Help!! Logger wants to cut down my trees!!

[Collegegirl007]

Hello,
I'm new to the site so I hope I'm posting in the right area!

I live in Missouri, in the middle of a wooded area, which is a total of 10 acres. We have a lot of Oak trees, including White Oak, and some cedar.

I just had a logger come to my door wanting to do a walk around my property. He came back saying he estimates $5000 but it'll be split in half and We'd get $2500 (he said that's estimate only, could end up being more or less). This seems like a large amount of money, and the logger did not mention what trees he is after (my dad feels he's after only white oak) or how many he was interested in cutting.
So I'm hoping you guys who are experienced can help me out. For the amount quoted, can you estimate how many trees he's planning on cutting? Is each tree really worth a large amount or is he planning to clear a large portion of my woods out?
If I agree to this, would there be a bunch of big, loud trucks in my yard for a day? How would it work?
I haven't agreed to anything yet, but will have to decide quickly cause I think he's coming back around again soon, so any information you guys with experience or knowledge can give me would be really helpful!
Thank you so much!!

 

[XSKIER]

Please post up some pics of your woodlot. Also, have your logger mark the trees he is wanting to take.

 

[Gologit]

Before you agree to or sign anything you'll need to find out more about what your trees are actually worth. Don't take the logger's word for it. He might be honest, he might not. How would you know?
To find out the value of your trees you'll need a professional Forester. He'll walk your ground and give you an idea of the timber value. If your state or county has a Forestry division you can find out from them how to contact one. The Forester will help make sure that you're treated fairly. Don't take a Forester who's employed by the mill the timber is going to. Make sure the Forester has no vested interest in your timber value other than determining it.
Have a signed agreement in place before any cutting begins detailing responsibility for roads, slash, cleanup, damage, and soil remediation. Make sure the logger is insured.
Don't let the logger pressure you. He has to buy, you don't have to sell...and those trees aren't going anywhere.
Watch the logger like a hawk. Make sure you get copies of all scale tickets and/or load receipts. Most loggers are honest but why take a chance?

And by the way, I'm logger.





Edit...I probably forgot to mention several things. There's a lady named Slowp who'll probably reply to this thread. She spent 30 years with the FS doing timber sales and what she doesn't know isn't worth knowing. She can fill in the blanks.
There are also some Foresters on here, Madhatte, OlympicYJ, and a couple of others who know what they're talking about.
And you'll notice I capitalized Forester? Loggers are always trying to make points with Foresters.

 

[Collegegirl007]

Thank you so much! That's a lot of great information. There's a lot more to watch out for than I knew.
Since your a logger, may I ask what you look for in a tree to determine its worth? Can one single tree really be worth $200 (I read that on another website, unsure if it holds any truth)?

Does taking $5000 worth of timber and paying us half ($2500) seem correct? If I decided to do this, I don't want to get ripped off. I was told by a family member who use to be in the business that the logger paying us half is more than reasonable because he use to pay less. But I want to be sure!

I know some of my questions may be difficult to answer without physically walking through my property, so thank you so much for answering my questions and helping me out!

 

[Collegegirl007]

I just read your edit -Thank you!! I hope they can reply as well and give me their thoughts as well!! I look forward to reading what they have to say.
Lol I did notice that!!

 

[northmanlogging]

Different timber, but 2500 for 10 acres seems low to me, granted I'm not a hardwood guy so I'm not sure on that.

Do call a Forester, or at the very least 1-43 more loggers. Like gologit said some good some bad, the bad ones are pretty bad.

As far as what to expect, try a week to a month of noisy chainsaws, noisy equipment, big noisy trucks, and then a bunch of limbs and brush laying around to pick up or burn. Logging is a noisy business, part of why I like it. The time it takes to complete depends on what kind of equipment they plan on using, and the list is long on that, but a summarry could be hand falling cable skidding, or fully mechanized machines cutting and dragging everything, to something in between.

A few pictures would give us a better idea of whats going on by the way.

For the book I'm also a Logger albeit part time

good luck.

