Good Wood Source Gone Due 2 Economy

[cjcocn]

Today I met up with a local logger that I usually get my seasoned wood from. Generally I go out to his logging sites when they are not working and pick up the seasoned wood that he piles up for me. We try and coordinate this so that I am out there right after he piles it up so that no one else takes it (I pay him for his fuel costs to pile the wood - the only one to do so). He has to get rid of the dry stuff anyway because it is considered a fire hazard, so this arrangement has worked out for both of us.

Well, the local mill is not taking in anymore logs as they are no longer selling lumber to the US (their main market) due to high fuel costs and the strength of the Canadian dollar vs the US dollar.

He'd just partnered with another logger and they were just getting wound up to produce some major volume of timber. I was out at one of his sites before the spring thaw (winter cut areas) and he had quite a bit of wood on the ground waiting for the trucks to come in. They were looking at a good summer-cut season, but now everything is at a standstill. It's a good thing that they both have (as far as I know) their equipment paid off!

My problem doesn't seem quite as large compared to them losing their contracts, but I still have lost my main source of firewood.

I guess now I'll have to put in an honest day's work hauling trees out of the bush from now on!

Who knows, maybe I will figure out a way to get wood without a huge increase in labor. I was thinking that I can run my quad into old cutting areas and clean up the dry stuff that was left behind. If I build me a logging arch I should be able to move a bit of wood without bringing home too much real estate.

Any other logging slow-downs out there that have affected your firewood hauling process?

 

[spike60]

Yeah, but in a different way down here than what you posted. Some of the guys were talking about this in the store on Saturday. For most woods, the mills aren't paying squat around here. A lot of the wood that used to go to the mill is more valuable as firewood at this point. So in a way it makes more wood available in this area.

 

[mga]

Yeah, but in a different way down here than what you posted. Some of the guys were talking about this in the store on Saturday. For most woods, the mills aren't paying squat around here. A lot of the wood that used to go to the mill is more valuable as firewood at this point. So in a way it makes more wood available in this area.

the only problem with firewood is that it's an alternative heat source.

firwood has to always remain lower than the cost of natural gas, propane, oil or electric as a heat source. if not, then it would be more convenient just to turn on the furnace. this poses a problem for firewood sellers. as the cost of fuel rises, labor and equipment does also, and there is a point when you can no longer expect a customer to absorb the higher costs. why would they bother with wood when using natural gas is easier and just as expensive (not to mention less hassles) at some point, it won't be worth it to go thru all that work and sell firewood, nor will it be worth it to buy it.

my other concern about firewood is as it becomes more popular, it will attract more attention by firemarshals, insurance companies and, as we have seen here already, many towns are writing new ordinances about burning firewood. then, there are those environmentalists who are against burning wood all together. i'm afraid that new legislation will eventually be introduced and burning firewood and enjoying a warm fire will be a thing of the past.

i know it sounds far fetched today, but as anything goes....so goes the government.

just my opinion.

 

[froghollar]

Theirs going to be a revolution.

 

[Tazman1602]

Today I met up with a local logger that I usually get my seasoned wood from. Generally I go out to his logging sites when they are not working and pick up the seasoned wood that he piles up for me. We try and coordinate this so that I am out there right after he piles it up so that no one else takes it (I pay him for his fuel costs to pile the wood - the only one to do so). He has to get rid of the dry stuff anyway because it is considered a fire hazard, so this arrangement has worked out for both of us.

Well, the local mill is not taking in anymore logs as they are no longer selling lumber to the US (their main market) due to high fuel costs and the strength of the Canadian dollar vs the US dollar.

He'd just partnered with another logger and they were just getting wound up to produce some major volume of timber. I was out at one of his sites before the spring thaw (winter cut areas) and he had quite a bit of wood on the ground waiting for the trucks to come in. They were looking at a good summer-cut season, but now everything is at a standstill. It's a good thing that they both have (as far as I know) their equipment paid off!

My problem doesn't seem quite as large compared to them losing their contracts, but I still have lost my main source of firewood.

