How screwed am I?

[kcurbanloggers]

I rented a d6 dozer to clear some land. It was mostly small brush and some stumps. After a couple hours I noticed the blade was moving back and forth a little more than it should. I got out and saw that one of the rams that angles that blade right and left had broken. I’ll attach pictures below. What am Looking at as far as repairs? How much should I plan to spend to fix this? I’m really hoping this is not catastrophic. Thanks guys.


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[johninky]

I shouldn't respond because what do I know about dozers but looks to me the ram just needs replaced.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

Should be an easy fix. Take it off and weld it mild steel. The ram looks like it was chromed rather than stainless. If you could be blamed could get expensive to replace. Thanks

 

[kcurbanloggers]

Should be an easy fix. Take it off and weld it mild steel. The ram looks like it was chromed rather than stainless. If you could be blamed could get expensive to replace. Thanks

Well it’s a rental so not mine to weld on. If they’re willing to weld it then maybe it won’t brake the bank. Do you have a guess as to how much a new ram is, Incase it is shot after all.


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[northmanlogging]

Likely a defect, rental shop should take care of it, if they dont have, have it welded.

Though the rod looks bent? In which case new cylinder required

The ends are all welded on anyways do no use freaking out about it.

 

[Gologit]

Call the guys you rented it from. In your rental agreement it should spell out whether or not you're on the hook for repairs.

Whatever you do, don't weld on it without the permission of whoever rented it to you.

 

[Ted Jenkins]

I have a friend that rented. He returned back to the rental agency and offered to pay repairs. They said that they would let him know. Then he got a letter stating that he was careless with the equipment and he declined insurance. So he got billed for $17,000. I asked him for the contract as it turned out the equipment was five years old so with depreciation and typical wear it had to be less. I told him I would write a letter on his behalf stating such. I offered $5000 and they said they would take $7,000. So it was done. Some companies take advantage of customers. I would try to get a new inner rod and give it back. The rod is probably 2 or 3k but if they will be reasonable or weld it and not bring it up. Thanks

 

[northmanlogging]

The inner piston was removable on every one I've had apart, and the rods were replaceable. Here's a video showing that.

You would never weld it back as strong as it was and that's the quickest way to ruin the resale of a used machine.

Lets pretend for a minute that I didn't just retire from machining.

And that I haven't welded or rebuilt or welded and rebuilt several pistons and cylinders.

The rod ends are welded or threaded. That one was welded, poorly, but welded.

Take it to a hydraulics shop and they will build you a new piston, that will be welded together, and certainly not for more then a few hundred. Or any competent welder can do the job in a few hours, bevel the ends, preheat, weld it together, done.

Lets also pretend that anyone smart enough to know what they are looking for know **** gets broke on the business ends of heavy equipment, blades, cylinders etc, as long as the important stuff like the frame isn't cobbled together its going to be fine.

Granted its a rental, however the rust on the bottom of the break in the top picture indicate its been broke for awhile. So Before you go welding on someone elses stuff make damn sure its ok with them.

 

[northmanlogging]

bent rod, probably bent cylinder too. Especially if its been used while bent. or at best scored cylinder sides, and a roached gland.

Bet yer paycheck if it was my machine being rented it would be a new cylinder, or a full certified rebuild, but then I don't rent machines for a reason.

 

[kcurbanloggers]

Lets pretend for a minute that I didn't just retire from machining.

And that I haven't welded or rebuilt or welded and rebuilt several pistons and cylinders.

The rod ends are welded or threaded. That one was welded, poorly, but welded.

Take it to a hydraulics shop and they will build you a new piston, that will be welded together, and certainly not for more then a few hundred. Or any competent welder can do the job in a few hours, bevel the ends, preheat, weld it together, done.

Lets also pretend that anyone smart enough to know what they are looking for know **** gets broke on the business ends of heavy equipment, blades, cylinders etc, as long as the important stuff like the frame isn't cobbled together its going to be fine.

Granted its a rental, however the rust on the bottom of the break in the top picture indicate its been broke for awhile. So Before you go welding on someone elses stuff make damn sure its ok with them.

