30 Years of Not Using the Sharpening File Correctly - Doh

[Del_]

Del:

Tell me how you FILE DOWN the chain rakers with the round file in that that Oregon file guide that I mentioned????

I have the Pferd file holder and all you do is not push the round file into the cutter. The flat file is way wide enough to still catch the raker.

I've never held the Oregon file holder.

My Pferds only hold one round file and on flat file so what I'm saying is quite easy to do. I don't see the necessity of the holders that hold two round files. Looks a bit more bulky and heavy compared to the Pferds I have.

From the photo of the Oregon I just looked at on the internet it looks like the Oregon is designed more for consumer appeal than it does professional use.

 

[Del_]

You would be surprised at how many professional loggers never take down the rakers. When the saw starts throwing powder after file sharpening, they pitch the chain. One of my logger buddies wiy 25 years experience is guilty of this, so I told him to keep those chains for me. Trouble is, he sharpens the cutters on one side far more than the other. Salvaging his chains is thus a first class PITA.

I would have to say the 'professional loggers' that you are talking about are only professional because they get paid to do a job.

......and not because they know what they are doing with a file, a chain or a chainsaw.

Lucky you to get their discarded chains!

I'm met people like you are mentioned and they usually run a chain way past needing sharpening and than more then the teeth are damaged and overheated. I hope that's not the case you are dealing with.

 

[Okie]

Del: This is the sentence's you wrote that I was referring to.

If the rakers are too high when each tooth is started do not contact the the tooth but instead file down the raker first using the guide.
AND
But where I disagree is saying that they are useless if the rakers are too high to begin with.
I see where you wrote this as I was typing this post.
From the photo of the Oregon I just looked at on the internet it looks like the Oregon is designed more for consumer appeal than it does professional use.
Agree and well said.

I thought you were referring to filing down the rakers FIRST by using the Oregon guide that I mentioned.
appears that maybe we are saying the same thing but in a different way.

What I was trying to indicate is that I've seen newbies (or anyone not familiar with the OREGON file guides limitations) unaware that when using the Oregon type file guide it will not sharpen a chain correctly if the rakers are not filed down to specs FIRST. It will actually make the tooth duller as the tooth wears back or is filed back.

I have witnessed guys try to sharpen a chain that has about a 50% tooth with those type guides when the rakers have never been filed down, they then try the chain and it won't cut correctly and then just keep on trying to sharpen again and again using the guide and the further back the tooth is filed the duller the chain becomes unaware that the guide is riding on top of the raker and holding the file to high on the tooth.
They install and new chain and they are back in business and their Oregon guide is good for use with the new chain for awhile and then Murphy strikes again as the tooth wears back from filing with their Oregon guide.

The rakers are not even casually mentioned in any instructions on the guide's card as a possible problem when using that type chain guide. Only the filing angle's are mentioned as marked on the guide for different types of wood.


.

 

[Okie]

I also have a big pile of chains that couple guys (cattle ranchers) gave me that cutters are at about 50% because they could not get them to cut GOOD AFTER they paid for sharpening at a saw shop, so they just bought new chains from the same shop. The majority of their chains were being ruined clearing out fence rows which is a rough life for a new chain.

I never mentioned what was happening with their chains as long as they were giving me their supposedly bad worn out chains and they did not care anything about learning how to sharpen their own chains anyway.
.

 

[link]

they could not get them to cut GOOD AFTER they paid for sharpening at a saw shop, so they just bought new chains from the same shop

Someone do know how to make a business...

 

[Del_]

Del: This is the sentence's you wrote that I was referring to.

If the rakers are too high when each tooth is started do not contact the the tooth but instead file down the raker first using the guide.
AND
But where I disagree is saying that they are useless if the rakers are too high to begin with.
I see where you wrote this as I was typing this post.
From the photo of the Oregon I just looked at on the internet it looks like the Oregon is designed more for consumer appeal than it does professional use.
Agree and well said.

I thought you were referring to filing down the rakers FIRST by using the Oregon guide that I mentioned.
appears that maybe we are saying the same thing but in a different way.

What I was trying to indicate is that I've seen newbies (or anyone not familiar with the OREGON file guides limitations) unaware that when using the Oregon type file guide it will not sharpen a chain correctly if the rakers are not filed down to specs FIRST. It will actually make the tooth duller as the tooth wears back or is filed back.

I have witnessed guys try to sharpen a chain that has about a 50% tooth with those type guides when the rakers have never been filed down, they then try the chain and it won't cut correctly and then just keep on trying to sharpen again and again using the guide and the further back the tooth is filed the duller the chain becomes unaware that the guide is riding on top of the raker and holding the file to high on the tooth.
They install and new chain and they are back in business and their Oregon guide is good for use with the new chain for awhile and then Murphy strikes again as the tooth wears back from filing with their Oregon guide.

The rakers are not even casually mentioned in any instructions on the guide's card as a possible problem when using that type chain guide. Only the filing angle's are mentioned as marked on the guide for different types of wood.


.

I'm talking about taking down excessively high rakers with the Pferd file guide while both the flat and round file are in the holder. I'd done it hundreds of times. Then using the guide to further reduce the rakers sharping the tooth at the same time.

If the users don't have a feel for what they are doing then there is almost always to be bad results.

The Pferd file guides that I have make it easy to reduce the raker without contacting the tooth at all.

I don't like the looks of the Oregon guide or the similar Pferd guides.