I guess now I'll have to put in an honest day's work hauling trees out of the bush from now on!

Who knows, maybe I will figure out a way to get wood without a huge increase in labor. I was thinking that I can run my quad into old cutting areas and clean up the dry stuff that was left behind. If I build me a logging arch I should be able to move a bit of wood without bringing home too much real estate.

Any other logging slow-downs out there that have affected your firewood hauling process?

Housing starts are in the sh*tter so lumber prices are way low. I just paid $750 for this load delivered. VERY reasonable.

Don't sweat it dude. The economy in the US is bad and it's coming to a town near you..............keep piling up that wood, stocking gas and bullets....

 

[mga]

Housing starts are in the sh*tter so lumber prices are way low. I just paid $750 for this load delivered. VERY reasonable.

Don't sweat it dude. The economy in the US is bad and it's coming to a town near you..............keep piling up that wood, stocking gas and bullets....

lol..hate to say it, but i agree. i really don't see things improving for a long long time. so....i just keep grabbing all the free wood i can get my hands on.

ya never know....and the shelf life is reasonable.

 

[cjcocn]

Yeah, but in a different way down here than what you posted. Some of the guys were talking about this in the store on Saturday. For most woods, the mills aren't paying squat around here. A lot of the wood that used to go to the mill is more valuable as firewood at this point. So in a way it makes more wood available in this area.

Yes, I was thinking about that as I was writing this thread. To me it means that I have to put out more effort for my firewood, but it still isn't my family's source of income like it is for those who have lost their contracts. Also, by posting this on AS I figured it would be read by those who depend on the logging industry much more than I do (chainsaw dealers, loggers, etc).

As far as wood being more available, that will also drive prices down after a while as folks get anxious to recoup some of their costs for timber that they had hoped to sell to mills even as the rising cost of fuel and oil increases the cost of procuring firewood to sell.

It will sure make things interesting for as long as the logging industry is in a slump, especially when indirect industries start feeling it.

 

[cjcocn]

the only problem with firewood is that it's an alternative heat source.

firwood has to always remain lower than the cost of natural gas, propane, oil or electric as a heat source. if not, then it would be more convenient just to turn on the furnace. this poses a problem for firewood sellers. as the cost of fuel rises, labor and equipment does also, and there is a point when you can no longer expect a customer to absorb the higher costs. why would they bother with wood when using natural gas is easier and just as expensive (not to mention less hassles) at some point, it won't be worth it to go thru all that work and sell firewood, nor will it be worth it to buy it.

my other concern about firewood is as it becomes more popular, it will attract more attention by firemarshals, insurance companies and, as we have seen here already, many towns are writing new ordinances about burning firewood. then, there are those environmentalists who are against burning wood all together. i'm afraid that new legislation will eventually be introduced and burning firewood and enjoying a warm fire will be a thing of the past.

i know it sounds far fetched today, but as anything goes....so goes the government.

just my opinion.

Some excellent points raised here. One of the more popular heating alternatives here is hydro electricity (electric furnaces, baseboard heaters, etc). Spend some $$ to increase the energy efficiency of ones home and electric heat becomes a more attractive option. This will happen even faster if firewood sellers attempt to offload too much of their increased costs to their customers - make the cost of firewood too high and (like you said) it will be easier to decide to just turn up the heat register.

I couldn't agree more about the chance of increased legislation if burning firewood were to become extremely popular. More hoops to jump through generally equals more costs (increased permit fees, additional licenses, .... stumpage fees for dry wood?). Yep, I can definitely see more legislative attention being paid to firewood if its popularity skyrockets. Sounds pretty grim to consider those types of increased costs as more "normal" costs are also rising.

 

[mga]

Some excellent points raised here. One of the more popular heating alternatives here is hydro electricity (electric furnaces, baseboard heaters, etc). Spend some $$ to increase the energy efficiency of ones home and electric heat becomes a more attractive option. This will happen even faster if firewood sellers attempt to offload too much of their increased costs to their customers - make the cost of firewood too high and (like you said) it will be easier to decide to just turn up the heat register.

