Hello. I found this very informative site while searching for answers. I have a "forest" as my kids call it on the side of my house with about four different pine trees. They have been growing healthy since before we moved in in 2005. In 2011 we had new neighbors move in next door. Their basement always floods when snow melts or it rains because they live down hill from all our neighbors. In April 2014, they built a burm of rocks and dirt on their property but then when it rained the water would flow through our property. I have pictures from August 2014 where our two eastern white pines were full and beautiful! However within a year the needles turned brown, fell off and never came back. The tow trees died. I know they were drowned From all the water we had from my neighbors burm. It washed soul away from their roots. Now three more trees are dying. One is a beautiful spruce. It is loosing needles and thinking out. It is looking weepy, the branches look wilted and kind of Browning gray. The other two trees are pines as well. They are turning brown. They have their down spouts running directly under our spruce now. How can I prove that they are drowning and have killed the two other trees so they can pay to have them removed and so they can remove the burm. I have consulted with a lawyer and our county. I was told by both that what they did by redirecting water to our house was illegal but the county can't do anything and the lawyer says I need to talk to my neighbors and I need to prove my trees were drowned. How can I prove it? Also what can I do to save my trees? I love my pines. I used to sit and just watch them on sunny days or I enjoyed the winter with the snow on them. I can't have anymore trees die. Thank you
Help Please! neighbor is drowning my beautiful trees!
- Thread starter shalae
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I am trying to post photos. The ones about are the pipes from their house and you can see where the water flows and their actual burm. I am trying to upload photos of how beautiful the trees were in August 2014 and what they look like now and a few photos of the water under the trees
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1) It is difficult, if not impossible to prove that trees which are no longer there were killed by excessive water. Heck, it is difficult to prove (in the legal sense) that existing trees currently being harmed are actually being harmed by too much water and not other ailments. Have you had a professional arborist out to assess the situation with you to confirm that is what is going on? I'm not saying that is NOT what is going on...I don't know/not enough from those pictures to tell. Just saying an expert on-site opinion may be a good place to start. There are a few different things really hurting the spruce trees around here (NW Ohio) right now. Excessive water won't help any of those...but there are dying trees where there isn't too much water too.
2) Have you talked to the neighbor? Having an arborist's evaluation when you do approach them may help. Imagine starting the conversation: "Hey, I had an expert out to evaluate my trees. They are pretty sure there is too much water getting on their roots and they asked if there had been any recent changes in local drainage. The problems seem to have started soon after you re-routed your downspouts and basement drains this way..." - now it is the arborit's fault, not yours! As opposed to "I think you are killing my trees jerk!"
3) What does it mean that it is illegal to redirect water onto you? Do you have to prove harm for that to be wrong, or is it simply wrong to redirect water onto a neighboring property? Is that a criminal or civil (more likely) matter? if civil, than that is why the County won't/can't do anything. Best case remains talking to the neighbor. Taking people to court tends to not smooth over neighborly relations. Do they have other options (maybe running a solid corrugated black pipe from those downspouts to the street???) (probably getting too far away from tree advise here...back to my own area of expertise!) Perhaps a consultation with drainage contractor is in order.
4) Have you looked at replanting where the trees were lost? There are trees (though not many evergreens) that can tolerate saturated soil conditions. My favorite choice in such situations is Bald cypress. A beautiful fast growing tree that can tolerate really wet soil.
good luck!
2) Have you talked to the neighbor? Having an arborist's evaluation when you do approach them may help. Imagine starting the conversation: "Hey, I had an expert out to evaluate my trees. They are pretty sure there is too much water getting on their roots and they asked if there had been any recent changes in local drainage. The problems seem to have started soon after you re-routed your downspouts and basement drains this way..." - now it is the arborit's fault, not yours! As opposed to "I think you are killing my trees jerk!"
3) What does it mean that it is illegal to redirect water onto you? Do you have to prove harm for that to be wrong, or is it simply wrong to redirect water onto a neighboring property? Is that a criminal or civil (more likely) matter? if civil, than that is why the County won't/can't do anything. Best case remains talking to the neighbor. Taking people to court tends to not smooth over neighborly relations. Do they have other options (maybe running a solid corrugated black pipe from those downspouts to the street???) (probably getting too far away from tree advise here...back to my own area of expertise!) Perhaps a consultation with drainage contractor is in order.
4) Have you looked at replanting where the trees were lost? There are trees (though not many evergreens) that can tolerate saturated soil conditions. My favorite choice in such situations is Bald cypress. A beautiful fast growing tree that can tolerate really wet soil.
good luck!
