Granberg File-N-Joint, Revisited

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I got the Oregon one with plastic and didn't have very good luck with it.
I got a Granberg at a junk shop and it works absolutely great !
I recently stumbled on a Silvey grinder and that is much quicker and more convenient and does a great job.

I think I'll leave this one as is, hanging with my Homelite collection. :smile2:

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View attachment 224345
 
Not sure on yours, but on my italian oregon model you can adjust it so that the cutters are all filed back to the same length.

M-tooth I owe you an apology on this point. I responded that counting strokes will provide you with cutters of the same length. But that assumes that you started with cutters the same length! Tonight, I was filing an older chain that I got from someone, and realized that that feature could help you 'true up' a chain that had been more casually sharpened, without using some type of measuring device (micrometer, ruler/scale, etc.).

The Granberg I recently purchased has this feature; it is a cheap, plastic nut that rubs against the square, middle rail. I am not sure how accurate it would be, but it could be of use with a chain that has cutter lengths all over the place.

If yours is not-so-good, maybe buy an older one off of the 'Bay.

Madhatte - I tried your advice and scanned my local Craig'sList and eBay. Something interesting was a significant design difference (see photo) between some of the older models and the current model, and from the model that Sawnami a photo of in Post #10.

P5173069.jpg

There were several models that looked like this one. Aside from the materials used and the quality of the finish, note how the one in far left of this photo (actually an Oregon model) has a much smaller base casting. It is missing the adjustable guides/cleats on each side that clamp above the rivets to stabilize the chain, and to keep the chain from rising up, out of the bar groove.

Note the name change from 'File-N-Guide' to 'File-N-Joint'.

Do any of you guys with the older model Granbergs have ones like this? Do you have any problems with the chains moving or rising up when filing?

Philbert
 
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Well, I poked around Craig'sList and e-Bay for a few weeks.

I found a lot of Granbergs that looked like the new ones, but usually for more $ (thanks). Some of these were labeled 'vintage'. I found a bunch that looked like the one in Post #23, without the chain hold-down cleats on the side ('File-N-Guide' vs 'File-N-Joint'), which I think is an important feature. I found several of the cheaper Oregon models, again, for much more than I can find them at local stores (thanks again).

Finally found one of the older models, similar to Sawnami's in Post #10, but not as nice, that would have been about $26 shipped. Almost bought it, but it was hard to tell what condition it was in from the photo. Then found the 'better' Oregon one (23736A Professional Bar-Mount Filing Guide) on sale for $35 shipped and ordered that one.

I think that I will try to add some metal stiffener to the plastic frames on this one, and keep my eyes open for a STIHL at a garage sale!

Philbert
 
Well, I poked around Craig'sList and e-Bay for a few weeks.

I found a lot of Granbergs that looked like the new ones, but usually for more $ (thanks). Some of these were labeled 'vintage'. I found a bunch that looked like the one in Post #23, without the chain hold-down cleats on the side ('File-N-Guide' vs 'File-N-Joint'), which I think is an important feature. I found several of the cheaper Oregon models, again, for much more than I can find them at local stores (thanks again).

Finally found one of the older models, similar to Sawnami's in Post #10, but not as nice, that would have been about $26 shipped. Almost bought it, but it was hard to tell what condition it was in from the photo. Then found the 'better' Oregon one (23736A Professional Bar-Mount Filing Guide) on sale for $35 shipped and ordered that one.

I think that I will try to add some metal stiffener to the plastic frames on this one, and keep my eyes open for a STIHL at a garage sale!

Philbert

Is this the better Oregon guide?View attachment 227208
 
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Is this the better Oregon guide?

Sorry Rynomagnum, your link did not work. The 'better' Oregon is the model 23736A 'Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide', made in Italy, and shown in the top photo of Post#25, above. The 'economy' Oregon is the model 23820 'Sure Sharp Chain Saw Manual Filing/Sharpening Guide', formerly made in Italy, now made in China, and shown in the bottom photo of the same post.

These appear to be made by Tecomec as their 'De Luxe' and 'Super Rapid' models, respectively.

Since starting this quest, I have found versions of the Granberg filing guide with a Sears nameplate, and other variations with different saw manufacturers names on them. There is also a European variation floating around e-Bay that looks like a hybrid - Granberg body with plastic top from economy Oregon/Tecomec model.