I couldn't agree more about the chance of increased legislation if burning firewood were to become extremely popular. More hoops to jump through generally equals more costs (increased permit fees, additional licenses, .... stumpage fees for dry wood?). Yep, I can definitely see more legislative attention being paid to firewood if its popularity skyrockets. Sounds pretty grim to consider those types of increased costs as more "normal" costs are also rising.

electricity varies in cost from place to place. personally, around here i believe it's rather expensive versus natural gas.

however, i agree that people should invest in insulation and whatever they can to keep their homes as efficient as possible....even those who burn wood.
we heat with wood, but i have a gas hot water tank, gas dryer and gas stove. my monthly gas bill last winter was really low, but the "delivery" charge was almost as much as my basic gas bill!! they get you no matter which way you bend.

 

[cjcocn]

Housing starts are in the sh*tter so lumber prices are way low. I just paid $750 for this load delivered. VERY reasonable.

Don't sweat it dude. The economy in the US is bad and it's coming to a town near you..............keep piling up that wood, stocking gas and bullets....

Yeah, the initial impact is positive for Canadian consumers as the near parity in currency makes it worthwhile to shop in the US, but meanwhile Canadian businesses start to suffer. Couple that with the already hurting US businesses and the cycle continues to the point where people here will start feeling the effects. The end result is that our dollar is worth more in the US, but less and less of us will have those dollars to spend. (a simplified explanation, I know, but in general that is what can be expected to happen)

I'm figuring a few ways to get the easiest access to wood, I ain't short of bullets, but keeping gas from going stale is a tough one!

 

[secureland]

I'm sure people will be cutting more firewood around here in western new york. Oil prices are high, and log prices are low.
I was talking to my county forester the other day and asked him about White Ash log prices. He told me what Ash logs were selling for and then I asked him how much firewood was in a 24" White Ash tree. Come to find out, theres more value in a 24" ash as firewood then as logs.

Bill

 

[turnkey4099]

With fuel oil over $4.00 lcurrently (have seen it up to $4.3x) there is a lot of room for firewood price to go way up before is it just as expensive as oil.

Electric? Back in the 50s and 60s they (power companies) were pushing it heavily here (Pacific NW) where almosst all electric is hydo. Well that was a bust as it turned out to be the most expensive source. Now? I am beginning to wonder if it won't begin to be competitive.

My problem on the firewooding is the cost of gas. At my age I am not good for more than about 3-4 hours out in the bush cutting and loading. Not time enough to make a full load. Thus the cost is getting very high per cord by the time I need 3-4 trips per. Can't afford to go very far.

Harry K

 

[skid row]

Around these parts all the free hardwood is snatched real quick with fuel prices being so high. Last year and previous years good free hardwood was abundant this time of year and was all over the place for the taking. When early fall would roll around it would be a scramble for the free stuff.

I expect to see alot more firewood sellers this year than ever before. It will also be interesting to see how high the cordwood prices soar next winter.

 

[aandabooks]

The price of firewood is making me think about selling a few cords. But I am hoarding them and know how much work it takes.

As MGA said in his initial post in this thread about the cost of wood only being able to go up so high before it is not worth it, I agree. Just looking at my own situation, if I were buying wood at the going rate per cord, I could only afford to buy 2.5 cords before my savings on the gas bill would be wiped out. I went through 5 cords last winter and 3 the winter before that. Going rate around me seems to be $250 per cord and I only save about $600 per winter heating with wood.

At least 3 winters ago. I haven't not run the woodburner to find out what my monthly bill would be now. I installed the wood burner for the 05-06 season.

 

[MJR]

Your quad can do great things with firewood. I am working on some maple tops. I use my quad and a large cart. I can get ¼ FC on the cart. Going down hills I drag a log behind the cart. These tops are only 200-300 yars off the road. Locally, all logging has stopped and we are unable to get fire wood logs delivered. A FC delivered is going for $75 and I am sure that price will be going up by the end of the summer. I have 11 full cord cut and spilt. Half of this is stacked. Once I have the rest stacked I will keep cutting while the free stuff is there. I may get a few years a head but I feel the days of free wood may be in sight.

