Just my two cents.
Jared
Bermie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Seems to me a Grillon is expensive! They don't come very long either.
If you want a rope lanyard I think its cheaper to build one yourself and you can have a nice long one, mine is 20' of 1/2"xtc, beeline distel and a micro pulley, double action snap on one end tied with a double fishermans.
I use the rope lanyard for second attachment all the time.
I add a wirecore when doing takedowns for the extra feeling of security and the 'flippiness' on a relatively bare pole.
If you want a rope lanyard I think its cheaper to build one yourself and you can have a nice long one, mine is 20' of 1/2"xtc, beeline distel and a micro pulley, double action snap on one end tied with a double fishermans.
I use the rope lanyard for second attachment all the time.
I add a wirecore when doing takedowns for the extra feeling of security and the 'flippiness' on a relatively bare pole.
Magnum783
ArboristSite Guru
BLACKeR
ArboristSite Member
so he had the same opinion as you big deal? i looked at your picture, i do the same thing.
haha you and like 95% of the rest of the tree climbing world....no secret. forget the Grillion just get a rope lanyard and wire core and go with it. I think alot of people get caught up in the gadget world of this work and forget that when you are 50' up in a tree simple is better and using rope/ cable based support allows you to stay flexible and opens up options when you need them.
Magnum783
ArboristSite Guru
No I was just saying that I agree. I had no idea how many people do that. I really like it glad to hear other do too.
Jared
booboo
ArboristSite Operative
FWIW, the set-up in the photo is basically what I'm using too. Works well and simple too.
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
What worries me about guys using wirecores is they seem to forget that they are cut resistant, not cut proof. Too many climbers act as if the wircore were made of rebar and cannot be cut. It can be cut. I feel the wirecores promote a bit sloppier handling of the saw. If you can't keep your saw off your lanyard, how do you keep it off your rope?
Bermie
Addicted to ArboristSite
Because your picture is almost 1 MB in size and I didn't have an hour to wait for it to drip through my dial-up!
Glad we're on the same page with the lanyard set-up though:biggrinbounce2:
Magnum783
ArboristSite Guru
Next time I will make it smaller. I suck at computers so I will have to ask the wife how do such a thing.
Jared
Fireaxman
ArboristSite Guru
I think I'ld like to take a shot at answering that. I'm a big believer in the wire core. Mine has a number of knicks in the cover - not from the chain saw, but from the Silkie. There has never been a knick in any of my climbing lines.
Because my wire core is my secondary tie in when I am cutting it is more in harms way. My climbing line ascends directly up from my saddle and therefor is not directly under the saw. The wire core is around the spar, usually directly under the branch, and therefor directly in harms way from the follow through after the saw breaks through the cut.
A chain saw can make it through the wire core if you are really sloppy. But the Silkie will not. Someone in another thread said a silkie can cut half inch climbing line under load in one good stroke. I believe it.
The wire core also flips better. I'm not saying a rope flip line isn't useful - Bermie and the rest who advocate them are excellent authorities - but if you can only have one, get a wire core - especially if you are a comparitive novice like me.
One other quick note - I do have a rope link between my wire core and my saddle at the adjuster (I use a CMI ascender for adjustment), right next to the saddle. That is so someone can cut me loose if needed in a rescue without bringing up a pair of bolt cutters. There has been some debate on the site about this, but since the rope link is close to the saddle and on my left side (I cut right handed) I think it is out of harms way and a worth considering.
lees trees
ArboristSite Operative
I like my wirecore unless I'm in the power then my chicken strap is just rope
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
You have a "number of knicks" in your wirecore? Sloppy saw handling? If you can't keep a silky off a lanyard how do you keep the saw off it?
Don't do many removals with alot of stem chunking, huh? My climbing line is usually under my lanyard. Keeping the saw off the lanyard keeps it off my rope. Two hands on a saw helps to keep it under control when finishing the cut. Do you just let it drop through the cut? Maybe a wirecore is a good idea, something to slow the saw down before it hits your legs.
