Help save my giant elm

[big1bully]

I am trying to save a giant American Elm in my back pasture. It sits just below an historic rural tavern, about half way down a 45 degree rock slope with the tops of its large roots exposed. It has been butchered several times by wind storms but still has a crown of over 90'. Until 1975, it was fed by horse and cow manure from a corral that overlapped the 100 ft. slope. Two years ago, I lost most of my other elm trees on the property and the giant looked like it was dying. Last year it appeared somewhat revived. Now that I'm retired and have time to worry, I'm worrying about the tree. This week I cut down about about 30 4-6" hackberry saplings growing inside the drip line. There are still about ten larger trees inside the same area. Should I leave the cut hackberry saplings where they are or drag them away? Should I try to fertilize? Should I cut down the larger trees? What would you do? Any suggestions for trying to keep this tree going would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dobber]

If you have any pics of the tree you can post, they can be a great help, aswell as any defects you can see, or have noticed in the past.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

All of those other trees grow with elms in the woods, leave them. We have little understanding about the inter-relationships of chemicals between plants.

Adding coarse mulch under the tree is always beneficial. Keep it saucered around the trunks. Water regularly.

Have you considered having the tree injected with a fungicide? Think of it as an insurance policy.

Tom

 

[big1bully]

I am very much appreciate the advice replies. I hope I get more.
The reason I had considered undergrowth cutting was because photos of champion elms in various states showed no trees within the dripline. However, I have halted any further cutting for now. Here's some more background. Five years ago the elm was damaged so badly by a wind storm I thought it would surely die. Two years ago, about the time I was losing most of my other elm trees, I noticed leaf wilting but not dying. Two upper limbs died but I was not focused enough to determine that it was not wind damage. Now, I'm focused like a laser on this tree. I hope I haven't damaged it by cutting some of the undergrowth. By the way, I had read somewhere that DED does not infect saplings, but I lost many of my fencerow saplings along with the bigger trees.

 

[Abbershay]

We had huge ice storms in 1997. The broke many branches and surely cracked most of them. I watched the elms to see if this would effect them right away. After about 5 years there was a huge increase in ded. You are likely see the effects of the wind damage on that tree. It will most likely die unless you give it injection ... And just as important have someone go up in that tree and trim out all the damage. The tree should have been trimmed out right away after the damage occured.

 

[big1bully]

I'm soaking up the advice. Thanks. I'm wondering if the fact that the elm is sitting on a rock slope puts it in a special problem category. When I look at the few large trees further north along the rocky bank, I see trees (black maple, black walnut, etc) with huge trunks but small, mostly dead crowns. Many water locusts (4-6") have died. The only Osage Organge on the bank, medium sized, died a few years ago. There's a lush undergrowth of very small trees but it appears the big trees have a tough life. Those at the very bottom of the bank, close to a wetlands area are ok. It seemed logical to me that all those hackberries under the elm were robbing it of the few nutrients it was getting off the rock slope. When we moved here in 1970, corral waste dribbled down to the tree and there was no undergrowth. If the big trees further north are dying, how can the elm survive with dozens of hackberries underneath? Just a thought. This could be the biggest elm sitting on solid rock in America. This was the slope which produced the stone for the two huge chimneys and the foundation for the historic rural tavern nearby. Dirt and leaves have settled into the cracks and crevices of the slope but otherwise its solid rock. The exposed elm roots which crawl along the banks are 6-8' diameter.

 

[Guy Meilleur]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
90% of what we do shortens a tree's life rather than prolongs it. Why not simply appreciate the tree instead of trying so hard to 'save' it?

Geez Brian,That's so wrong in so many ways I don't know where to start. I don't know who "we" is, but I look at trees I've worked on years later and see that on most of them a gentle guiding hand turned them away from decline and toward longevity.

A minority fail despite my efforts, a smaller minority fail due in part to my efforts.

If what you say is true I need to retire and stick to tending the nursery.
If what you say is true, why are you going to work tomorrow?

It's because I and my clients appreciate trees that I try so hard to save them.

 

[coffeecraver]

You might leave the sapplings alone and have an Arborist survey the past wind damage.

Then determine wether to cut the stubs back to the tree.They might be the source of a problem yet to come.

 

[Sylvatica]

I believe the decision to cut and remove the hackberries is prudent. While their allelopathic effect on grassy and herbaceous plants is understood, and one might argue that the hackberry might not be as harmful to the elm, I think the elm is higher on the threatened/valuable scale to you as the owner. With a concentration of the hackberries as heavy as you mentioned, it might be best to reduce or eliminate them.

