How many "hoops" do you jump through for city work?

[M.D. Vaden]

Our local municiple arborist told me that to bid for or do city work in Medford, a tree or landscape contractor must be prequalified through the engineering dept.

I thought they would just make sure we reviewed some standards, first.

The application was huge. Even notarized.

The had a page with about 20 boxes for previous projects done. They wanted to know what contracts I did. What the biggest was. Who the bonding company was at each, etc., etc..

The line for my landscape license and bond company made sense. I think the page for all my previous contracts back 5 years was absurd.

I still can figure out why they will limit any approval to my bond limit - that doesn't jive for pruning. Install maybe, but not pruning.

It was an opportunity to stir things up a bit. I called the mayor's office and one city council member to request a review. I told them that I couldn't even tell if I was qualified by this thing.

For example, if I listed a $50,000 landscape install, what's to say I didn't lie? They don't ask for a copy of the contract or the contact of the customer. What if the Japanese landscape company from Portland said that they did one for a million dollars - what's to say that it wasn't really worth $200,000 even if they were paid a million?

So....what's the scoop where you folks are at?

 

[treeseer]

On city and federal contracts here I recall the process having less demands. Yes they wanted previous contract info, but not 5 years' worth! Basic insurance questions, agreeing to clean up, releasing them from liability, etc.

It should be public info--could you look at others' apps and check some of their references? It'd provoke action like nothing else if you showed how the process is full of cracks that lies slip through.

OR is a cool place but I'm glad there's less regulation where I am.

 

[treeman45246]

Our contracts are full of boilerplate and requirements - dozens of pages of them required by the purchasing and law departments. I would guess that our paperwork dwarfs that of most cities. Remember that the bigger the city, and the more departments you involve, the slower and more screwed up things will tend to get. A talk with city council or a mayor's office may make you feel better, but these are often the most useless, least knowing people when you actually need a question answered. The volume of information required is huge, the pay for city contracts is often low (we take low bidder) but cities do pay their bills, and will often keep good contractors busy through the winter here in the midwest. Talk with the person running the contract, he or she will help you figure things out if they want you bidding on the work. If you're going to screw up the bid, err on the high side and lose it, otherwise you lose your surety bond and get banned from bidding for a time.

 

[a_lopa]

zero,if im not good enough thats "there"problem.

 

[ASD]

we do about 250K worth of city/state/fed/school - work a year the paper work is end less hear in CA.they all pay real slow (45 to 120 days) require bonds 10% bid 100%performance + 100%payment and they go with low bid so their is not a lot of profit to be made!!!! but once your set up to do the work it's end less. if you all ready have a good client base it can help you expand you bis. but like i said you do not make much $$$ on their jobs!!

 

[sotc]

if you want city work dont rile bill up to much. hes the first guy weve had here in a long time thats seeing the whole picture and he wont throw much work your way if you piss him off. hes fair but... . look around medford a bit, the tree situation here is poor and there will be alot of large removals coming up the next few years along with some large park contracts. take treemans advice, its good stuff

 

[Koa Man]

One reason I no longer do any city, state, federal work is all the bs and especially the slooow payment. I did a emergency pine tree removal for the state a few months ago where it had to be done asap. I then waited 60 days to get paid. When they call me to submit a bid, I tell them I cannot afford your business. I have more than enough work in the residential and commercial sector. I like residential work the best. I get done today and paid today. Having $$$$ hung up in "accounts receivables" sucks.

 

[treeman45246]

I agree, Koa. Cities pay slooow. But they do pay eventually (I would consider 60 days pretty good here). The upside is that aside from one emergency services contract, all my pruning and removal work is done on contracts that run November to March. For those of you who lay off good workers midwinter, or have bills to pay at a time of year when the phone seldom rings, it can be worthwhile. It takes a patient soul to deal with the contracts, and some financial discipline to survive the months of waiting for pay, but in the long run city contracts can help your business to not only survive the off season, but grow as well.

 

[Koa Man]

With your nasty winters, I can see doing government work may well be a necessity. In Hawaii with year around summer, residential work is busy the whole year. I once did a good sized federal job, trimming the trees at the National Cemetery. It took me 2 solid weeks. I paid out $18K in labor, fuel, etc. to complete the contract. I then had to wait 75 days before I got paid. No more federal jobs after that. I am fortunate that we don't have an off season here.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

if you want city work dont rile bill up to much. hes the first guy weve had here in a long time thats seeing the whole picture and he wont throw much work your way if you piss him off.

I think Bill Harrington is the best part of the process. My phone calls were isolated from him. I called the mayor's assistant.

Also, at that time, I worked for a lady who was on the Oregon Contractors Board as chairman for 2 years. I ran the issue by her and she put me in contact with one city coucil member who has the business background.

Fortunately, the mayor's office and council member both clearly understood that the calls were in the best interest of the community as opposed to just me trying to get in the door.

Since I was on the Oregon Landscape Contractors Board for 2 terms, and had worked with reams of policies and paperwork, it added credibility to concerns that Medford's engineering dept. application is not bringing Medford as much as it can potentially get in skills and value.

It's funny, I thought I was going to go down and let people make sure I had a bond and insurance so I could bid on a few minor small pruning / planting projects. And I find myself in this huge time consuming process.

 

[sotc]

well you might just be the man to lighten the paper work load around here then!

 

[kf_tree]

you just haven't figured out who to grease yet..............

 

[PTS]

How about hoops for being located in a city

Our new shop was purchased about 6 months ago and has been totally stripped and renovated. We now want to put an addition on and the city says we can't. Not because the addition will go out too close to the line, but because the existing building is located too closed to the property line in the back.