Flips better cause it's stiffer. To be honest i deal with stiff ropes and lanyards all winter long and hate it-i prefer the flexibility. Frozen wirecores suck. For a smaller person i can see where a wirecore would help in flipping but with an 80" wingspan, can usually get my arms out and around enough to flip. And if it's too big for even me to flip, just set a line and climb up to where it gets smaller. Plus can also daisy-chain my fliplines so they aren't hanging down in the way. Can a wirecore be daisy-chained? So if i need a 20+ foot wirecore at the base it's going to be dangling in the way even when i get up far enough that i only need a couple feet? No thanks. Besides, what's the cost of a wirecore these days? How many rope flip lines can be made for the same cost. Would rather have two rope flip lines than one wirecore any day of the week-much more versatile.
Ah, the crux of the matter-you're right, probably a good idea for newbs to start with wirecores. Much more forgiving. But my original point was that this forgiveness can lead to very bad habits. I started with a rope-flip line, was taught that one mistake can end your life-makes me respect my fliplines like you wouldn't believe.
And if a newb decides to switch to rope, does he have enough respect for his flipline or are the bad habits he picked up with a wirecore going to get him hurt. To be honest, when you said you have a number of nicks in your flipline, it shocked me. In twelve years of climbing have only nicked my lines once.
Not trying to be a jerk here or anything, just giving out a different viewpoint. Actually do have a wirecore in the truck that gets used a couple times a month.
Fireaxman
ArboristSite Guru
It is the folow-through after the cut that gets the flip line. With the 200T there is little downward pressure on the saw, no follow-through, and no knicks. With the Silkie I have to keep a little downward pressure on the saw. Therfor, the follow-through and the knicks.
I do mostly pruning (Katrina damage), but some removals (Pine Bark Beetles from Katrina damage). When I am chunking down stems my climbing line becomes my secondary, below the double wrapped flip line SRT style with a descender. The wire core above the climbing line would HELP to keep the 200T off the climbing line. Not bullet PROOF, but certainly a reasonable caution.
No argument. Cold weather is not a problem down here, and my arms are probably a good bit shorter than yours. All climbing equipment should be chosen with the climbing style and environment of the individual in mind.
Yes, they can be extended with rope on the left side for a right handed climber by a few feet with no ill effect, and I occasionally need to do this for the first few feet up on a big live oak. Of course, if you "Daisy Chain" them more than a few feet, far enough that you cannot reach the eye of the wire core, you lose the "Flip" advantage, it becomes harder to flip than rope. You still retain the advantage of cut resistance, and it can still be flipped, just not as easily. But this has never been a problem for me with my 16 foot lanyard. Like you said, if the tree is too fat put a rope in it.
$78 from Sherrill for a 1/2" X 12'. $110 for a 1/2" by 16' or a 5/8 by 15'. How much is a life worth?
A "Bad Habit" starts with the first, in our trade possibly fatal, wrong move. If I ever break a wire strand on that wire core I will know I have developed a bad habit. I will also know the wire core probably saved me from major injury or fatality. Good incentive to break the habit before the next "Near Miss", an opportunity I may not have had without the wire core.
This IS the 101 forum is it not? Did I get mis-located?
I am also not trying to be disrespectful. Discussion is good, I value your experience, and I think we are having a good discussion. Your arguments in behalf of the rope flip line are good. People need to hear (see) both the pros and cons of each option.
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I think beowulf was saying that he uses a "daisy chain" to shorten the hanging tail of an extra long flip line. Meaning, a 15' foot required flipline at the base of a tree turns into needing 3' as you work your way up. That 12' of hanging flipline can get tangled or caught up in things you don't want it to be in. Beowulf shortens up that tail with a daisy chain. Possible with a wire core, but it would be ugly and maybe more likely to catch something
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