Having trouble cutting pine trees

[Mustangous]

Hello, I am a new to tree felling and have been very carefull and taking my time cutting some trees in my yard. I have been cutting down a lot of Locust trees. I been reading around and trying to be on top of my about maintanance of my craftsman 18" saw. At the end of the day i always clean up and take about 3 or 4 swips of the file on each tooth of the chain. I just put a new chain on it and have a bout a half a days use on it. I have no problems with the locust tree, but when it comes to the pine, I have a very hard time cutting through it. Its seems like it is swelling up or something. I can cut around the edges but the center of it it seems like the chain just spins and not making contact. The chain gets hot too. Also seems like it doenst cut straight either, maybe because its not cutting so i add pressure to it and i am tweaking it causing the curved cut. It seems like the sap is cloggin it up or something. Any advise of what i am doing wrong?

Thanks in advance
Troy

 

[Metals406]

Hello, I am a new to tree felling and have been very carefull and taking my time cutting some trees in my yard. I have been cutting down a lot of Locust trees. I been reading around and trying to be on top of my about maintanance of my craftsman 18" saw. At the end of the day i always clean up and take about 3 or 4 swips of the file on each tooth of the chain. I just put a new chain on it and have a bout a half a days use on it. I have no problems with the locust tree, but when it comes to the pine, I have a very hard time cutting through it. Its seems like it is swelling up or something. I can cut around the edges but the center of it it seems like the chain just spins and not making contact. The chain gets hot too. Also seems like it doenst cut straight either, maybe because its not cutting so i add pressure to it and i am tweaking it causing the curved cut. It seems like the sap is cloggin it up or something. Any advise of what i am doing wrong?

Thanks in advance
Troy

Troy... It sounds like you either have a bar problem, or you aren't filing the saw right. Post up a few good pictures of your chain.

 

[Mustangous]

Troy... It sounds like you either have a bar problem, or you aren't filing the saw right. Post up a few good pictures of your chain.

The file I use has the metal guide with the 30 degree mark on it. Also I'll clean it up and resharpen then I will have no problems with a locust tree. Blasts right through. Is it possible the chain (s62) is not wide enough?(probably stupid question). I flip the bar upside down every once and awhile. I will take a pic when I get a chance. Evertime I cut a pine, only twice so far, I have problems and smoke the chain and burn the bar. The sap clogged my oiler both times I cut a pine.

Thanks for the reply

 

[Metals406]

The file I use has the metal guide with the 30 degree mark on it. Also I'll clean it up and resharpen then I will have no problems with a locust tree. Blasts right through. Is it possible the chain (s62) is not wide enough?(probably stupid question). I flip the bar upside down every once and awhile. I will take a pic when I get a chance. Evertime I cut a pine, only twice so far, I have problems and smoke the chain and burn the bar. The sap clogged my oiler both times I cut a pine.

Thanks for the reply

Troy--all we have in NW Montana for wood is Pine, Fir, Hemlock, and Cedar. I have never experienced problems like you describe because of species, or resin/pitch.

Check and make sure the bar gauge and chain gauge match. Burning up a bar is a sign of lack of oil, which makes the oil pump, bar length for said pump, or dirty orifice suspect.

Cutting crooked is a sign of a poorly sharpened chain, bar groove problems, bent guide bar, mismatched chain/bar, etc. Pine is soft, and unless the trees you cut were full of an abrasive contaminant, you should have easily been able to drop, limb, and buck both tree's in one sharpening.

 

[Mustangous]

Troy--all we have in NW Montana for wood is Pine, Fir, Hemlock, and Cedar. I have never experienced problems like you describe because of species, or resin/pitch.

Check and make sure the bar gauge and chain gauge match. Burning up a bar is a sign of lack of oil, which makes the oil pump, bar length for said pump, or dirty orifice suspect.

Cutting crooked is a sign of a poorly sharpened chain, bar groove problems, bent guide bar, mismatched chain/bar, etc. Pine is soft, and unless the trees you cut were full of an abrasive contaminant, you should have easily been able to drop, limb, and buck both tree's in one sharpening.

I think the reason i am burning up the bar is because the sap quickly cloggs up the oiler area and it doesnt oil and i dont know it till i see smoke. Never happened with locust or oak.