1.). I have documented extensively with close to 100 photos and videos of the water flowing through our property when it rains. I have photos before when trees were healthy and when they were dying. The dirt is completely washed away. There is fungus growing on the trees which is a sign of excess water. I have contacted a tree service to come examine the trees. Also, the eastern white pines that have died, from my research, they are a favorite right now because they are resistant to many diseases that affect other trees, however they cannot handle extreme environmental changes, like the excessive water.
2. I have contacted a tree service. I am hoping they can come out next week. My neighbor is very hard to talk the attorney informed me to send her a letter explaining she is causing property damage and needs to fix it.
3. It is illegal to change your yard to drain or reroute water on to your neighbors property. If you are down hill you must accept that water. The man I spoke to that does building codes in my county and the free legal advice lawyer I spoke to said it is illegal to change the flow of water on to your neighbors property. I am not trying to be rude but don't understand what you mean by asking how it's illegal. You can't change the flow of water to damage your neighbors property. They should have had their yard professionally graded. Because water still gets into the basement.
4. I am thinking of making a rain garden where the trees have died. I really appreciate your recommendation of the bald Cypress. I will definitely look that tree. Thank you for your time. I hope I didn't sound rude. This is stressful.
2. I have contacted a tree service. I am hoping they can come out next week. My neighbor is very hard to talk the attorney informed me to send her a letter explaining she is causing property damage and needs to fix it.
3. It is illegal to change your yard to drain or reroute water on to your neighbors property. If you are down hill you must accept that water. The man I spoke to that does building codes in my county and the free legal advice lawyer I spoke to said it is illegal to change the flow of water on to your neighbors property. I am not trying to be rude but don't understand what you mean by asking how it's illegal. You can't change the flow of water to damage your neighbors property. They should have had their yard professionally graded. Because water still gets into the basement.
4. I am thinking of making a rain garden where the trees have died. I really appreciate your recommendation of the bald Cypress. I will definitely look that tree. Thank you for your time. I hope I didn't sound rude. This is stressful.
Not at all...sounds like you have spent a lot of time digging into some of those questions before I even asked. Good for you. Running back through:
1) I agree that eastern white pine doesn't like wet feet. However, I would still not make a statement that could end up in court that your missing trees were killed by excessive water. I am not saying they weren't....just that as an arborist, I have no way to document that years after the fact. I can suspect that, but that is not good enough if things go to court. I have to know that or only a fool of an attorney would put on on the stand to testify as to what I cannot confirm with first hand evidence.
2) Good to hear your are planning to work with an expert and an attorney.
3) Not to sound rude myself...but there is a difference in criminal law and civil law. Is it a criminal act for them to redirect water? If not, that likely means it is a civil mater. Government entities are going to try VERY hard to avoid becoming engaged in a civil battle between 2 private citizens. Furthermore, if it is a civil matter, you need to prove you were harmed. Again, I agree, it sounds suspiciously like your white pine were killed by excessive water...how can that be proven in court? What happens when the defendant says "yeah, but I noticed a lot of brown needles and white sap oozing down the trunk the day we moved in before anything with the water changed." Not wanting to provide legal advice here...just reiterating (as an arborist) that autopsy reports on missing bodies (trees, in this case) are quite difficult to defend.
1) I agree that eastern white pine doesn't like wet feet. However, I would still not make a statement that could end up in court that your missing trees were killed by excessive water. I am not saying they weren't....just that as an arborist, I have no way to document that years after the fact. I can suspect that, but that is not good enough if things go to court. I have to know that or only a fool of an attorney would put on on the stand to testify as to what I cannot confirm with first hand evidence.
2) Good to hear your are planning to work with an expert and an attorney.
3) Not to sound rude myself...but there is a difference in criminal law and civil law. Is it a criminal act for them to redirect water? If not, that likely means it is a civil mater. Government entities are going to try VERY hard to avoid becoming engaged in a civil battle between 2 private citizens. Furthermore, if it is a civil matter, you need to prove you were harmed. Again, I agree, it sounds suspiciously like your white pine were killed by excessive water...how can that be proven in court? What happens when the defendant says "yeah, but I noticed a lot of brown needles and white sap oozing down the trunk the day we moved in before anything with the water changed." Not wanting to provide legal advice here...just reiterating (as an arborist) that autopsy reports on missing bodies (trees, in this case) are quite difficult to defend.
JeffGu
Antagonist/Heckler
Toronado3800
ArboristSite Member
Metasequoia is another even more unique choice with a similar look.
Metasequoia Ogon for an accent.
Metasequoia Ogon for an accent.
Build a berm
JeffGu
Antagonist/Heckler
Build a berm? Hell, just build a wall! We'll make the neighbor pay for it!
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