 

[treeslayer2003]

well........5000 would be about 3-4 loads of mediocre white oak in my neck of the woods. yes I am a logger. half is ok off the top but be advised some white oak could be worth much more.....at least the first 12 feet of the tree if they are really nice and good size. if I were you I wouldn't allow cutting of any less than 20" dbh unless they are sick. like gologit said a forester is your best bet. county forester if you have one.

 

[treeslayer2003]

and he should give you a count of how many trees he wants to take. if he don't know then he don't have an idea what you'll get. if they are marked and counted then you know what will be taken and how many you will get paid for.
it could be cut right or you could end up with a big mess.

 

[treeslayer2003]

one single tree could be worth 1000 dollars or more, but this would be the exception not the rule.

 

[Reddog]

but will have to decide quickly cause I think he's coming back around again soon, so any information you guys with experience or knowledge can give me would be really helpful!

He can wait!

Get yourself in contact with a Consulting Forester. That will be a forester that works for you, with your management plan being their goal.

Here is a link to your State Association of Consulting Foresters. http://www.missouriforesters.com/searchMCFA.php

 

[Gologit]

He can wait!

Get yourself in contact with a Consulting Forester. That will be a forester that works for you, with your management plan being their goal.

Here is a link to your State Association of Consulting Foresters. http://www.missouriforesters.com/searchMCFA.php

Good advice from everybody so far.

 

[Gologit]

Thank you so much! That's a lot of great information. There's a lot more to watch out for than I knew.
Since your a logger, may I ask what you look for in a tree to determine its worth? Can one single tree really be worth $200 (I read that on another website, unsure if it holds any truth)?

Yup, it's like any other business dealing where one party knows more than the other...somebody can wind up with light pockets.
I don't know much about your kind of trees and very little about their potential value....I'm out here on the Left Coast and what hardwoods we have are mostly cut for firewood. Some of the guys on here who work in your part of the country can make some pretty good guesses but, again, it's good to have a third party determine the actual worth.
I'll back out and let them that know have their say. Good luck to you and keep us posted as to what happens.

 

[Twindad]

Yep. Good advice so far. Please take it.

Like Gologit said, most loggers are honest, hard working, good folks. With that said, in my experience, in my part of the country, the ones who go around knocking on doors looking for timber aren't always the most reputable. Most of the time, the best loggers' reputations precede them and the landowners find them-- they don't have to go around knocking on doors.

 

[Time's Standing Stihl]

I totally agree w/ Twindad. Most loggers I know don't go knocking, everyone seeks them.

Something kinda smells fishy to me.

 

[Gologit]

Just thought of something else to add. You asked about noisy trucks and such. Northman said it right...logging is noisy. Saws or feller-bunchers, skidders, logging trucks, and such all add to it. And dust. If the only way in and out of the timber is past your house you can count on a certain amount of noise.

Something else to consider...even the most skilled and careful logging is going to create a mess. Slash piles, skid roads, torn up dirt. And stumps... lots of stumps. Most reputable loggers will do what they can to mitigate the damage but it's still going to look way different than before they arrived. A good logger will work without creating any unnecessary damage to the trees left behind or the ground itself.
A bad logger will leave your place looking like a moon-scape.

Are we cheering you up or scaring you off?

 

[Woody912]

Hello,
I'm new to the site so I hope I'm posting in the right area!

I live in Missouri, in the middle of a wooded area, which is a total of 10 acres. We have a lot of Oak trees, including White Oak, and some cedar.

I just had a logger come to my door wanting to do a walk around my property. He came back saying he estimates $5000 but it'll be split in half and We'd get $2500 (he said that's estimate only, could end up being more or less). This seems like a large amount of money, and the logger did not mention what trees he is after (my dad feels he's after only white oak) or how many he was interested in cutting.
So I'm hoping you guys who are experienced can help me out. For the amount quoted, can you estimate how many trees he's planning on cutting? Is each tree really worth a large amount or is he planning to clear a large portion of my woods out?
If I agree to this, would there be a bunch of big, loud trucks in my yard for a day? How would it work?
I haven't agreed to anything yet, but will have to decide quickly cause I think he's coming back around again soon, so any information you guys with experience or knowledge can give me would be really helpful!
Thank you so much!!