I am not sure what the bar gauge is, how do i tell? The chain and bar was original till i just changed the chain, S62 oregon from homo depot. I really dont have a lot of hours on this. I have 2 of the same saws
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07135088000P?keyword=35088&sLevel=0
and i alternate them as needed. The had the saw saw a year ago and it was giving me the same problem with my first pine. So i thought something was wrong with the saw and exchanged it with a new one. Bought another one a month later to alternate and have a backup. Since i have been cutting locust and oak and been very happy with both of them, until this pine the other day(first one since the beginning). It has me very confused why? thats why i decided to post it here.
will post pics as soon as i get a chance.

 

[Metals406]

I think the reason i am burning up the bar is because the sap quickly cloggs up the oiler area and it doesnt oil and i dont know it till i see smoke. Never happened with locust or oak.

I am not sure what the bar gauge is, how do i tell? The chain and bar was original till i just changed the chain, S62 oregon from homo depot. I really dont have a lot of hours on this. I have 2 of the same saws
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07135088000P?keyword=35088&sLevel=0
and i alternate them as needed. The had the saw saw a year ago and it was giving me the same problem with my first pine. So i thought something was wrong with the saw and exchanged it with a new one. Bought another one a month later to alternate and have a backup. Since i have been cutting locust and oak and been very happy with both of them, until this pine the other day(first one since the beginning). It has me very confused why? thats why i decided to post it here.
will post pics as soon as i get a chance.

The bar should be stamped with pitch and gauge up by the bar mount... The package you bought your chain in should also be marked with pitch and gauge. The numbers have to match each other.

Being a Craftsman, I have a hunch it's not the greatest oiler in the world... Probably plastic, and the gear may be worn? You can thin your bar oil with ATF, it has detergents in it that help break down pitch/resin. I mix 1 quart of ATF to 1 gallon of bar oil... So, that may take car of the pitch problem... But it still doesn't explain the chainsaw cutting crescents. For that, We'll wait and see how you're sharpening the chain.

 

[Tree Pig]

I may have missed it in your post but are you maintaining your depth gauge... filing your rakers too?

 

[randyg]

Smokin ?

You cut locust and oak and doin great. You sharpen and flip bar, then head for the pine and it smokes? Little hole in bar for oil to enter groove plugged, so not oiling properly, and you blame it on pitch. You sharpen clean and flip bar and go to cutting oak and locust again and cuts great? Every time you flip bar, or even have it off, you need to clean groove and hole for oil to go from saw to groove. Should not plug while cutting, but bottom oil hole will always plug so when you flip bar, then have problem. Did I explain that five times yet?

Hope this helps.

randy

 

[Wolfcsm]

Would this be a dead pine? The bottom of dead pines is where the pitch collects and hardens. It is very hard to get through. Experienced this in Georgia, cutting pine. Went slower, less presure on the saw and took it out of the cut often to cool down. WD40 sprayed on the chain can help as well as more lub from the saw or an outside source,

Hal

 

[Mustangous]

The bar should be stamped with pitch and gauge up by the bar mount... The package you bought your chain in should also be marked with pitch and gauge. The numbers have to match each other.

Being a Craftsman, I have a hunch it's not the greatest oiler in the world... Probably plastic, and the gear may be worn? You can thin your bar oil with ATF, it has detergents in it that help break down pitch/resin. I mix 1 quart of ATF to 1 gallon of bar oil... So, that may take car of the pitch problem... But it still doesn't explain the chainsaw cutting crescents. For that, We'll wait and see how you're sharpening the chain.

The oiler i think is just a pressurized system. here is the chain i just put on....
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_07103619000P?vName=&cName=&sName=&mv=rp

I may have missed it in your post but are you maintaining your depth gauge... filing your rakers too?

I am only filing the angled teeth(dont know the name ).

You cut locust and oak and doin great. You sharpen and flip bar, then head for the pine and it smokes? Little hole in bar for oil to enter groove plugged, so not oiling properly, and you blame it on pitch. You sharpen clean and flip bar and go to cutting oak and locust again and cuts great? Every time you flip bar, or even have it off, you need to clean groove and hole for oil to go from saw to groove. Should not plug while cutting, but bottom oil hole will always plug so when you flip bar, then have problem. Did I explain that five times yet?

Hope this helps.

randy

I dont have the problem til i hit the pine. Here exactly what happened the other day. I cut 3 locust down then a pine, than an oak. after i knocked the pine down i cut all the branches off. Went to cut it in 18" sections I had problems with 5" or more in diameter. Then i cut the oak down i had the same problem. I brought out my other saw and finished up the oak and not the pine.

When i clean up my saws after use i blow compressed air through the bar groove and make sure the tip of the bar's wheel/gear (whats that called?) spins effortless. I didnt know of oil holes in the bar. I will have to check it out.

