Having trouble cutting pine trees

[buzz sawyer]

Just my two cents worth. The safety chain may be slower but I don't believe it is your primary problem from the pictures.

The safety tie straps mostly come into play at the tip of the bar to prevent kickback. They are well below the depth gauges as shown in the photos which do appear to be too high.

As rmh3481 mentioned, looks to me like you have used the wrong size file and are cutting more with the top of the tooth than the side - the part that creates your kerf and keeps the cut open. As you first stated, it seemed like the wood is swelling up in the cut. Since Pine is a softer wood, the chain may be tearing the grain along the sides of the cut rather than shearing it as it would with harder grain like oak or locust.
Since you mentioned this also happened with a fairly new chain, you should have the bar slot checked for wear. If worn, the tooth can also lean inward and not cut an adequate kerf. There have been other threads like this, usually comes down to getting a good bar and properly sharpened chain.

 

[JONSEREDFAN6069]

Hello, I am a new to tree felling and have been very carefull and taking my time cutting some trees in my yard. I have been cutting down a lot of Locust trees. I been reading around and trying to be on top of my about maintanance of my craftsman 18" saw. At the end of the day i always clean up and take about 3 or 4 swips of the file on each tooth of the chain. I just put a new chain on it and have a bout a half a days use on it. I have no problems with the locust tree, but when it comes to the pine, I have a very hard time cutting through it. Its seems like it is swelling up or something. I can cut around the edges but the center of it it seems like the chain just spins and not making contact. The chain gets hot too. Also seems like it doenst cut straight either, maybe because its not cutting so i add pressure to it and i am tweaking it causing the curved cut. It seems like the sap is cloggin it up or something. Any advise of what i am doing wrong?

Thanks in advance
Troy

hey Troy. this pine you have cut part way through all around the base. is it stihl standing cut part way through or did you get it down? sounds like it's not very safe if it's stihl up. dump the safety chain gat yourself a new semi or full chisel chain and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference. also if you have a carpenters square you can take the bar off and lay it on one side of the square push it so the groove touches the other part of the square to check if the bar needs to be ground or not. hold it at the tip and look down the bar egde when you run the square down it and if you can see daylite under any part of the rails on either side it needs to be either replaced or profesionally ground to get it perfect. they can also close the rails if need be.

 

[Mustangous]

As rmh3481 mentioned, looks to me like you have used the wrong size file and are cutting more with the top of the tooth than the side - the part that creates your kerf and keeps the cut open. As you first stated, it seemed like the wood is swelling up in the cut. Since Pine is a softer wood, the chain may be tearing the grain along the sides of the cut rather than shearing it as it would with harder grain like oak or locust.
Since you mentioned this also happened with a fairly new chain, you should have the bar slot checked for wear. If worn, the tooth can also lean inward and not cut an adequate kerf. There have been other threads like this, usually comes down to getting a good bar and properly sharpened chain.

I am using the file for the chain. This is what i am using....
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100388784
I really dont think this is a sharpening issue, because i had the same issue with a brand new saw before and brought it back because it was my first time with a saw and didnt know anything. over a year later and i probably cut down about 35 trees in my yard now i have never had a problem yet. And i have been sharpening my chain a lot. Like i said earlier, after each long day i would clean up my saw, blow everything out, lube, and take 3 swips with the file to just touch it up. As someone mentioned, I probably am sharpening too much, but i never had an issue. I do alternate between 2 of the same craftsman saws (35088) i have just to even out the use. I do cut everything down to about 18" pieces and the saw does get a pretty decent amount of use by the end of the day. I just put a new chain on this saw before this issue too, so maybe its the bar issue. I dont know, i am a little baffled because of the first time i had that issue a year ago was on a brand new saw. I have very little pines here, but i do have 2 more to come down so thats why i am trying to figure this out.

hey Troy. this pine you have cut part way through all around the base. is it stihl standing cut part way through or did you get it down? sounds like it's not very safe if it's stihl up. dump the safety chain gat yourself a new semi or full chisel chain and you'll be pleasantly surprised at the difference. also if you have a carpenters square you can take the bar off and lay it on one side of the square push it so the groove touches the other part of the square to check if the bar needs to be ground or not. hold it at the tip and look down the bar egde when you run the square down it and if you can see daylite under any part of the rails on either side it needs to be either replaced or profesionally ground to get it perfect. they can also close the rails if need be.

Pines down now, i would never leave a cut tree up even if i had to use an ax...lol

I have a new bar and chain on their now, but its a safety chain. I am hesitant to use it on a pine because i dont want to wipe out another chain.
any opinions on the like i have to the chain posted above from oregon? is oregon any good?

Thanks again.

 

[JONSEREDFAN6069]

oregon chain is good. personally i like stihl chain. i cut pine all day long and don't have any dulling issues unless i put it in the dirt. wich i'm known to do from time to time. lol, i didn't think you'd leave it standing. safety chain is ok but it's slow. it should have ripped through the soft pine like a hot knife through butter but i think with the rakers set so high it wasn't clearing the chips like it should. how did the chips look were they big or was it more like saw dust?