 

[ericm979]

The flat Oregon guide works pretty well for me. I learned to freehand file when I was running saws all day for work and that's what I have done for 35 years of personal use. The Oregon guide does a good job of holding the file in the right position. I've tried the Granberg guides and the Stihl copy and hated both of them. With the Oregon guide the rakers need to be the correct height, but I keep mine filed properly so it's not an issue for me.

 

[sean donato]

I'm talking about taking down excessively high rakers with the Pferd file guide while both the flat and round file are in the holder. I'd done it hundreds of times. Then using the guide to further reduce the rakers sharping the tooth at the same time.

If the users don't have a feel for what they are doing then there is almost always to be bad results.

The Pferd file guides that I have make it easy to reduce the raker without contacting the tooth at all.

I don't like the looks of the Oregon guide or the similar Pferd guides.

How about a picture or link about what your talking about? As far as I'm concerned those oregon/stihl/pferd 2 in 1 file guides are junk, if I'm understanding you pferd made a different style that does/did work?

 

[Del_]

How about a picture or link about what your talking about? As far as I'm concerned those oregon/stihl/pferd 2 in 1 file guides are junk, if I'm understanding you pferd made a different style that does/did work?

Mine are the single round file and flat file combination. If you've been around a while you've seen them. They are not the best but they are not junk, especially for those starting out.

I rarely use them instead I free hand file and for depth gauges use a short flat edge and a feeler gauge. I've always felt that the Pferd guides take down the rakers a bit much. I do sometimes measure tooth length with a caliper or small adjustable wrench to keep tooth lengths similar.

 

[lukebuz]

I will admit my chain sharpening technique was poor too. I had the correct 25 to 30° cross angle, but I didn't understand the 10° drop angle. Once I realized what I was doing wrong, my chains that produced mostly large sawdust instantly started making chips. Hallelujah!

 

[sean donato]

The one with the screw driver style handle on the one end?

 

[sean donato]

I will admit my chain sharpening technique was poor too. I had the correct 25 to 30° cross angle, but I didn't understand the 10° drop angle. Once I realized what I was doing wrong, my chains that produced mostly large sawdust instantly started making chips. Hallelujah!

The 10* down shouldn't majorly effect cutting, and can arguably just be forgotten about. It's an oregon chain thing. No I don't do it anymore.

 

[MMG]

Yeah then my grandfather and great grandfather joined in the torment. But guess when you get 3 generations of cutters together that happens.

You are a blessed Man. To have three generations of knowledge giving you a hard time. And they were all in your life to do it. It says something about your family.

 

[Mafun464]

You are a blessed Man. To have three generations of knowledge giving you a hard time. And they were all in your life to do it. It says something about your family.

Favorite memories are with those 3 men. Definitely learned a lot about life and working from them. Definitely argued saws a few time though.

 

[Del_]

The one with the screw driver style handle on the one end?

Yes.

 

[JimR]

I have three Stihls for firewood and trimming trees which I have usually sharpened with a file over the years. Except the results were average, never actually sharp, but the Stihl shop said that was normal for casual users.

Last night I watched a video about sharpening and suddenly realised I had been pushing the file in the wrong direction. Holding the pointed end with my right hand to keep the fingers off the file and pushing it forward...so instead of cutting, the file edges were being flattened. Dang!! No wonder the files went flat so quickly.

The second thing I learned is not to file back and forth: single strokes only in one direction but I'd never been told that.

Feeling really foolish rght now and laughing. Better late than never.

Don't feel bad, I know a mechanical engineer that didnt know how to use a file.

 

[Okie]

Don't feel bad, I know a mechanical engineer that didnt know how to use a file.

I know that guy.

He has the paper to show that he is a engineer.

Just having that paper document is what makes him an engineer.

If he makes a mistake he issues a ECO. (Engineering Change Order)

I think he is currently designing Electric Vehicles for Joe.

 

[JimR]

I know that guy.

He has the paper to show that he is a engineer.

Just having that paper document is what makes him an engineer.

If he makes a mistake he issues a ECO. (Engineering Change Order)

I think he is currently designing Electric Vehicles for Joe.

Actually this guy is a really smart man. He started a multi million dollar company that makes high grade ceramics for many industries including Government projects. He just didn't know the proper way to use a file. He thought it worked in both directions. I also had a mechanical engineer tell me that mig welding doesn't join metal. He said it lays a layer of weld over the existing metal. He had a project that he wanted me to do for him. When I told hi. I was using a mig welder he no longer needed my services. I told him that since I had been doing this for 20 years and obviously didn't know what I was doing that I really didn't need him as a customer and that he needed to find somebody else to do the work for him. I hung up the phone before he could reply.

 

[Ballroomblitz]

Lucky these days we have lots of references such as this forum and other sources like youtube to get a visual reference. We do need to check the source to ensure they have enough knowledge, with asking a few questions however we can usually find the good sites. I also recommend researching multiple resources, you get a better understanding and can then ask nuanced questions about the finer details and experience.

I am very new to chainsaws as i always wanted one and just came across something that works for me. So learning all about bars, chains, and all the details so i may become much more knowledgeable.

For sharpening chains i sticking to the rule of having the file point away from the motor, file cuts in one direction only, and keep the angle consistent such as 30 degrees. The for the opposite side of the chain cutting teeth again same procedure but from the other side. If you file in the wrong direction you should get a chatter.

I found this to be a fairly good video, has a few video's to get accustomed.



Anyhow it's great to be learning a lot of useful information here, i take information from a lot of sources so i understand the principles then ask questions or seek out the most informative people to ask as i finetune the information to my specific needs.

Great having a wonderful resource....cheers.

 

[sean donato]

Yes.

Never used one, just the newer style. Didn't care for them.