How much bar can a 395 handle?

[curdy]

Hey guys. I have a 395 with a 36" bar and 36" CSM. I would like to have the capability to mill wider for the occasion I have a wider piece and want some big-bad-bodacious slabs. From the ads, sounds like the saw tops out at 50"

I just got off the phone with Granberg and they said they could sell me the the 56" rail upgrade for about $85. The 72" rail upgrade would set me back about $110. Both sound pretty good to me...(Sure I could design my own, but frankly my time is worth more than that right now). I already know that as I exceed 36", I'll need to add an auxilary oiler.

I'd like to go wider than 50" though. Can anyone chime in that can share some experience with this?

This would be an occasional type of set up. So speed isn't really a factor (of course, when does 'speed' really apply with csm-ing ). In other words, if the saw could handle it, just at a slower pace, I'm OK with that.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[carvinmark]

I run a 42" on mine with an aux oiler. I'm sure it would pull a 50" just fine.

 

[Ianab]

Also you can reduce the number of cutters on the longer chain. Go to a double skip or more, the big slabbers the guys use here have about 10 links, then 2 cutters.. repeat. Keeps the total of number of cutters you are trying to drive down.

Cheers

Ian

 

[computeruser]

I run a 42" on mine with an aux oiler. I'm sure it would pull a 50" just fine.

A couple pics of Mark's setup, taken at a GTG a while back. This setup works really well:

 

[curdy]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys! Ianab, very good point, thanks! I'm gonna run with this idea and see if I can track down some more info on just how long I can go. If I can get away with longer than 56", its worth getting the larger mill and then just having different sized bars to accommodate the log I'm milling. I would think there's no sense in running a 70"+ bar with less cutters on a log that a 56" bar with more cutters could handle.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys! Ianab, very good point, thanks! I'm gonna run with this idea and see if I can track down some more info on just how long I can go. If I can get away with longer than 56", its worth getting the larger mill and then just having different sized bars to accommodate the log I'm milling. I would think there's no sense in running a 70"+ bar with less cutters on a log that a 56" bar with more cutters could handle.

Thoughts anyone?

This is why I have 44", 66" and 72" bars. Not only are you pulling extra chain that is doing nothing more than creating friction and drag, but it's dangerous to have over 2' of bar hanging out of a log at waist height.

 

[curdy]

Some good words from Aggie that he sent in a PM:

"I believe if you set up with .325 .063 ga chain you should be fine with a 60" bar on your 395. I have used carlton k3c full comp reground to 10 deg on my 084 and it held up well. Don't rule out full comp for your 395. It has been my experience that skip ripping chain does little more than slow down cut speed and provides minimal relief from bogging. I tested a semi-skip I made from a full comp chain and it worked OK but seemed bit slower than full comp and pulled the same.

.325 ripping chain is all I run on my 066 now and with a 42" bar it cooks. I actually picked up the idea of using this chain from Rail-o-matic and he swears by it for long bars. I would use it exclusively on my 084 if it weren't for a little experience I had with shattering a 3/8" chain when I found a 60d nail. For questionable wood I use .404 as I have never had more than just a few teeth ripped off it but for good clean wood, .325 is the way to go.


Good luck."

 

[fordtruckf100]

Curdy or Rail o Matic???

What bar are you using on the Stihl 066 with the .325 chain??
Where can I get the bar and chain?
Thanks. Duane in VA.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

What bar are you using on the Stihl 066 with the .325 chain??
Where can I get the bar and chain?
Thanks. Duane in VA.

I have Oregon Powermatch (Bailey's), Stihl and GB (Stens) bars and they all perform well for me.

The chain I use is Carlton K3C .325 semi-chisel reground to ripping specs gradually with use as to not waste 1/3 of the cutter right out of the box. I get it from Stens (former GB America- 800-765-9357- ask for Norm) but they re-badge the Carlton chain and sell it as J63S-1P25 (.063 ga).

If you can find Stihl .325 RMC (micro-chisel with no bumper links) it works good as well but all I can find here lately is RM2 and RMC3. I haven't tried either of these but since they have bumper and anti-vibe links I don't want to. Chip clearance is a big issue with ripping chains and that extra safety junk just gets in the way.

 

[Jonsered2095]

Aggie [or anyone else], I have much the same question as Curdy, except I have Jonsered2095 and I figured this may benefit Curdy also (so not trying to hijack Curdy).

I am running 3/8 9tooth 0.058" guage with 22" bar and it handles well fully burried across the grain (can fell 1m+ trees). This is effectively the same size saw running a different carb with a lower peek power (8200rpm). I am considering building a logosol style mill, except with two rails which would allow cutting from both sides when necessary, doubling the slab size. This would also allow double size rounds to be cut from stumps for convoluted table tops etcetera. I know it may not be precise (depending on the engineering) but on such a large slab a little extra work would be worth it plus it could cut some fancy angles.