 

[ghitch75]

i just finished yesterday haulin' 91 loads like the one in the pic from 200 acre loggin' job a 1/4 mile from my house(over 1,000,000 board foot)...this is there last job till fall...poor guys don't know what there goin' to do....they might loose there equipment...can't make payments if they can't cut trees:jawdrop: ...sad state this country's gettin' in!!

 

[cruzer]

just asked a guy for a quote on cut delivered rounds here in CT- 140 for ROUNDS that's not even split... right now i could probably get a cord for 180 so thats not worth it to me.

I have less time to scrounge wood this year which sucks becuase it is only going to get worse. I think i am going to go for a grapple load soon if i can find one around here. If it's going to be my primary heat then i want to be well stocked.

I do have the opertunity to cut at two places maybe but they are about 20 and 25miles one way so... not sure what i am going to do.

Stew

 

[darren_nh]

just asked a guy for a quote on cut delivered rounds here in CT- 140 for ROUNDS that's not even split... right now i could probably get a cord for 180 so thats not worth it to me.

I have less time to scrounge wood this year which sucks becuase it is only going to get worse. I think i am going to go for a grapple load soon if i can find one around here. If it's going to be my primary heat then i want to be well stocked.

I do have the opertunity to cut at two places maybe but they are about 20 and 25miles one way so... not sure what i am going to do.

Stew

Stew,
Keep an eye on craigslist in CT. I remember a guy listing grapple loads for $395 last summer.

I just paid $650 for a grapple here in NH. Last time (two years ago) it was $550. The two years before that is was $450. You get the picture.

I going rate for cut/split delivered is $170-$180. They all just went up $10/cord. I won't buy log lenth unless I can get it for half of the cut/split delivered price.

I think the problem up here is the mills are paying more for pulp than the loggers can get for a grapple of firewood. So why deal with a homeowner when you can just go to the mill.

 

[spike60]

OK, let's not make it any worse than it really is.

I think there will be some additional OWB regs to make them burn cleaner, and I don't think thats unfair. Regular wood stoves already have to meet EPA regs, so why not the OWB's? Plus, once they conform to a federal standard, it will be harder for smaller municipalities to ban them. Most indoor woodstoves burn both clean and efficiently. The EPA regs that they must conform to is how this whole issue was addressed the last time there was a big jump in the popularity of wood heat. So in sense, this ground has already been covered.

There is no way on earth that any politician, local or state government can try to stop wood burning of any kind with heating oil heading towards $5.00 a gallon. Most people would have no affordable alternative. It would be political suicide for anyone to say that you are not allowed to burn wood, and must come up with several thousand dollars and give it to the oil companies if you want to keep your family warm. Just can't see it getting that bad.

I do agree that free wood sources are going to be harder to find, or at least harder to keep to yourself. For those of us that always have the radar on for wood for our own use, your just going to have to move a little quicker on stuff that is there for the taking. But most of us should be OK. And I think stocking up a little farther ahead is a good idea.

I think the bigger change will be in the buying and selling of firewood. Not all of this wood comes from logging operations. A lot of it comes from lot clearing jobs, and with building down, there isn't much of that wood around this year. It's going to be harder for those guys to find wood for their customers. So, those customers will be paying more.

It will all be interesting to watch. Those of us here on AS are keeping an eye on things, but most people aren't going to give it much thought until the heating season approaches. Thats when it's really going to hit the fan.

 

[mga]

I do agree that free wood sources are going to be harder to find, or at least harder to keep to yourself. For those of us that always have the radar on for wood for our own use, your just going to have to move a little quicker on stuff that is there for the taking. But most of us should be OK. And I think stocking up a little farther ahead is a good idea.

the key here is ambition. we all know it's really hard work to use firewood. i know many people who just feel it isn't worth their time to go thru all that blood, sweat and tears just for wood. so, fortunately for us, there are many out there who feel that way.