Granite Mountain Hot Shot tragedy update

[northmanlogging]

Maybe.....just maybe, it's cause fire fighters don't give out tickets or bust you for drunk driving, or beating up on your spouse, or stealing from another, or committing crimes that cost us taxpayers lots of money.

But hey.......the next time you find your home broken into and you think the intruder is still in the premises, call a fire fighter.

BTW......I'm ex-military and retired LE (29 yrs.) and think of fire fighters as brothers in uniform.

I'll think of you the next time I'm thrown against the side of my house and being threatened with criminal resisting arrest... for reckless driving while standing in my driveway?
or having a gun pulled on me for scratching my eyebrow, or being pulled over for 43 in a 50, or when I do call the cops for an intruder and they don't show up for 2 hours, should I go on? Cause I can for, for days.

Oh yeah I only call 911 if there is a fire or an accident, the police won't show up or do anything anyways, the firefighters are always there.

By the way implying that I beat my wife is just low, or that I'm a thief or a drunk driver. I may not be a copper but I have never been arrested, for anything.

 

[Gologit]

I started the thread on the tragedy and kept all of you updated on it, as best I could. I felt as bad as anyone else not directly connected to the losses.

I donated more than to just one fund. I was happy to see the community and the nation respond as they did. Money came flowing in at a rate unequaled in recent past. It was obvious that the money was going to be sufficient and not come up short.

It wasn't until one widow decided that her part-time employee husband should be compensated at a rate equal to those working full-time, that I began to take notice. It wasn't just me that began to think things over further.

The bad thing is, it's just going to get worse as the widow obtains an attorney and takes the city to court. It's going to cast a cloud over the work that has taken place to insure that the families of the 19 lost have been compensated generously.

Oh and BTW.....if I were to call you names, not unlike the names you have called me, you'd ban me again.

When I think of you, the term chicken#### comes to mind. I'm thinking I hit the nail right on the head. :msp_tongue:

No, I probably wouldn't ban you . It's more fun to let you stay around. Sometimes the entertainment factor of having you here outweighs the aggravation. Sometimes.

Of course, if you ask to be banned, like you did once before in another thread, we'd be more than happy to accommodate you. That way you could devote more of your time and energy to making sure that the firefighter's widows don't take undue advantage. I think you'd be the right guy for the job.

 

[roberte]

Wow, unbelievable.

 

[KenJax Tree]

I believe he likes posting stuff that will get alot of attention and then like to sit back and watch the fallout.

 

[redprospector]

I started the thread on the tragedy and kept all of you updated on it, as best I could. I felt as bad as anyone else not directly connected to the losses.

I donated more than to just one fund. I was happy to see the community and the nation respond as they did. Money came flowing in at a rate unequaled in recent past. It was obvious that the money was going to be sufficient and not come up short.

It wasn't until one widow decided that her part-time employee husband should be compensated at a rate equal to those working full-time, that I began to take notice. It wasn't just me that began to think things over further.

The bad thing is, it's just going to get worse as the widow obtains an attorney and takes the city to court. It's going to cast a cloud over the work that has taken place to insure that the families of the 19 lost have been compensated generously.

Oh and BTW.....if I were to call you names, not unlike the names you have called me, you'd ban me again.

When I think of you, the term chicken#### comes to mind. I'm thinking I hit the nail right on the head. :msp_tongue:

Don't hurt your shoulder patting yourself on the back like that.
I'd be willing to venture that you might be on the other side of the fence if your spouse had perished with those fire fighters. But that's something that I hope we never know for sure.

Andy

 

[Gologit]

I believe he likes posting stuff that will get alot of attention and then like to sit back and watch the fallout.

Maybe so. But this time he picked the wrong bait to go trolling with.

 

[redprospector]

I may not be a copper but I have never been arrested, for anything.

My, my, my. What a sheltered life we must lead.
I was arrested once for aggravated resisting arrest. I aggravated the heck outa 3 of em before they got me arrested. :hmm3grin2orange:

Andy

 

[1Alpha1]

Like I stated, I was fine with everything.......until someone decided that she wasn't going to get enough money and wanted more.