I was considering the GB 44" roller nose (if I can find one) as they come in 0.058" guage for a slightly narrower kerf than the 0.063". It would also be useful for felling trees over 1m+.

Two questions: will a 44" bar bend much if used for a horizontal cut making the meeting of he two cuts difficult? And how does .325" compare with 3/8 for kerf size?

Any advice/ideas appreciated. Hope this post helps Curdy.

Note: I would like to keep the same chain for each bar (I have a 10tooth sprocket I will pair up with a 16" bar also for cutting cants).

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Aggie [or anyone else], I have much the same question as Curdy, except I have Jonsered2095 and I figured this may benefit Curdy also (so not trying to hijack Curdy).

I am running 3/8 9tooth 0.058" guage with 22" bar and it handles well fully burried across the grain (can fell 1m+ trees). This is effectively the same size saw running a different carb with a lower peek power (8200rpm). I am considering building a logosol style mill, except with two rails which would allow cutting from both sides when necessary, doubling the slab size. This would also allow double size rounds to be cut from stumps for convoluted table tops etcetera. I know it may not be precise (depending on the engineering) but on such a large slab a little extra work would be worth it plus it could cut some fancy angles.

Sounds like a fun project.

I was considering the GB 44" roller nose (if I can find one) as they come in 0.058" guage for a slightly narrower kerf than the 0.063". It would also be useful for felling trees over 1m+.

Many chains have the same chassis and kerf width regardless of the bar grove width they're made for. If you compare .063 and .050 Stihl chain side by side, the only difference is the tang on the drive link is stamped down to .050 but in between the rivets it's still .063. I think Bailey's ripping chain is the same way but I'm not positive.

Two questions: will a 44" bar bend much if used for a horizontal cut making the meeting of he two cuts difficult? And how does .325" compare with 3/8 for kerf size?

I just went out to the shop and clamped my 44" GB bar to my workbench like it would be mounted in a mill you described. The bar tip was 1" lower than the bench top but this can be compensated for buy raising the angle of the power head. What can't be compensated for without intermediate supports is the 1/8" bow in the bar (measured in the middle of the bar using a 4' straight edge). That will have to be a judgment call on your part whether or not it's acceptable.

In my ripping chain tests I measured an average of 3/8" kerf for 3/8" and 5/16" kerf for .325 chain. This may not sound like much but it does make a big difference in the volume of sawdust you produce. With that saw .325 is the way to go IMO. Others here will recommend 3/8" low pro (.365) but I've never used it myself.

Any advice/ideas appreciated. Hope this post helps Curdy.

Note: I would like to keep the same chain for each bar (I have a 10tooth sprocket I will pair up with a 16" bar also for cutting cants).

Keeping chains the same will help a lot. I have tested so many different types of chains that I get confused as to which is which. I've settled on what I want now and the others will go away once they are used up.

 

[Jonsered2095]

Sounds like a fun project.

Nice idea I think, although it sounds like I need to think on it some more!

I just went out to the shop and clamped my 44" GB bar to my workbench like it would be mounted in a mill you described. The bar tip was 1" lower than the bench top but this can be compensated for buy raising the angle of the power head. What can't be compensated for without intermediate supports is the 1/8" bow in the bar (measured in the middle of the bar using a 4' straight edge). That will have to be a judgment call on your part whether or not it's acceptable.

Thanks for that Aggie!

I was hoping this length bar would be stiffer than that, still a 1/8" bow is not bad, but now you have enlightened me I can just imagine an unsupported bar tip burried in the cut will probably twist and dive one way or the other, particularly if the chain is not perfectly sharpened or if the grain changes. That would pose a big problem!

I may simply have to support the bar. A 36"+ cut with a 44" bar is still significant. I really want up to a 2m+ cut for stumps though, I could do this vertically like a stack cutter with an unsupported bar tip, and perhaps get a longer bar still (supported bar tip) when or if I really need it for milling.

This brings us full circle: if I must support the bar, just how long in your [or anybody's] opinion do you think my saw (or Curdy's) could handle? I do have the ability to drop to a 7tooth sprocket for more gearing, which is aproximately the equivalent of a 6tooth on a Stihl or Husqy. I have raised the gearing from 7 to 8 to 9tooth, and the bigger the sprocket the more it seems to like it!

Appreciated.

 

[fordtruckf100]

aggiewoodbutchr

What sprocket would be good for the 066 .325. I'm planning on
running a 36" bar. Thanks.
Duane in VA.

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

Nice idea I think, although it sounds like I need to think on it some more!



Thanks for that Aggie!

I was hoping this length bar would be stiffer than that, still a 1/8" bow is not bad, but now you have enlightened me I can just imagine an unsupported bar tip burried in the cut will probably twist and dive one way or the other, particularly if the chain is not perfectly sharpened or if the grain changes. That would pose a big problem!