Would this be a dead pine? The bottom of dead pines is where the pitch collects and hardens. It is very hard to get through. Experienced this in Georgia, cutting pine. Went slower, less presure on the saw and took it out of the cut often to cool down. WD40 sprayed on the chain can help as well as more lub from the saw or an outside source,

Hal

not a dead pine, but seems like the same senerio though. I tried the wd-40 trick, but i should of let it cool down.

Another thing is this a cheap craftsman saw, not a husky or stihl, so i didnt think it would make a difference but, i am starting to see a few diffrence. I like the idea of a gear drived oil pump. The way my system works is through pressure some how. pressure builds up and pushed out the oiler and looks like it just drips on the bar. I didnt know there was supposed to be a little hole in the bar though for oil. I will have to check that out the next time i clean it, which will be today. i have more to cut. :greenchainsaw:

 

[Mustangous]

wasnt sure what pictures to take so hope these work..
here is one more...

 

[motoroilmccall]

First off... That's safety chain, I wouldn't use that if it was all I had left. Second, the tooth of the saw is what you are filing. The nub that's in front of it is called the Raker. You'll need a flat file to file that down (just a few thousandths). The chain doesn't look dull. But, it sounds like you're sharpening it too often. Filing chain is not something you can just pick up and be good at, it takes a lot of practice.

If I were you, I'd take your new chain, and your old chain, to a hardware store or chainsaw dealer (not Sears or Lowes, a real dealer). They'll professionally grind your chain for around $5 per loop. Those chains should last you a long time, as in, half a day of sawing each for what you're doing (so if you're just felling, limbing, and bucking a tree or two, it should last you a few weekends of that). Don't touch them up yourself, and don't flip your bar, its unnecessary for what you're doing.

Biggest thing is, keep the chain, and the tip, OUT OF THE DIRT. As soon as that chain hits the dirt, its dulling.

 

[Metals406]

I'll agree, and say that safety chain you have is worthless. You need a bar and chain combination that is 3/8" pitch, .050 or .058 gauge chain... Semi chisel is fine I guess (which is what your tooth is), but I'd recommend full chisel.

Here are a couple things on your chain pics... Hope it helps some.

 

[Mustangous]

I'll agree, and say that safety chain you have is worthless. You need a bar and chain combination that is 3/8" pitch, .050 or .058 gauge chain... Semi chisel is fine I guess (which is what your tooth is), but I'd recommend full chisel.

Here are a couple things on your chain pics... Hope it helps some.

Thanks guys, So what is exactly safety chain. I tried to google, but it comes up with using your chainsaw safely. Is it those tabs in between the teeth? I tried the saw and it didnt do any better yesterday. I am thinking because it got so hot that maybe the teeth bent or warped just slightly out of position and now its no good. But any way I went to lowes yesterday and bought an oregon bar and chain that is made for this saw. Cut great now, but i am still very interested in a better setup as you mentioned..

Thanks for all the help!

 

[ntsarborist]

personnally my input on safety chains, dont like them, slows down wood cutting. they are just to reduce kickback. if you dont have to much experience dealing with saws or kickback then use a safety chain.

 

[Metals406]

Thanks guys, So what is exactly safety chain. I tried to google, but it comes up with using your chainsaw safely. Is it those tabs in between the teeth? I tried the saw and it didnt do any better yesterday. I am thinking because it got so hot that maybe the teeth bent or warped just slightly out of position and now its no good. But any way I went to lowes yesterday and bought an oregon bar and chain that is made for this saw. Cut great now, but i am still very interested in a better setup as you mentioned..

Thanks for all the help!

Yes, the blade shaped things in between the teeth and depth gauges (raker's) makes that a safety chain. Helps with kickback, other than that it's crappy.

See if these quick drawings help?

 

[Tree Pig]

Thanks guys, So what is exactly safety chain. I tried to google, but it comes up with using your chainsaw safely. Is it those tabs in between the teeth? I tried the saw and it didnt do any better yesterday. I am thinking because it got so hot that maybe the teeth bent or warped just slightly out of position and now its no good. But any way I went to lowes yesterday and bought an oregon bar and chain that is made for this saw. Cut great now, but i am still very interested in a better setup as you mentioned..

Thanks for all the help!

Safety chain is designed to limit kickback. It limits the bite the chain can take out of the wood. Your chain is worse case scenario because of the bumper in between. My first guess when you described the problem was improper filing.