If it had been just one or two fire fighters that perished, it might have made the news. There wouldn't have been the out pouring of support and money that has occurred presently.

It's not just me that has been concerned about what's going on. The whole local community has become divided. The only difference is, I posted about it on this forum.

The only death benefits that I had to compare it to, were my own. In no way did I say it was wrong in any way. I'm not even sure what the basic death benefits are for a wild land fire fighter. Obviously, they differ between full-time and part-time.

My concern was the fact that one person wasn't happy with her husband's employment status, and she wants it changed.

Bottom line, is that the monies received from fed. payments, donations and charities, are going to far out-weigh any survivor benefits that the state would have paid out, be it full or part-time employment.

 

[bustedup]

Original OP.......your trying to make capital outta this .......not cool..............bereaved families do not need folks jumping on bandwagons it hard enough ......in that trust me.


You sir should know better if you are ex military like you say then you should know better

 

[1Alpha1]

I'll think of you the next time I'm thrown against the side of my house and being threatened with criminal resisting arrest... for reckless driving while standing in my driveway?
or having a gun pulled on me for scratching my eyebrow, or being pulled over for 43 in a 50, or when I do call the cops for an intruder and they don't show up for 2 hours, should I go on? Cause I can for, for days.

Oh yeah I only call 911 if there is a fire or an accident, the police won't show up or do anything anyways, the firefighters are always there.

By the way implying that I beat my wife is just low, or that I'm a thief or a drunk driver. I may not be a copper but I have never been arrested, for anything.

I never implied that you were anything. I was just comparing the duties of a fire fighter to that of a police officer.

BTW.....I've never been arrested either, but I've sure put a lot of people right where they belong. :msp_wink:

 

[bustedup]

Like I stated, I was fine with everything.......until someone decided that she wasn't going to get enough money and wanted more.

If it had been just one or two fire fighters that perished, it might have made the news. There wouldn't have been the out pouring of support and money that has occurred presently.

It's not just me that has been concerned about what's going on. The whole local community has become divided. The only difference is, I posted about it on this forum.

The only death benefits that I had to compare it to, were my own. In no way did I say it was wrong in any way. I'm not even sure what the basic death benefits are for a wild land fire fighter. Obviously, they differ between full-time and part-time.

My concern was the fact that one person wasn't happy with her husband's employment status, and she wants it changed.

Bottom line, is that the monies received from fed. payments, donations and charities, are going to far out-weigh any survivor benefits that the state would have paid out, be it full or part-time employment.

Are you running for political office cause to me that is how it sounds .........again you if you do have the background you claim should know way better than to deepen divisions and stir a pot ............and it does sound that you are doing it for your own kudos .......so my advice ......................leave it you should know better

 

[1Alpha1]

Original OP.......your trying to make capital outta this .......not cool..............bereaved families do not need folks jumping on bandwagons it hard enough ......in that trust me.


You sir should know better if you are ex military like you say then you should know better

When the community steps up and does it's best to make things as financially secure as possible for those affected, and one of those effected says or does something shocking, the community has a right to respond.

And.....being in the military has nothing to do with it.

 

[slowp]

There's more to worry about than money. I just found this, and haven't watched the video, but just reading what the guy says is worrisome.
The comments explain my feelings well. Brush and buildings are not worth lives.

Granite Mountain Hotshot co-founder Darrell Willis describes 19-member crew’s last stand on Yarnell Hill | InvestigativeMEDIA

 

[northmanlogging]

My, my, my. What a sheltered life we must lead.
I was arrested once for aggravated resisting arrest. I aggravated the heck outa 3 of em before they got me arrested. :hmm3grin2orange:

Andy

There was just the one, after I informed him that the hand he didn't have pinned behind my back was resting on a .357 and that I most certainly wasn't resisting... yet... he got really nice... I didn't even know it was a cop until after I was eating the paint off my house thought it was a pissed neighbor... Only way I knew it was a cop was when I was turning to ah well aim... I saw the patch on his shoulder... did I mention it was dark.

Still got a reckless ticket out of it...