I may simply have to support the bar. A 36"+ cut with a 44" bar is still significant. I really want up to a 2m+ cut for stumps though, I could do this vertically like a stack cutter with an unsupported bar tip, and perhaps get a longer bar still (supported bar tip) when or if I really need it for milling.

This brings us full circle: if I must support the bar, just how long in your [or anybody's] opinion do you think my saw (or Curdy's) could handle? I do have the ability to drop to a 7tooth sprocket for more gearing, which is aproximately the equivalent of a 6tooth on a Stihl or Husqy. I have raised the gearing from 7 to 8 to 9tooth, and the bigger the sprocket the more it seems to like it!

Appreciated.

The longest I have ran on my 066 is 42". Rail-o-matic mentioned in the past he had used up to 50" on an 066 but with the right chain and some patience I believe you could run a longer bar.

What sprocket would be good for the 066 .325. I'm planning on
running a 36" bar. Thanks.
Duane in VA.

I run 9 on mine.

 

[Jonsered2095]

Thanks Aggie, 42-44" sounds like the sweet spot and should leave a little power in reserve.

 

[SawTroll]

.... If you can find Stihl .325 RMC (micro-chisel with no bumper links) it works good as well but all I can find here lately is RM2 and RMC3. I haven't tried either of these but since they have bumper and anti-vibe links I don't want to. Chip clearance is a big issue with ripping chains and that extra safety junk just gets in the way.

I see your point, but the RMC has the same anti-vibe chassis as the RMC3. The culpit with the RMC3 is the ramps in front of the rakers, not the anti-vibe chassis.......

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

I see your point, but the RMC has the same anti-vibe chassis as the RMC3. The culpit with the RMC3 is the ramps in front of the rakers, not the anti-vibe chassis.......

oops, thanks for pointing that out. I was typing faster than my brain was working.

That should have been .325 RM (regular micro-chisel). As you said, RMC is the newer anti-vibe and RMC3 is the same as the old RM2 (bumper link). Unfortunately, the newest Stihl catalogs have RM only available in 3/8" unlike past ones and I was unsuccessful in finding a local dealer with old RM in stock. I gave up and ordered some Carlton chain.

 

[fordtruckf100]

What about the Woodsman Pro 23RC? You can get this at Bailey's in .325.
I've used the Woodsman Pro 3/8 and it does quite well. Don't know about
the 23RC chain?? Any thoughts. Duane in VA.

Here's the item #. It's only .18 per link. Very economical.

WoodsmanPRO 23RC per Drive Link
Item No: WP325 23RC $0.18
Click Here

Drive Link of 23RC Chain Saw Chain (.325 x .063)

 

[aggiewoodbutchr]

What about the Woodsman Pro 23RC? You can get this at Bailey's in .325.
I've used the Woodsman Pro 3/8 and it does quite well. Don't know about
the 23RC chain?? Any thoughts. Duane in VA.

Here's the item #. It's only .18 per link. Very economical.

WoodsmanPRO 23RC per Drive Link
Item No: WP325 23RC $0.18
Click Here

Drive Link of 23RC Chain Saw Chain (.325 x .063)

Chisel chain doesn't make very good ripping chain because it dulls too fast. It would initially cut like crazy but only for a short time.

 

[1953greg]

aggie

Sounds like a fun project.

Many chains have the same chassis and kerf width regardless of the bar grove width they're made for. If you compare .063 and .050 Stihl chain side by side, the only difference is the tang on the drive link is stamped down to .050 but in between the rivets it's still .063. I think Bailey's ripping chain is the same way but I'm not positive.

I just went out to the shop and clamped my 44" GB bar to my workbench like it would be mounted in a mill you described. The bar tip was 1" lower than the bench top but this can be compensated for buy raising the angle of the power head. What can't be compensated for without intermediate supports is the 1/8" bow in the bar (measured in the middle of the bar using a 4' straight edge). That will have to be a judgment call on your part whether or not it's acceptable.

In my ripping chain tests I measured an average of 3/8" kerf for 3/8" and 5/16" kerf for .325 chain. This may not sound like much but it does make a big difference in the volume of sawdust you produce. With that saw .325 is the way to go IMO. Others here will recommend 3/8" low pro (.365) but I've never used it myself.

Keeping chains the same will help a lot. I have tested so many different types of chains that I get confused as to which is which. I've settled on what I want now and the others will go away once they are used up.

"What can't be compensated for without intermediate supports is the 1/8" bow in the bar (measured in the middle of the bar using a 4' straight edge)."

i also notice this same problem on 42" bar 36" mill. solution was to take a tarp strap and pull the saw handle upward toward the top of the depth/thickness adjustment bar. dosent take much and is easily adjusted for correct tension for bar strightness. its the weight of the powerhead that causes the bow.

also, aggie, where did you find a long bar for 066 mount and the .325 chain?

i appreciate your sharing of pics and info.