I may have missed it in your post but are you maintaining your depth gauge... filing your rakers too?

But I didnt consider the low kickback chain but that explains a lot. Basically due to raker height and the height of that bumper you now have no cutting surface getting to the wood. I think the reason it was only happening on the pine is that the soft wood would just get fibrous and mushy, the build up wold then clog the blade. It make still cut through hard wood because as you remove material the remaining wood on the tree maintains its shape and characteristics, meaning its still able to force its way through the wood.

Conclusion

as stated by others go to a dealer with your saw and get a good chain and a flat file also raker depth guide. When you sharpen your cutting teeth also lower your rakers.

 

[rmh3481]

What kind of file are you using to sharpen your chain? In your third pic shown you have a pretty good beak started on that cutter. The top plate and side plate both need to be sharp. Consider trying a 3/16 or 5/32 round file to sharpen the side and top plate of each cutter with the same stroke. The packaging label will list the size of file to be used. When you lower the raker, which is the very front portion of the cutter, you also need to lower the safety bumper. For this task use a flat file. Stihl's website and U tube both have some video on how to sharpen a chain.

To answer your question about how chain is sold, it is by pitch, gauge, and length. A common standard size chain would be 3/8 pitch x .050 gauge x 20 inch. There are many other sizes available such as .404, .325 and so on. The pitch represents the size of the chain and its cutter. The gauge is the width of the groove that the chain rides in. Length is sometimes described by the number of driver links. Like this; 3/8 x .050 x 70, so a 70 driver link chain would fit a Poulan 20 inch bar. The reason for the driver link count is because some of the brands require extra links to fit the same length.

Bars, chains and sprockets are all sold in sets for fit. Take a ride by your local shop and ask them to make you up a couple of standard chains to fit your bar and sprocket.

Your saw was probably made by Poulan. Your chain looks like it is low profile 3/8 pitch safety chain. I dont think you can buy anything but safety chain at Sears, Home Depot or Lowes.

While you have the bar off for cleaning, you will notice near the mount slot that there is a hole that doesnt quite go through all the way. This is the oil hole and it should line up with the bar mount slot where the oil enters from the pump. The bar is hollow inside to allow the oil to seep to the chain as it moves. Sometimes the monogrammed bars dont have oil holes when you flip them upside down. I guess they dont want you to read their name wrong...who knows why, just telling you to look. It could be that when you have the bar on upside down that the oil cannot get to the chain?

Best wishes,
Bob

 

[Rftreeman]

I'm puzzled as to why it will cut the locust (hardest wood I know of) and not the pine, I think it will come down to chain maintenance sharping and such, it doesn't take much too get a chain way out of wack if not filed correctly especially that type of chain, I'd say try a new chain, I'll bet that fixes it.

I'm also pretty sure that poulan makes Craftsman saws now.

 

[Mustangous]

Thanks everyone for all the information. It has helped a lot!

Maybe stil-o-matic is on to something. As said earlier the exact way everything happened was I just put a new chain on and cut 3 locust down, then a pine, than an oak, all no bigger than 15". After i knocked that pine down i cut all the branches off(small in diameter). Went to cut the main part of the tree in 18" sections I had problems cutting. Not sure what happened that prevented me from cutting, but i didn't stop cutting and over heated the chain. I tried to work the saw around the tree because it seemed to cut the outside of the tree 2" deep all around but wouldn't go deeper. So maybe i over heated the chain and something happened. Then i cut the oak down i had the same problem. I brought out my other saw and finished up the oak and not the pine. Just dragged the pine to the side. So this past Sunday i have the bar and chain all cleaned and ready to go, same as the above pictures and it wouldn't cut. I had a hard time and it didn't cut straight. Went to lowes and bought an oregon bar and chain setup, still safety chain though and it cut great.

I searhed around for info on chains and browsed around on oregon chains website. I found a chain that is made for my saw. p/n is 91vx062G http://www.oregonchain.com/38.htm#91VX
it says it 3/8" pitch, .050 gauge, 62 links, semi-chisel, and low profile. It does have a warning about kickback on it. They have a few recommendations, but this one was a professional model.
I found it cheap here
http://www.cmsmallengines.net/91vx062g-low-pro-62-links-3-8-low-profile-chain-.html

If i get time I am going to run by my local chainsaw shop and run all this by them tomorrow, if not then Wednesday. I bet is has something to do with the chain because i took a brand new saw back a year ago because of this same issue and situation. Everything was new on it and I had not had the file to it.

thanks again for everyones help!