Any way, Me thinks mr retired copper is just a little jaded, and he can piss up a rope, along with the rest of the jaded or crooked cops, but that's just my opinion.

So what if one woman feels a little slighted about not receiving as much cash as everyone else, she has the right to sue, and the fire service has a right to defend, if dead guy signed a contract guess who wins and who gets made a mockery of in public.

The part that gets me is some dude comparing his possible unearnings with some other dudes earnings... Big ####ing deal, I don't even have life insurance now, am I going to be pissed if some other logger dies and his family gets $20,498,572,059. and some change, probably not, or if a doctor axes his jugular while performing a histerectomy and his/her spouse gets 34 billion, jealous yes, pissed not likely.

 

[northmanlogging]

I never implied that you were anything. I was just comparing the duties of a fire fighter to that of a police officer.

BTW.....I've never been arrested either, but I've sure put a lot of people right where they belong. :msp_wink:

There is a large percentage of prison inmates that are serving time for crimes they did not commit.

Get off your high horse buddy.

welcome to my ignore list... you'll find its very lonely in there.

 

[Steve NW WI]

Ignoring dano's apparent distaste with the situation for a moment, and just thinking about this from another line of thinking, I have a couple thoughts:

It sounds like these guys were federal employees at the time? If so, I'm gonna use a comparison between them and the military. I know that guard/reserves are considered "full time" while deployed, and receive the same benefits as active duty members they are serving with. Would/should this not be the same in this situation?

Also, to me, it matters none at all if it's a volunteer EMT or a paid full time firefighter, cop, or whatever that's hurt or killed in the line of duty, I would expect and hope that they and or their families were taken care of as well as possible. In other words, to me, it's not their employment status, but their "line of duty" status that should have a bearing on this or any other case.

I just watched the Nightline interview with the surviving member of the crew, it was a pretty sobering story.

Link here: Brendan McDonough, Sole Survivor of Arizona Hotshot Firefighting Tragedy, Speaks Out - ABC News

I feel as badly for him and his family as I do the families of those killed. That young man has a lot to deal with, and it's going to take a long time for anything close to "normal" to come back into his life.

 

[Karl Robbers]

As a Volunteer Firefighter myself, albeit in Australia, I consider the 19 fallen brothers in arms.
I believe fully that full time and part timers should be treated equally if they fall on the fire ground. They both fight the same fires, they both have families and sadly they both are as dead as each other. That's how we do it in my state fire service and the other states are very similar.
Any mean spirited low life who begrudges the widows of the fallen had better hope they never need the fire brigade themselves in my book.

 

[Jacob J.]

It sounds like these guys were federal employees at the time? If so, I'm gonna use a comparison between them and the military. I know that guard/reserves are considered "full time" while deployed, and receive the same benefits as active duty members they are serving with. Would/should this not be the same in this situation?

They were employees of the city of Prescott, not federal government employees. Granite Mountain was the first municipal hotshot crew. Hotshot crews, like Smokejumpers and Heli-Rappellers, are administered on a national level by a "steering" committee- which oversees training, performance standards, and certifications. For a program to be designated Type 1 status, there's a rigorous system of checks they have to go through. For a non-Federal program, they have to apply to be considered for Type 1 status and then demonstrate proficiencies before an inspection group. The group usually includes regional and national program managers including former Hotshot Superintendents and former Smokejumpers.

 

[1Alpha1]

There is a large percentage of prison inmates that are serving time for crimes they did not commit.

Get off your high horse buddy.

welcome to my ignore list... you'll find its very lonely in there.

Let me take a minute to school you some. Police officers don't put innocent people in prison. The court system does that. Police officers only arrest people based on information provided to them by others, or information acquired first-hand, criminal acts committed in their presence, or arrest warrants issued by a court.

In 29 yrs. of policing, not once did I arrest or hassle an innocent person. Too many criminal-minded people out and running around. No need to mess with the innocent ones.

If a person chooses to live life as a criminal, they best be prepared to be treated like one.

BTW......you're on my ignore list too. :msp_biggrin:

 

[jrcat]

Can I be on your ignore list too?