bushinspector
ArboristSite Operative
Thought I would kick the cage a little and was wondering ??? Who works harder? The dude on the ground or the dude in the bucket truck?
Groundie VS. bucket truck dude
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Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
if I'm in the bucket, the dude on the ground will work harder.........
groundie always works hardest. Hauling brush and feeding the chipper is brutal on the body. Often the groundie never gets a break, wheras the climber or bucket guy can stop for a second and drink water, eat an energy bar etc. Most companies abuse the hell out of their groundies. 
Dadatwins
Addicted to ArboristSite
They are both supposed to work as a team, the bucket operator should be cutting the brush and dropping it so the groundie can feed the chipper effeciently. A bucket operator that drops material in all directions and leaves the brush so it all has to be cut before chipping is not helping production. Very easy to hack and slash a tree to bits from the bucket but if it takes twice as long to clean up, why bother? JMHO 
bushinspector
ArboristSite Operative
Here is the score card
Groundies 3 bucket operators 0
Excellent point about working together as a team. We usually keep everything larger than 4" for firewood. Should the bucket truck dude cut them to firewood size? Or is it better for the groundie to cut it to size?
Groundies 3 bucket operators 0
Excellent point about working together as a team. We usually keep everything larger than 4" for firewood. Should the bucket truck dude cut them to firewood size? Or is it better for the groundie to cut it to size?
treesquirrel
ArboristSite Guru
As soon as I am out of the tree my groundie gets a break and I start to rake and drag brush. I always insist my groundie focus on watching me and helping me navigate a tree from his perspective and only run the chipper when I specifically instruct him it is a good time for it. This is primarily due to a focus on safety rather than just production. If he is running the chipper and draggin brush he is not keeping an eye on the in tree operation to the extent that I require.
Once I have him start and run the chipper I will halt any in tree operation that could result in any kind of accident until I can once again establish 100% of his attention.
Most companies want the jobs done so fast that my methods would be grounds for firing me. It is not profitable enough to do one or two jobs a day with methodical procedures and a focus on safety and doing it right.That is why I work for myself and a partner.
Once I have him start and run the chipper I will halt any in tree operation that could result in any kind of accident until I can once again establish 100% of his attention.
Most companies want the jobs done so fast that my methods would be grounds for firing me. It is not profitable enough to do one or two jobs a day with methodical procedures and a focus on safety and doing it right.That is why I work for myself and a partner.
bushinspector
ArboristSite Operative
Hey treesquirrl:
Very interesting that you just made the post on a small event that happened just yesterday. I was on the ground and was dragging brush and a small limb hit my shoulder. It was a small branch (1"or so) but was not paying enough attention on what the bucket dude was doing. I like your approach due to the fact that if someone was injured it would take more time and money to finish the job. I always took great pride on watching my surroundings but just got caught up in trying to get the job done. Thanks for your post.
Very interesting that you just made the post on a small event that happened just yesterday. I was on the ground and was dragging brush and a small limb hit my shoulder. It was a small branch (1"or so) but was not paying enough attention on what the bucket dude was doing. I like your approach due to the fact that if someone was injured it would take more time and money to finish the job. I always took great pride on watching my surroundings but just got caught up in trying to get the job done. Thanks for your post.
treesquirrel
ArboristSite Guru
I have two hard and fast rules.
1) When my saw is running in the tree, all eyes on me. Nobody approaches the drop zone when the saw is on.
2) If the chipper is running I cease all cutting until voice communications is re-established. I would use this time to do some rope rigging or relocation in the tree but nothing else. In rare instances where I have two groundies then I'd make exception on number 2 with one groundie focused on me for signal communications with the chipping being done exclusively by another person.
I cringe at some of the stories I have listened to from customers that have had previous experiences with unsafe outfits.
Climb020
ArboristSite Operative
Think it has more to do with the operater and the job. If it's a TD most likely the ground guy will work harder. If you are just doing dead wood and you cannot just jump out of the bucket and climb on up and have to mess with a pole saw all day then the bucket guy will work harder.
bushinspector
ArboristSite Operative
I am surprised that a bucket dude can even run a pole saw!! Just kidding, In our operation I don't think we have even have had a pole saw in the bucket during the last 12 months.