Thee is also a GB bar mounted chain filing guide floating around e-Bay that I had not seen before, but it did not seem to work with .325 chain, or ignored it. Said it works with 3/8, Low Profile, and .404 chain (?) Maybe this is a misprint and why it did not sell so well?

One of the things I really like about these Granberg/Oregon type guides is that they are not chain or saw specific. They work with commonly available, inexpensive files, and don't care who manufactured the chain; whether it is full comp, skip tooth, or semi skip; full or semi chisel cutters; whether or not the chain is low kickback; etc. Some filing products work very well with certain types of chains only, which is fine if it works with what you use. But you need a collection of them to cover a variety of chains.


Has anyone tried the Timberline sharpener yet? It looks really high quality and less fiddly than those others.

Whole thread on that: < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm > Has 22 pages as of today!

Philbert
 
There is an entire thread devoted to the Timberline here: http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm

Most that own it(including meyself), are very impressed with how it sharpens, it's size(therefore portability), and it's ease of use. It does take a little bit of time using it for the first time, but once you figure out how it works, it does very well.

I bought mine after using my Mother-in-law's Oregon version of this File'n'joint on her chains the local shop "sharpened" for her. Every cutter was a different length, some nearly to the guide line, after 2 sharpening. I believe it was their cheaper version but I couldn't get it to work well. I attribute it mostly to the crazy grind job on her chains but it led me to look for other ways of sharpening without a grinder.

Nick
 
One of the things I really like about these Granberg/Oregon type guides is that they are not chain or saw specific. They work with commonly available, inexpensive files, and don't care who manufactured the chain; whether it is full comp, skip tooth, or semi skip; full or semi chisel cutters; whether or not the chain is low kickback; etc.
Philbert
I think I even remember reading on here about someone modifying one for square ground. :)
 
Sorry Rynomagnum, your link did not work. The 'better' Oregon is the model 23736A 'Professional Chain Saw Bar-Mount Filing Guide', made in Italy, and shown in the top photo of Post#25, above. The 'economy' Oregon is the model 23820 'Sure Sharp Chain Saw Manual Filing/Sharpening Guide', formerly made in Italy, now made in China, and shown in the bottom photo of the same post.

These appear to be made by Tecomec as their 'De Luxe' and 'Super Rapid' models, respectively.

Since starting this quest, I have found versions of the Granberg filing guide with a Sears nameplate, and other variations with different saw manufacturers names on them. There is also a European variation floating around e-Bay that looks like a hybrid - Granberg body with plastic top from economy Oregon/Tecomec model.

Thee is also a GB bar mounted chain filing guide floating around e-Bay that I had not seen before, but it did not seem to work with .325 chain, or ignored it. Said it works with 3/8, Low Profile, and .404 chain (?) Maybe this is a misprint and why it did not sell so well?

One of the things I really like about these Granberg/Oregon type guides is that they are not chain or saw specific. They work with commonly available, inexpensive files, and don't care who manufactured the chain; whether it is full comp, skip tooth, or semi skip; full or semi chisel cutters; whether or not the chain is low kickback; etc. Some filing products work very well with certain types of chains only, which is fine if it works with what you use. But you need a collection of them to cover a variety of chains.




Whole thread on that: < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/180488.htm > Has 22 pages as of today!

Philbert
Maybe this time it will work? View attachment 227212
I don't know which one this is? I've had it for a while.
 
I think I even remember reading on here about someone modifying one for square ground. :)

This thread: < http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/69509.htm >

Check out photos in Posts#4 and #29

I want a conversion kit and I don't even have any square ground chain!

But those photos also show how replacing the file clamping bars on the Tecomec/Oregon guides could stiffen it up. Current 'Pro' models retails for around $40. I am sure they could sell one for $75 if it also files square ground chain.

Philbert
 
I don't know which one this is? I've had it for a while.

The models may have changed a bit through the years, but that appears to be the 'Pro' (better model). Even though it still uses plastic file clamps, and has the molded plastic top cap that the guide bar slides through, some of the advantages that the 'Pro' model has over the 'Sure Sharp':

- the pivoting head with the indexing marks (the middle casting) is made of metal instead of plastic;

- larger side clamps to grasp the chains, hold them steady, and to keep them from rising up;

- adjustable piece of flat, spring steel to position the cutter (via wing nut or thumb screw at the rear): this, in turn give you more options for the positioning of the file when sharpening.

