Hand filing square

[w8ye]

Chisel has a sharp square corner on the outside of the side and top plates.

Semi chisel has a rounded corner

Semi holds up better in dirty conditins

 

[galde]

Can anyone comment on the Atop square filing guide sold by Bailey's? It looks like it should be a good aid in square filing, but the $200 price tag gives me pause.

 

[Philbert]

Have a question. Whats the different between round chisel and semi chisel?

Here's an illustration from the 'Carlton Complete Book of Saw Chain':

The first of the 'modern' chainsaw chains was called 'chipper chain' - it looks like a question mark (top illustration). It is slow by today's standard, but keeps cutting in dirty wood. Mostly used only on mechanical harvesters today.

'Chisel chain' has flat top and side edges, and a sharp point where they meet (bottom illustration) - looks like the number '7'. It cuts faster in clean wood, but dulls quicker in dirty wood.

'Semi-Chisel chain' (middle illustration) is a compromise between these two, and what works best for most, general chainsaw users IMHO. Flat top and side plates, but smaller, rounded corner.

Chisel chain (aka 'full-chisel chain') can be filed (or ground) with a round file, providing a hollow grind, or filed (or ground) with a flat file, producing sharp, flat, 'chisel' edges. The flat, or 'square-ground' chisel chain is generally recognized to cut fastest, although, it requires a special grinder, or special files and skill to sharpen correctly.

So, 3 different cutter shapes, plus 2 ways to file one of them. The focus of this thread.

Philbert

 

[w8ye]

The Atop allows a nice job with a file

 

[galde]

I am trying to get the picture in my mind of using the flat chisel file ( rectangular cross section -- 90 degree interior angles at the corners) versus the triangular (actually six sided, with 60 degree interior angles at the corners). Won't the cut on the inside of the side plate will differ by 30 degrees? Do you make another pass on the side plate only to take off the additional 30 degrees? Great close-up of the Atop!!! For $200 I would expect something that wouldn't lock me into a racing tooth only.

 

[Itsme7]

Thanks Philbert, crystal clear now!

 

[Philbert]

One hot day at Saw Camp.....they made me file my own racechain.

Dennis,

I copied your photos to this thread:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/120500.htm

because I think people looking for vise ideas would like to see them.

Philbert

 

[galde]

The Bailey's catalog works better for me than my old computer's crappy graphics. I can see from the catalog that the double beveled chisel file will make the same cut as my Save Edge 3 corner chisel files. I mistook the files in the pics for bastards. I read that some use the goofy file for square filing, but that would appear to require additional filing to get the side plate shaped properly.

 

[Philbert]

Here is another classic thread to link here:

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/69509.htm

Less expensive than the other options mentioned (aside from free-hand filing) if you can make it work.

Philbert

 

[hillwilliam]

There's been some good info. and photos posted on this thread!

Also the Madsen's link is good - hadn't seen it before.

To try to answer one of the OP's original questions about just starting with a goofy file: I don't know. I've taught a number of people to chisel file, and I'll start teaching another buddy soon. I just got him a loop of chisel-ground chain and an 8" goofy file. The big goofy looks good, and it may be a good way to go. I have only ever used goofy files on racing chains and old, worn-back chains, but I've been threatening to go all-goofy (goofier than I already am) for a while, since I'm not wild about any of the double-bevel files available now. (See the 'Best Brand of File' thread.)

Here are some of my suggestions for learning Chizzy:

1. Do your gullets per mdavlee. I hog mine out WAY before they get to 1/8". Leaving a little shelf is something to kinda guide your file, but it seems to make filing more difficult and it dulls the point of the file. I remember a thread a while ago where someone got his panties in a pinch when I said that I just hawg 'em out with whatever is handy, usually a 7/32". Somehow it was a big deal that I didn't routinely use a 13/64" or some such. I've even done gullets on a race chain with a chizzy file, though I doubt it made a difference.

2. Plan on cutting into the tie straps a bit when filing the cutter. It's ok.

3. You've likely already figured out that you'll be filing out-to-in.

4. When I first started, I couldn't find a reasonable way to do the left-hand cutters with my right hand. I MADE myself do them left-handed, and soon I was at least as good with my wrong hand. Worked for me.

5. Stick a wedge or something between the bar and chain on the bottom of the bar to hold the chain TIGHT.

6. After several filings, I make sure my teeth are the same size. Calipers work well, but I prefer a double-nutted bolt. I use a brass one.