So now we have to go before a committee with a "lawyer drawn up" list of our intentions as well as drafted blueprint of our building addition to find out if they will allow this. They then check with all the neighbors in a 250 ft area of our property lines which will include all four blocks around our block, one of which is another business owner mad at us because their customers can't park on our property anymore since we moved in and another who is concerned that when her grandkids come to visit they won't be able to see the train go by from inside of the house with the new addition. And with all of this is a fee for the application. So after you pay the lawyer and the draftsman and the application fee you then could be turned down all because of something as simple as some neighbors squawking about what you do with YOUR Property. I love city politics. Frustration isn't really the right word!!!:censored:

 

[kf_tree]

Our new shop was purchased about 6 months ago and has been totally stripped and renovated. We now want to put an addition on and the city says we can't. Not because the addition will go out too close to the line, but because the existing building is located too closed to the property line in the back.

So now we have to go before a committee with a "lawyer drawn up" list of our intentions as well as drafted blueprint of our building addition to find out if they will allow this. They then check with all the neighbors in a 250 ft area of our property lines which will include all four blocks around our block, one of which is another business owner mad at us because their customers can't park on our property anymore since we moved in and another who is concerned that when her grandkids come to visit they won't be able to see the train go by from inside of the house with the new addition. And with all of this is a fee for the application. So after you pay the lawyer and the draftsman and the application fee you then could be turned down all because of something as simple as some neighbors squawking about what you do with YOUR Property. I love city politics. Frustration isn't really the right word!!!:censored:

that's pretty common, why didn't you look into this 6 months ago before the building was purchased? i just went through this with my house, but i knew what i was getting into when i purchased it. my house is 70ft from a lake and i want to put an addition on the lake side. under new zoning laws there is a 100ft buffer zone to the lakes. so i had to go before the zoning board a few times but they granted me the permit i needed.

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Our new shop was purchased about 6 months ago and has been totally stripped and renovated. We now want to put an addition on and the city says we can't. Not because the addition will go out too close to the line, but because the existing building is located too closed to the property line in the back.

So now we have to go before a committee with a "lawyer drawn up" list of our intentions as well as drafted blueprint of our building addition to find out if they will allow this. They then check with all the neighbors in a 250 ft area of our property lines which will include all four blocks around our block, one of which is another business owner mad at us because their customers can't park on our property anymore since we moved in and another who is concerned that when her grandkids come to visit they won't be able to see the train go by from inside of the house with the new addition. And with all of this is a fee for the application. So after you pay the lawyer and the draftsman and the application fee you then could be turned down all because of something as simple as some neighbors squawking about what you do with YOUR Property. I love city politics. Frustration isn't really the right word!!!

Well, one redeeming thing out here...I'm in Ruch about 15 miles west. We are in a home on an acre, but discovered our lot and a few are also commercial zoned too out in the boon dock community of 2000. So the county said our setbacks are 0 feet. We can build right to the property line. Of course we wouldn't, but it's nice to know we have big flexibility.

 

[treeseer]

"look around medford a bit, the tree situation here is poor and there will be alot of large removals coming up the next few years along with some large park contracts.'

Sounds like what is poor is level of maintenance. Lots of large removals, drool drool. so many other things to do with a tree; it's hard to make the city aware and willing to pay for it but they do if they are forced to see the sense in growing their green infrastructure instead of killing it.

 

[Stumper]

I don't have timefor city contracts. Let the incompetent lowballers who have been doing it have it!

 

[sotc]

"look around medford a bit, the tree situation here is poor and there will be alot of large removals coming up the next few years along with some large park contracts.'

Sounds like what is poor is level of maintenance. Lots of large removals, drool drool. so many other things to do with a tree; it's hard to make the city aware and willing to pay for it but they do if they are forced to see the sense in growing their green infrastructure instead of killing it.

yeah there has been almost no management here, trees that are affordable to remove get removed and others dont. so we have alot of small trees and alot of very large trees but not alot of midsized trees. and like you say the city doesnt pay for much. they recently made some home owners pay for the removal and disposal of several large dead american elms, 3 of which cost 10,000 bucks, that were in the planter strip between the road and walk!

 

[jmack]

what r u saying?

"look around medford a bit, the tree situation here is poor and there will be alot of large removals coming up the next few years along with some large park contracts.'

Sounds like what is poor is level of maintenance. Lots of large removals, drool drool. so many other things to do with a tree; it's hard to make the city aware and willing to pay for it but they do if they are forced to see the sense in growing their green infrastructure instead of killing it.

guy, what ru saying, that you can see what these guys can see. seriously man dont broadstroke generalize on why these trees have to come down unless you are familar with cities and why they do things especially this guy's city. your jumping on a sterotype (drool Drool) is that for you do you like city removals? you list the isa we as arborist are out there correcting myths and sterotypes about tree and arboriculture. this dude has a problem with a city he needs help save the futuristic city stuff for the cocktail lounge at the isa credit conference in the mean time lets help the guys in the here and now bid city work

 

[M.D. Vaden]

Amazing...

I thought after all the phone calls I made, the engineering dept. would have denied my application since I listed bare bones material. I don't like putting out in front of people's noses what my bids are like, etc..

Anyhow, they approved me.

I learned from the city arborist that before my application, there was only 1 landscaper on the approved list - not great if they need competitive bids.

There are a few tree services.

The arborist did not realize how extensive the engineering depts. application was. He told me though, that now I need to apply with the parks dept. also - although it won't be as long an application.

I touched-base with the city council member I talked to after my chat with the Mayor's office lady. The council member man was very interested to hear about how involved their system is, especially mention of a single contractor in the landscape category (He said something about "russia', but I don't remember the whole phrase)

The arborist told me about a tree committee meeting today. That was worth going to. Fairly level headed group. Currently trying to get some not too extreme tree guidelines in place. They were nice enough to even ask me for some input a couple of times even though I was the audience.