 

[Rftreeman]

New chain

It is possible that the new chain is the wrong gauge meaning the drive teeth are narrower than the grove in the bar causing the chain to roll to the side or the other, this could explain the curved cut also but I still think it is just that you got your chain out of wack.

 

[brownie525]

Mustangous were are you at in jersey?

 

[Mustangous]

oregon chain is good. personally i like stihl chain. i cut pine all day long and don't have any dulling issues unless i put it in the dirt. wich i'm known to do from time to time. lol, i didn't think you'd leave it standing. safety chain is ok but it's slow. it should have ripped through the soft pine like a hot knife through butter but i think with the rakers set so high it wasn't clearing the chips like it should. how did the chips look were they big or was it more like saw dust?

I think that the chips coming out was like chuncks around the edge of the tree but the torwards the center was nothing.

Mustangous were are you at in jersey?

I'm in spotswood, near east brunswick in middlesex county.

When a chain says low profile, what does that mean? shallow cutting depth?

 

[dingeryote]

I think that the chips coming out was like chuncks around the edge of the tree but the torwards the center was nothing.


I'm in spotswood, near east brunswick in middlesex county.

When a chain says low profile, what does that mean? shallow cutting depth?

Low pro= lower height cutters.

Question for you.

Any chance you ran into an old metal stake in that tree?

Just askin... I once cut into old TV antennae tubing in a tree.
It seems my Grandpa's antennae busted and he got a new one, then busted off the tubing and used them for planting stakes around the house and garden. 25 years later Granny wants the nasty old arbovitae gone and you know the rest.

Whatever ya do, hit the local saw shop with your saw and that chain, and tell him what's going on. Let 'em help you out in real time, but don't buy anything more expensive than a NON-safety chain.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[treeguydavid]

one side

your

Hello, I am a new to tree felling and have been very carefull and taking my time cutting some trees in my yard. I have been cutting down a lot of Locust trees. I been reading around and trying to be on top of my about maintanance of my craftsman 18" saw. At the end of the day i always clean up and take about 3 or 4 swips of the file on each tooth of the chain. I just put a new chain on it and have a bout a half a days use on it. I have no problems with the locust tree, but when it comes to the pine, I have a very hard time cutting through it. Its seems like it is swelling up or something. I can cut around the edges but the center of it it seems like the chain just spins and not making contact. The chain gets hot too. Also seems like it doenst cut straight either, maybe because its not cutting so i add pressure to it and i am tweaking it causing the curved cut. It seems like the sap is cloggin it up or something. Any advise of what i am doing wrong?

Thanks in advance
Troy

 

[treeguydavid]

try a chain guide kit by husky

your getting one side of the chain sharper than the other or the pitch of the angle different

 

[Bearcreek]

Thanks everyone for all the information. It has helped a lot!

Maybe stil-o-matic is on to something. As said earlier the exact way everything happened was I just put a new chain on and cut 3 locust down, then a pine, than an oak, all no bigger than 15". After i knocked that pine down i cut all the branches off(small in diameter). Went to cut the main part of the tree in 18" sections I had problems cutting. Not sure what happened that prevented me from cutting, but i didn't stop cutting and over heated the chain. I tried to work the saw around the tree because it seemed to cut the outside of the tree 2" deep all around but wouldn't go deeper. So maybe i over heated the chain and something happened. Then i cut the oak down i had the same problem. I brought out my other saw and finished up the oak and not the pine. Just dragged the pine to the side. So this past Sunday i have the bar and chain all cleaned and ready to go, same as the above pictures and it wouldn't cut. I had a hard time and it didn't cut straight. Went to lowes and bought an oregon bar and chain setup, still safety chain though and it cut great.

I searhed around for info on chains and browsed around on oregon chains website. I found a chain that is made for my saw. p/n is 91vx062G http://www.oregonchain.com/38.htm#91VX
it says it 3/8" pitch, .050 gauge, 62 links, semi-chisel, and low profile. It does have a warning about kickback on it. They have a few recommendations, but this one was a professional model.
I found it cheap here
http://www.cmsmallengines.net/91vx062g-low-pro-62-links-3-8-low-profile-chain-.html

If i get time I am going to run by my local chainsaw shop and run all this by them tomorrow, if not then Wednesday. I bet is has something to do with the chain because i took a brand new saw back a year ago because of this same issue and situation. Everything was new on it and I had not had the file to it.

thanks again for everyones help!

Sounds to me like you may have bent the bar. Sometimes a saw thats got a bent bar will cut ok till you get the bar in the cut ahead of and behind the bend and then it'll cut slow or curved or not at all.