7. Figure out what height works best for your saw or chain vise. I like to be looking mostly down, at an angle, at the top plate. The tailgate of my big Dodge is higher than I like, and a stump works better for me.

8. My top plate angle is much less than factory. I go about 10 deg. and still get adequate kerf, and my chains are very fast. Stringier-fibered woods will likely require more like the factory angle.

9. Take note of the stuff already stated by others about beaks.

10. I still say chisel filing is like learning a new language; you may be very fluent in English or round filing, pero esto es una cosa muy diferente.

It's difficult at first but, after chizzy filing for more than three decades, I ain't ever going back to round.

 

[mortenh]

Save-edge files

I can highly recommend Save-Edge files for square chisel filing. They are made for that very purpose, are agressive (fewer strokes required, compared to other files), and stay that way for a LONG time.

Look at "Chisel Bit Files" section on Save Edge | Chainsaw Files & Accessories

 

[Philbert]

. . Calipers work well, but I prefer a double-nutted bolt. I use a brass one. . . .

So, are you saying that it takes brass nuts to work with this type of chain?

Philbert

 

[hillwilliam]

So, are you saying that it takes brass nuts to work with this type of chain?

Philbert

I was careful not to say, 'I use a double-nutted bolt, and I have a big brass one.' Don't want to get into trouble, you know.

 

[hillwilliam]

I can highly recommend Save-Edge files for square chisel filing. They are made for that very purpose, are agressive (fewer strokes required, compared to other files), and stay that way for a LONG time.

Look at "Chisel Bit Files" section on Save Edge | Chainsaw Files & Accessories

I'm using Save-Edge double-bevel files currently. I just got a Save-Edge 8" goofy - it looks very good - and may use it to begin teaching a friend to chizzy file.

 

[Philbert]

I was careful not to say, 'I use a double-nutted bolt, and I have a big brass one.' Don't want to get into trouble, you know.

So, this is just a plain, boring, bolt, with a couple of nuts (except that it is brass)? And you use it like a micrometer by rotating one nut, then holding it in place?
Sounds like a simple alternative to a 'redneck micrometer' (a.k.a. 'Crescent wrench').

The big goofy looks good, and it may be a good way to go. I have only ever used goofy files on racing chains and old, worn-back chains, but I've been threatening to go all-goofy (goofier than I already am) for a while, since I'm not wild about any of the double-bevel files available now.

I apologize if I am being dense on this, but does a goofy file give you a curved edge on the side plate? Do the teeth on the sides touch the side cutting edge at the same time or do you rotate the file to sharpen each edge separately? It's hard for someone who has never done this to see how you get that sharp corner profile with this type of file - the other styles of files each have sharp corners and appear to touch both edges at the same time.

I sure that it helps to watch someone do this.

Thanks.

Philbert

 

[SPDRMNKY]

first attempt (tonight) at square filing with a triangular file...EPIC FAIL.

first tooth was beautiful...then the beaks started, and just got worse...seemed like the file corner was gone after a few strokes?

shoulda been in here reading this thread I guess...

I'll try again in a month (the chain is now round ground)

cheers!

 

[WKEND LUMBERJAK]

Here is a thread that has a lot of information and discussion on sqaure filing.

http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/141414.htm

 

[hillwilliam]

first attempt (tonight) at square filing with a triangular file...EPIC FAIL.

first tooth was beautiful...then the beaks started, and just got worse...seemed like the file corner was gone after a few strokes?

shoulda been in here reading this thread I guess...

I'll try again in a month (the chain is now round ground)

cheers!

I tried one of those files when I first started. Once. I went right to double-bevel, and sometimes goofy, and never went back. I could probably get one of the so-called three-cornered files to work for me now, but I'm not gonna bother to try.

Try again with a different kind of file. You can do it!

 

[hillwilliam]

The goofy file will give you a little bit of hook on the side plate like a round file almost. You sharpen the top plate and the side at the same time. The corner of the file is in the corner of the tooth. The top plate angle is preference but the side plate should be less than 5° forward lean.

Yup. That's explained better than I would have done.

And yes to the good old 'redneck micrometer'.

 

[bootboy]

There's a bit of a muscle memory component to it. I struggled at first but noticed that the next time I tried it, I was better, my muscles had developed some memory. Now all I have to do is sit down, check my angles, and file away only watching the corner. You can tell when the tooth is sharp just by the way the file feels when cutting. The corner is the most important thing to watch. Your body learns the angles, your eyes learn the corner. I can get through a dull 20" full comp chain in about 15 minutes.