Rftreeman
Addicted to ArboristSite
I was just kidding here, wait, not really, when I was learning and first started the guys I worked under gave me hell and would always tell me "when you make foreman then you can do it your way and we don't drag or chip brush" and they didn't that was just the rule, you had too earn your spot on the top, that has stuck with me and when I was working full time and got a "know it all" smart butt snot nosed kid I would work the hell out of him, either make them or break them, I broke many and made many in my 18 years but most of the time I would get a good kid that wanted too learn and I when I saw that he wanted too learn and worked good I would take the extra time and teach them, to me there is no better feeling than standing on the ground watching that kid you trained doing it just as he was taught and doing it right.
what the hell does this have to do with this thread? I don't know but it felt right..........lol
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ropensaddle
Feel Lucky
Groundies got it made on my crew they work ropes
and stack in a pile as being lowered as I will then grab
the whole pile with grapple and work is over. I would
say chipping is outdated on my crew but very rarely I still
chip. When a bucket operator gets out of bucket and climbs
he works harder than any ground work. Difficult climbing isnt
easy especially blocking down chunks when I climb a difficult
tree my groundy had better be ready to get er done. After
saying that, a real good groundman is valuable but the best
groundy is a seasoned climber as he knows what is needed
to assist man in tree , when to let er run ,when to get rope
or gear ready , and how to rescue me if needed anything else
is usually a high paid laborer. I have little patience for a whiny
groundie as I have been where he is at and when was there did
the job!!!!!
and stack in a pile as being lowered as I will then grab
the whole pile with grapple and work is over. I would
say chipping is outdated on my crew but very rarely I still
chip. When a bucket operator gets out of bucket and climbs
he works harder than any ground work. Difficult climbing isnt
easy especially blocking down chunks when I climb a difficult
tree my groundy had better be ready to get er done. After
saying that, a real good groundman is valuable but the best
groundy is a seasoned climber as he knows what is needed
to assist man in tree , when to let er run ,when to get rope
or gear ready , and how to rescue me if needed anything else
is usually a high paid laborer. I have little patience for a whiny
groundie as I have been where he is at and when was there did
the job!!!!!
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Anyone who has done production based work knows that in my line of work Bucket foremen have it worse. Now, to explain why, you have to look at the way things are done when trying to get as many spans as possible without killing yourself, someone else, or putting the power out.(outages cost the company money). I would say the amount of physical labor is likely skewed in favor of groundmen doing more. But, as I have told my guys; when I was a groundie I used to look up and say " he has it easy, just swing the whiz saw around. I do all the real work." How wrong I was! some days I would love to be back on the ground. No worrying about how many spans we got for the day, whether I got all my paperwork in correctly so my guys and I will get paid on time, if the next branch I cut is going to bounce the lines enough for them to slap together(some of the lines up here are VERY slack) and put the power out. The Mental stress of this job is WAY worse than being sore at the end of the day; and trust me, I'm sore too! I do have to give it up to the groundmen that can keep up, that have your bucket saw fueled and oiled BEFORE you ask for it, don't have to be told to put the whiz saw up in the morning, or take it down at the end of the day. Matter of fact, after work tomorrow, I'm gonna buy my groundman a beer, and thank him. good thread.
beowulf343
Addicted to ArboristSite
Ah-you bucket crews are a bunch of pansies. The groundies on a climbing crew are some of the hardest working mofo's out there. Bucket groundies have to drag brush how far and over how many fences?
Whoops, sorry about the hijack-thought this was becoming a groundie appreciation thread.
The groundies on a climbing crew are some of the hardest working mofo's out there. Bucket groundies have to drag brush how far and over how many fences? Whoops, sorry about the hijack-thought this was becoming a groundie appreciation thread.
DonnyO
ArboristSite Operative
In my experience it is usually a bucket operator/climber and a ground guy, usually a new guy. My problem with this set up is Who's going to do the aerial rescue? Climbers make the best ground guys IMHO. The rest of y'all are just wanna be's