Philbert
 
The models may have changed a bit through the years, but that appears to be the 'Pro' (better model). Even though it still uses plastic file clamps, and has the molded plastic top cap that the guide bar slides through, some of the advantages that the 'Pro' model has over the 'Sure Sharp':

- the pivoting head with the indexing marks (the middle casting) is made of metal instead of plastic;

- larger side clamps to grasp the chains, hold them steady, and to keep them from rising up;

- adjustable piece of flat, spring steel to position the cutter (via wing nut or thumb screw at the rear): this, in turn give you more options for the positioning of the file when sharpening.

Philbert
Cool. Was just curious. Thanks for the reply!
 
Some Side-By-Side Comparisons

Picked up a few of the older Grandberg type sharpeners on eBay, and two new Oregon versions. Here is what I learned, comparing them side-by-side.

- The quality of the castings and finish on the older models, both brands, definitely feels better. Although, there was still some 'flash' on the older ones I saw. The bases on the Oregon models were all painted and well finished, but the metal file frames on the old model were very similar to the old Granbergs. These guides, apparently, were never sold as high precision/highly finished products.

- There is obviouslty common parentage here, with some made by Nygran / Granberg here in the USA; and some made in Italy (by Tecomec ?) for Oregon and others. The current Oregon models are made in China. Granberg models were also sold with McCulloch and Sears Robucks labels. There are several other versions and variations out there with French and other labels. I have not seen the STIHL branded versions.

- Some earlier models (e.g. 'File-N-Guide') have a shorter base, and a small metal strip that aligns with the bar (Photo in Post #23). Later models (e.g. 'File-N-Joint') have the longer base and side clamps to help stablilze and hold down the chain when filing, which I like.

- The older models were significantly larger, which may be why sawnami could use his older model on his 1/2" cutters (Post #10). Thumb screws/wingnuts are easier to reach on the larger models: this could be a big issue for guys with thick fingers - otherwise they will have to use needle-nosed pliers to adjust them. I saw one guys' review where he suggested that the smaller format models were 'better' because they flexed less. The side-by-side photos really show the size difference.

P5173068.jpg

Granberg G104B / McCulloch 61034, and Granberg G106B

P5173073.jpg

Old Oregon, Oregon Professional/Dura Max 2376A, Oregon Sure Sharp 23820

The 'old' Granberg, Old Oregon, and Oregon Professional model are all approximately the same size. The New Granberg and the Oregon Sure Sharp are approximately the same size.

Feature differences:

- The amount of plastic varies. I think that the top cap being plastic is OK, as this helps the bar slide. Angle markings molded into the plastic caps were also easier to read. When the 'middle pieces' (Oregon Sure Sharp) is plastic, there is too much play in the guide. Comparing them side-by-side, I think that the plastic file holding frames are OK, especially on the smaller frames.

- Some models have sliding tangs to position the cutters; other have fixed tangs. The sliding tang is a nice feature.

- Earlier models had 2-piece base castings, later ones are single piece castings.

- There have been a variety of hand grips; some built-in, some use basic file handles.

Conclusions

If I had to buy one new today, I would pick the Granberg, dissassemble it, clean up all of the castings, and hope that it held up. I have seen these priced anywhere between $23 and $59 for the same model (plus shipping, sales tax, etc., as those apply).

I like the finish better on the Oregon models, but the Professional one kept slipping on me (my old one did not) and the Sure Sharp flexed too much. These are problems that could easily be solved by adding a second wing nut on the Pro model, and cast metal middle pieces on the SureSharp. They are both being returned.

It is too bad that a better quality version of these is not widely available. Again, I have not seen the STIHL, but it should not have to cost 5 to 10 times as much to make a better quality product.

Used models are available on eBay, Craig'sList , etc. I have seen used Granbergs sold between $18 and $50 with shipping.

Philbert
 
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One More Funny Thing

When I lined these things up on the bar to photograph, I set them all the same: 30 degree filing angle, 0 degree tilt. Double checked the settings.

The bars did not all line up parallel!!!

Philbert
 
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This stuff is still interesting to me anyway . . .

I realized that the hold-down feature (File-N-Joint) is important to me because I typically use these on a scrap bar clamped into a vise, with a loose chain.

I tweaked the hold-down clamps slightly, by toeing in the ends to help hold the chain rivets down at the far end, while allowing the chain to enter easily at the close end.

If you use these guides with the chain mounted in your saw, then the File-N-Guide (without the hold-down feature) might be fine, because you can increase the chain tension to help hold it down.

Philbert
 
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