How My Stihl Dealer Treated Me

[bvaught]

I am probably too worried about this issue but I would love to hear comments. A month or so ago I bought an MS 440 from my local stihl dealer. Right after I made the buying decision the dealer showed me into his shop to fill up the saw with fuel and bar oil. Then he "showed me" how to operate the saw. To my horror he cranked up my brand new saw and "let her rip" wide open for a few minutes as he held the saw on the concrete floor. It scratched the paint off the handle at the bottom, no big deal, but it was brand new.

I kept my disgust silent. My main worry was that he was revving the pi$$ out of my cold new engine. I could just see the scoring eating up my new piston and cylinder. He went on to tell me that the only way to run chainsaws is to open the throttle wide open and not to baby it. I agree most of the time, but a saw should be warmed up before going balls to the wall.

I removed the muffler and inspected the brand new piston and cylinder. The piston (what I could see of it) looked fine with no signs of scoring, however the cylinder had streaks and most of the honing marks were gone.

 

[SIRCHOPALOT]

If it would have been me, he would have given me back my money. and he would have never seen me again.

 

[Lawn Masters]

If it would have been me, he would have given me back my money. and he would have never seen me again.

me too.

 

[clearance]

I would have asked for another saw. I heard of a dealer doing this to a new 385xp here. I bought a ms200 from him, his mechanic fired it up for a couple of seconds to make sure it worked and shut it down. The dealer sells saws, he is a salesmen, not a faller or a treeguy. What if you were buying a new car or truck and the salesman did that? Mechanics here, correct me if I'm wrong but no engine should be revved at full throttle unless under load.

 

[TonyM]

WOT no load for more than a few seconds to adjust the carb cannot be a good thing IMO, expecially on a brand new engine.

 

[SIRCHOPALOT]

Mechanics here, correct me if I'm wrong but no engine should be revved at full throttle unless under load.

probably not the best idea. especially a new one that hasn't been broken in. the worst is probably on the crank. It was probably begging for mercy. Imagine if your car salesman did that to your brand new corvette! bad things would happen to him

 

[Ekka]

Mechanics here, correct me if I'm wrong but no engine should be revved at full throttle unless under load.

I would agree in most cases but ... how else do you tune these saws? Even if using a rev counter to set the peak rpm at the rich side (counter clockwise screw turn) of the maximum revs you have to do it flat out with no load.

A Stihl tech showed me if no tacho that you wind the H screw out one complete turn from fully closed, find the peak rpm, and wind out 1/4 turn further to get the slightly rich correct rpm.

But I would suggest you do this with a warm/hot saw and don't take too long.

However what that sales guy did in that shop is bad and happens a lot, when I bought one of my saws from a mower shop the idiot did exactly the same. They assume you're just another dumb laborer or something.

 

[JimL]

from what I have heard it your supposed to do this to a new one, no idea why or if true though.. heard it from several pretty reliable sources.
I let them idle for 4 or 5 minutes then give them some gas..

 

[sedanman]

Newer Stihls have a smooth bore with almost no visible hone marks. Other than running the saw on the ground and rubbing the paint, no harm will come to this saw. You should have voiced your concerns on the spot.

 

[chainsawworld]

i do not believe any harm was done internally either. would i have done that? no!! when i sell a new saw,or any saw that has been sitting around, i let them idle for a short period of time. i slowly bring them up to full throttle. then i give the saw a few quick cracks to make sure the low idle is out far enough so the saw does not hesitate. i then let the saw idle again for 1 minute. after that minute, i tilt the saw forward to make sure there is no gas building up in the intake manifold, meaning the low jet it too far out. if it is, the saw will stall due to flooding.
as far as running on the cement floor? saws hardly ever come in contact with cement floors around here. not good for them. i used to go to a local junk yard and cut the mud flaps off old trucks and buses to set saws on.
i forgot to mention earlier. i show everyone the proper starting proceedure. i think i even gave you the run down paul. i emphasize the use of the decompression valve. it is for the saw not the operator. marty

 

[Marky Mark]

Sounds to me you have a dealer that knows what he's doing. Consider yourself lucky. Run the tar out of that saw with 32-1 mix you'll be fine.