The rental guys will want to fix it themselves. That part isn’t up for negotiation. I opted in on the insurance, but they said the insurance was only for “catastrophic” failure— like the whole machine needs replacing. I don’t think one cylinder falls under catastrophic failure. They also said I am liable for all damages, but then again, that wouldn’t have broken under normal operation. Perhaps they will aim to keep my business rather than have me shell out. Any idea what these cylinders run? Thanks


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[northmanlogging]

The rental guys will want to fix it themselves. That part isn’t up for negotiation. I opted in on the insurance, but they said the insurance was only for “catastrophic” failure— like the whole machine needs replacing. I don’t think one cylinder falls under catastrophic failure. They also said I am liable for all damages, but then again, that wouldn’t have broken under normal operation. Perhaps they will aim to keep my business rather than have me shell out. Any idea what these cylinders run? Thanks


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Depends who they talk too, dealer parts are not cheap, hydraulic supply repair type shops lookin likely 1k because of the funky ball end.

Stealership could likely cost 3 times that.

 

[northmanlogging]

Yep, if it's bent bad enough to cause any metal to metal contact in the barrel while in use, it's toast. Only way you can make that call, is to take it apart for a look inside.
IMHO, this would have never broken as it did during the straight forward and backwards motion it's designed for. I'll bet something (stump, rock, ect.) got wedged somehow that put upward pressure against the rod while it was extended, hard enough to snap the end off. If---------there is a bow in the rod, it certainly isn't much, and if what I'm thinking is correct, the rod could probably be replaced, which would most likely save someone some money, without compromising the quality or appearance of the dozer in any way.
I never said this couldn't be welded I just said that I, wouldn't want it welded.
From what I can see of this machine, it's a nice late model dozer. If the owner starts patching up things on this machine now, he'll pay dearly when the time comes to sell.

The point you seem to be missing is that the original part was likely already welded, properly rewelded would be just as strong or really, stronger then original.

Any half awake welder could pull it off and you would never know it was welded.

 

[Knobby57]

Cylinders do break . It’s just how it is . It’s very possible buy what the back of the blade looks like is the piston got wedges behind the blade . I would not trust flush welding the end back on .the weld on that setup Is just to hold the rod in the hole of the end ring . It will never hold up to lateral force without putting many beads around and that . It’s likely the weld that was put on to begin with was just to hot and hardened the metal making it brital . Replace the piston and end parts would be about 350$ and maybe 2.5 hours labor for monitoring service . Dozers are ment to push slow ,not ram if is doesn’t move .

 

[northmanlogging]

Lets just ignore for a minute the physics of properly welded products.

And ask the real question

Where's the Grease?

Ball joint that is broke of is actually rusty, center pivot is too? Rental shop can't even grease the damn machine and they wan't the OP to pay for a broken rod end?

 

[Metalmanpro]

Cylinder rods are usually made from something like 1045 case hardened chromed steel rod. Usually preheating, welding hot, and post heating will lessen the temperature gradient and keep the martensite crystal structure from forming. (Hard and brittle) If everything else about the cylinder is ok, that rod can be replaced or chamfered good and welded.

 

[grizz55chev]

Weld it , damn it!

 

[kcurbanloggers]

Lets just ignore for a minute the physics of properly welded products.

And ask the real question

Where's the Grease?

Ball joint that is broke of is actually rusty, center pivot is too? Rental shop can't even grease the damn machine and they wan't the OP to pay for a broken rod end?

I thought that was odd. Especially considering the cylinder on the right side had tons of grease and no rust. Seems like a case of neglect to me. I might have to hold out on them.


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[Skeans]

Lets just ignore for a minute the physics of properly welded products.

And ask the real question

Where's the Grease?

Ball joint that is broke of is actually rusty, center pivot is too? Rental shop can't even grease the damn machine and they wan't the OP to pay for a broken rod end?

If it's like my D4H that rod end isn't grease able, we've had that same thing happen once new barrel, rod, ends reuse our piston was around 2k with a weeks turn around this last summer.

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[kcurbanloggers]

If it's like my D4H that rod end isn't grease able, we've had that same thing happen once new barrel, rod, ends reuse our piston was around 2k with a weeks turn around this last summer.

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Except there was plenty of grease on piston on the right side.



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[northmanlogging]

Cylinder rods are usually made from something like 1045 case hardened chromed steel rod. Usually preheating, welding hot, and post heating will lessen the temperature gradient and keep the martensite crystal structure from forming. (Hard and brittle) If everything else about the cylinder is ok, that rod can be replaced or chamfered good and welded.

1045 is fully hardenable steel, The chrome plating does more then case hardening will ever do, Preheat 1045, weld it, cool slowly done, Case hardening is old timey tech now, only used on firearms (for color) and cheap tooling.

If it's like my D4H that rod end isn't grease able, we've had that same thing happen once new barrel, rod, ends reuse our piston was around 2k with a weeks turn around this last summer.

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Except that grease zerk plainly visible in the middle pic.