 

[Mustangous]

I broght my saw to the shop yesterday and had no luck. The guy just shook his head and said he doesnt have anything that would fit. I was a little baffled, because couldnt he just pull out his roll of 3/8" pitch and .050 gauge chain out and make it to the correct length, which is 62 links? I have a new bar and chain (as said previously) from lowes and he ran his finger on it and told me that it was dull. I only had a half a day on it and i havent hit any dirt with it either, its been cutting great. I am a little afraid to try the pine tree that i have on the ground though. lol

I did notice my chain today and the rakers (if thats the proper name) inbetween the teeth are not high like the other original chain i had. HEre are some pics of the new bar and chain. would this be considered a safety chain too?

I was thinking of just oredering a chain online...
what do you guys think of this one?
http://www.cmsmallengines.net/91vx062g-low-pro-62-links-3-8-low-profile-chain-.html
I was thinking this is a good chain for my saw because it isnt a safety chain and its low profile. I figured a low profile MIGHT be better because i am not sure if my saw is powerfull enough to cut with a regular profile chain. Or should i just go on one of the site on the top of this site like Bailey's and pick a Full chisel, 3/8 pitch, .050 gauge, and 62 links chain???

Thanks again for all your guys help!

 

[ddhlakebound]

Chain sharpening may be part of the problem, but not the biggest one.

Your bar is mushroomed. I'll bet if you slide your finger vertically both the top and bottom edges have a defined lip. It's from the friction of an overheated bar, and lots of cutting without proper bar maintenance.

Take the same flat file you got for filing rakers, and put your old bar in a vice. File off the lip on both top and bottom. File almost parallel to the bar, so only the lip is being removed, and not any material which the chain should be riding on. It'll cut much better. That tiny little lip will completely prohibit your bar from entering the cut, because it's now wider than kerf the chain is cutting.

 

[howellhandmade]

Chain sharpening may be part of the problem, but not the biggest one.

Your bar is mushroomed. I'll bet if you slide your finger vertically both the top and bottom edges have a defined lip. It's from the friction of an overheated bar, and lots of cutting without proper bar maintenance.

SNIP

Not to argue, how can you tell? The bar looks pristine. I would think if it had been overheated the paint at the edges would be discolored, and it it had seen lots of cutting, with or without maintenance, at least some of the paint would be gone. Wrong gauge, perhaps?

Jack

 

[ddhlakebound]

This pic shows how hot the bar has been, and (although the angle isn't good) it looks to me as if the mushroomed lip is visible in the pic.

I've done the same thing to a bar or two in the past, it's not too hard to mess up a bar if you try to make it cut when it doesnt want to.

Even with sharp chains and plenty of lube, a bar will slowly mushroom over time, if only a tiny bit. Normally one or two passes of the file will correct it after weeks or months of use, but a severe mushrooming takes some filing to work out.

 

[howellhandmade]

This pic shows how hot the bar has been, and (although the angle isn't good) it looks to me as if the mushroomed lip is visible in the pic.

I've done the same thing to a bar or two in the past, it's not too hard to mess up a bar if you try to make it cut when it doesnt want to.

Even with sharp chains and plenty of lube, a bar will slowly mushroom over time, if only a tiny bit. Normally one or two passes of the file will correct it after weeks or months of use, but a severe mushrooming takes some filing to work out.

Ahh, I was looking at the photos a couple of posts previous, which showed a brand new Oregon bar. I thought that was the setup that was cutting crooked.

Jack

 

[Mustangous]

ahh, makes sence why a messed up bar will not cut and/or cut crooket. But my problem is why did it stop cutting when i got to the pine. It stopped cutting and me being very fustrated and impatient kept on trying to work around till the point that i burnt up the bar to the point that you see it in the pic. So i know i screwed it up and now i know why thants to everyones help here. THANKS!!!

So the only other thing i am thinking is that the safety chain hard a hard time cutting through the pine and I just kept at it till I burnt up and wore out the bar.

Any suggestions on the other chains i mentioned?

 

[Metals406]

ahh, makes sence why a messed up bar will not cut and/or cut crooket. But my problem is why did it stop cutting when i got to the pine. It stopped cutting and me being very fustrated and impatient kept on trying to work around till the point that i burnt up the bar to the point that you see it in the pic. So i know i screwed it up and now i know why thants to everyones help here. THANKS!!!

So the only other thing i am thinking is that the safety chain hard a hard time cutting through the pine and I just kept at it till I burnt up and wore out the bar.

Any suggestions on the other chains i mentioned?

Any 3/8" .050ga, full chisel that isn't a safety chain... It'll blow your mind the difference it makes.

 

[Keating]

I may have missed it in your post but are you maintaining your depth gauge... filing your rakers too?

What he said.:agree2:

 

[wvlogger]

Yes, the blade shaped things in between the teeth and depth gauges (raker's) makes that a safety chain. Helps with kickback, other than that it's crappy.

See if these quick drawings help?

hay do a square ground please