 

[MarylandGuy]

I agree with the general consensus, I doubt the saw was hurt. But I wouldn't have done it. And I think I would have asked for a new saw.

I don't have a lot of experience with rebuilding saws, but I have changed the piston and rings quite often in my race bikes. The general break-in procedure that I used was to start the motorcycle, let it idle for a few minutes, and then start revving it slowly. Stop the motor, let it cool and then repeat the last steps, but this time revving a little higher. Then I would ride it only half throttle for at least 10 or fifteen minutes, all the while giving it short bursts of full throttle. After that it should be fine provided you allowed the motor to come up to operating temperature.

I know it sounds tedious, especially since the bike had to be rebuilt every four to six weeks. But I never had engine failure during a race.

Of course there was that time I put the piston in backwards. I think I had consumed a little too much beer that Saturday night before the race. I still can't live that one down with my buddies.

 

[NevadaWalrus]

"Let her rip wide open for a few minutes", that's excessive. However, maximum rpm ratings for a saw are no load ratings. It should be done with correct bar and chain installed and held wide open for no more then a few seconds without letting it come down for a bit but running a new saw at full throttle for a few seconds is completely proper. Whereas I have had reps demostrate this without warming them up I do feel better about doing so before holding them open for any amount of time.

Your dealer has a problem with time held wide open but it sounds otherwise that he follows proper proceedures. He certainly had no issues with walking you through his shop and showing you what was being done, he didn't try to hide anything. My question for the buyer is this. Hearing your new saw being held wide open for even just a few seconds "can" almost feel like forever when you're wrongly thinking it shouldn't be done at all. Are you sure a "few minutes" was a true time or did it just seem that way? Your dealer seems to be on the ball in every other respect and it doesn't sound right that he would be so off in this one important regard.

 

[jimbo1490]

He went on to tell me that the only way to run chainsaws is to open the throttle wide open and not to baby it.

Not always true. More accurate to say the saw should be operated at peak RPM whenever cutting wood. That will not always be full throttle. You are not always taking a full cut with a saw. In those cases you can get to peak RPM with something less than full throttle. I you go WOT anyway, the saw may start 4 stroking (if it's tuned right) and what's the point in that? Just back off the throttle a bit.

Jimbo

 

[bvaught]

NevadaWalrus you are correct, it did seem like many minutes perhaps an hour as I was worried to death about my new saw. Objectively I think it was probably no more than 30 seconds. He was demonstrating the oiler slinging oil onto the floor.

I should have voiced my concerns then, but didnt want to cause a confrontation. Hopefully the saw isnt hurt. The way I use it, it should last a lifetime anyway.

 

[sedanman]

Jimbo, all cuts full throttle all the time. The mixture is adjusted at idle and full throttle and cannot be guaranteed anywhere in between.

 

[bigair]

I really don't think it will hurt. We have used this method on dirtbikes for years. I can't see why a chainsaw should be any different. Link to engine break in method: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Please note this method is for four strokes but will apply to two strokes as well.

 

[Frans]

I let them idle for 4 or 5 minutes then give them some gas..

What the hell are you talking about?? Maybe a big bore diesel engine?
Were talking chainsaws here, 4-5 minutes of idleing makes no sense whatsoever, must be a typo or something.
Frans

 

[jimbo1490]

The break in 'secret' is actually old news. I remember rebuilding a chevy 327 back in the early 80's. I use a Sealed Power engine kit. Chrome rings were selected. The break-in instructions were something to the effect that after establishing correct timing and idle settings, the vehicle should be driven under several short heavy load passes such as hard acceleration with a short pause between passes. Then initial breakin was said to be complete.

Modern rings all use some degree of 'gas porting' where combustion pressue is intentionally directed to the area in back of the ring forcing it harder against the cylinder wall. Thus operating the engine under load helps seat the ring more quickly and thoroughly. Under lighter loads, excessive combustion gases blowing by the unseated rings may delay or perhaps permanently degrade the quality of the ring seating.

Jimbo

 

[Ekka]

I really don't think it will hurt. We have used this method on dirtbikes for years. I can't see why a chainsaw should be any different. Link to engine break in method: http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm
Please note this method is for four strokes but will apply to two strokes as well.

That's an excellent site and perfectly true. Running a new saw, cold, at full revs with no load is stupid and defies any logic.