I would ask him for some kind of a tally sheet from his cruise and then post it. Along with some pics of your good white oaks. And find another local and get more bids. Don't think the cedars are worth much. And they will tear heck out of your woods.

 

[Collegegirl007]

Thanks guys, you've given me a lot of information. Gologit - you guys are definitely scaring me away from this! I completely appreciate what you guys do for a living, but to be honest I really was never for this to begin with. I love my trees, but my parents own this property, so the decision will be up to them in the end. I hope they decide against it cause I'll be sad to see my trees gone, and a bunch of mess in their place, but if they do go through with it, I want to be sure they aren't getting ripped off or being taken into a bad deal. I have already contacted my local Forester - thanks everyone for that advice! I will hopefully hear back from him in the morning!

I've seen a few requests for pictures, so I will be attaching several for you guys to look over. These were taken this past fall, everything you see in the pictures is still the way it looks now - except with no leaves since we're just getting over winter where I'm at. Or we're supposed to be getting over winter, the weather says we're getting some snow tomorrow after the past several days has been 60 degrees +! Gotta love the Mid-West!

Thanks again to everyone, you are such a huge help! Let me know what you think of the photos!

 

[slowp]

Check references! Ask where they've worked. Go look at a recent job. Talk to folks who've worked with them. Is there some kind of accredation program for loggers there? We've got the Warshington Contract Loggers Assc. and Oregon has the Association of Oregon Loggers. Loggers belonging to those groups have to attend seminars and classes each year. That means they are up on what is the latest stuff. Do they have workman's comp? Are they bonded?

Make sure it is spelled out, in writing, on what is expected. The logger is going to be interested in getting the trees down, cut into logs, and delivered to the mill. But you may want them to pile the slash (limbs and tops) and maybe even chip it. I don't know what is customary in your area, but if you have a house and buildings nearby, you'll want to deal with the slash because it can be a fire hazard. The cleanup work is not the logger's favorite part of the job--he's not making much money from it, but you need to figure out in advance what you want done.

Spell out when work needs to come to a halt because of muddy conditions. Logging equipment can make a mess in the mud. Yeah, they can backblade the ruts out, but that isn't the best thing for soils. Does your state have rules to follow? Do you have a state forestry dept.? Out here, you are required to have a harvest plan approved before operations begin if you are logging more than a log truck load.

Somehow, I get the feeling that the rush may be a bad sign. But that's just me. The guy could have his equipment nearby and that cuts down on the cost of trucking the equipment in.

Logging will mess up how your place looks for a while. Out here, the brush grows back quickly and the stumps and skid trails become hidden. The only logging method that doesn't create ground disturbance is using a helicopter, and you sure don't want to pay for that!

I also recommend finding a forester to help out. He or she can measure (cruise) the timber and come up with a volume estimate and the various grades (quality) of logs you have. Like already has been said, get somebody who is not working for the mill or the logger. Some states have county foresters--maybe give your county extension agent a call to find out. Or google it. Some states have state foresters who can give some advice. Check it out.

Be careful. Logging can be fun to watch. I've got a friend who was reluctant to have the family place logged again. The previous loggers had scarred up the leave trees during thinning operations. A logging operation was going on up the road. I was the Forester on that job. She asked me how they were, I gave a glowing report--they were excellent, she got them to thin her timber and wanted them back in a few years. That's the way it should go. They took the time to explain and go over what would go on, and her husband could even talk motorcycles with them.

 

[northmanlogging]

Not to sway you one way or the other, sometimes logging can be an improvement. Open things up a bit let the trees breath, take care of disease etc.

A Forester could tell you more.

 

[slowp]

Not to sway you one way or the other, sometimes logging can be an improvement. Open things up a bit let the trees breath, take care of disease etc.

A Forester could tell you more.

Yes. We thin trees so they'll grow faster and be healthier. Here's an example of what one of our thinnings looks like. Not pretty, but it is what we want and will green up the next year.