You also mentioned black walnuts nearby. Might be a good idea to keep those away from the elm as well.

These plant toxins often target the germination of their competitors seed, but there certainly could be a cell growth or nutrient uptake suppression effect if the rhizosphere becomes too populous with the stuff.

Also, have you removed adjacent affected elms and standing deadwood to deny as much to beetles as practical?

 

[big1bully]

I am now seriously considering removing all the hackberry, walnut, water locust and elm saplings and dead wood to just beyond the dripline. When we moved here in 1970, there was no undergrowth at all beneath the elm, so all the undergrowth is small trees. Should I remove all the undergrowth I cut down or just leave it lying? How far beyond the dripline (90 ft spread) should I cut? It's probably my imagination, but the crown seems to look healthier since the initial cutting a month or so ago. As soon as I'm done, I'll include a photo. I will also give you spring, summer and fall updates. I respect all of your opinions, but how many of you have dealt with this size elm tree on a rock bank? I believe this tree is a lot older than it looks. The so-called saplings are 20-25 years old. Just above in the pasture, some of the same trees that are that old are huge. On the bank, they still look like saplings.

 

[treeslayer]

Originally posted by RockyJSquirrel
Based on the age of the tree, I would say 'no'. Why not simply appreciate the tree instead of trying so hard to 'save' it? [/B]

Just out of curiosity, rocky, do you even own a tree? Even I know a tree like this deserves attention, and big1bully's interest is to be commended. people think differently of their only trees, than we think of the many we encounter.

My parents lost 29 nice, big trees in Isabel, and I cried when I saw it. Even a butcher like me knows the value.

good comment, Guy.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

I feel that having trees under trees is better then grass, unless it's a prarrie tree.

Thinning the larger saplings out is not a bad thien either.

Planting prarrie flowers may be good to in helping with soil aeration, if there is much of it (soil that is). Whatever is done, adding a good organic layer in and beyond the dripline may help, but this sounds like a relatively undisturbed area.

Could the change from nutrient runoff have hurt the tree? hard to say.

The best advice is to interveiw a number of arborists and find someone you are comfortable with having care for yout trees.

The closest one to you I know is in OP, KS. That's like 2 hours away.

 

[Kneejerk Bombas]

Some pictures would go a long way to helping us give you information.
These days even regular camera's pictures can be scanned and posted, or put on disc at the photo lab for next to nothing.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Whats a 'prarrie' tree?

 

[big1bully]

I'll pick a nice sunny day (hard to come by), get a good pic, and post it (with help from my 13 year old granddaughter). Should be up in a couple of weeks.

 

[John Paul Sanborn]

Originally posted by MasterBlaster
Whats a 'prarrie' tree?

Prarie Tree? on that grows on a prarie?

Say Burr oak which is adapted to the mezic conditions and fire ecology. Can be found with few woody associates.

As apposed to woodland trees that prefer a shaded rootplate.

 

[jmchristopher]

I have a big problem recommending fungicide injections for trees showing symptoms of DED. They tend to die pretty quickly anyway, and the stuff is EXPENSIVE! I have heard of folks going to extraordinary measures with pruning 13.5 feet (or some such)below the lowest discovered cambial staining, and I've heard of folks like Dr. Jay Stipes who injects Alamo at 3x labeled rate to great effect. Like I said to start, they pretty much die anyway. The issue then comes down to whether the dieback and leaf wilt you've seen is actually DED...

 

[big1bully]

The last major wind damage was maybe six years ago. The elm repaired itself. New growth sprouted out of limbs that looked dead. There are several dead stubs but you have to look for them. I took a closer look at the tree this past summer after I lost many fence-row elms large and small. They died, whoof! before fall set in. A couple of small limbs on the giant elm had dead or dying leaves. Other limbs looked somewhat wilted. The tree never really looked healthy to me since the last big wind storm. However, minor wind damage and the early summer drought might explain some of the problems I thought I saw. I look at it now every day. I can't spare a large expense. I'll post a pic in a few days.

 

[jmchristopher]

Diagnosis?

You know this tele-diagnosis thing doesn't really work. Besides, if you haven't got funds to invest in pruning, injections, or professional on-site consultation, you're left with pretty much the power of prayer. Good luck!

 

[big1bully]

jmchristopher

You are correct. However, I did get some support for my theory that the sapling undergrowth might be damaging the elm. The support I got expedited the undergrowth removal which is now complete. Absent DED, the elm may now be saved. By the way,
here are a couple of pics some of you requested. I will give a spring report when the elm is in full leaf.