How Sharp?

[stihlrookie]

I have seen a few threads in the past week regarding sharpening saw chain and accessories, deep subject. Shops charge an exorbant amount for a task that takes mere minutes when done correctly. Most chainsaw buyers have no idea how to sharpen a chain properly, myself included when I bought my saw. So whats a guy to do?
I googled 'chainsaw sharpening'. I read instructions on how to do it. I watched a bunch of videos on how to sharpen chain. I asked my dad to show me how to hand file a chain, he is 73 and hard of hearing from running chainsaws with no ear pro most of his life. He told me how to do it, I watched him do it, I tried sharpening, he scolded me for not doing it correctly, we put the saw away.
I bought one of those nifty little orange pouches for 30 bucks, oh I guess it had a couple files in it, couple pieces of metal they call "guides" and some tiny wooden handles I suppose is what they were. So I use the guide, I follow all directions that I read, have been told, watched, and so on. Even check and file the raker/depth gauge whatever you want to callums. Chain looks sharp. Feels razor sharp too. Must be sharp. Lets put it to some wood. Dry, seasoned western larch, fairly soft wood, harder than pine though, nothing but tiny chips and dust when the saw hits it. Tiny chips and dust usually indicate dull chain right? The saw seems to go through the wood quickly but the dust and tiny chips are throwing me.
I am trying to figure out why I can't seem to get my chains back to near factory sharp. My angles appear to be good, cutters are clean looking, no ragged edges. So thats where I am at. Any tips or hints, something I may be missing? I will continue to sharpen my own chains and hopefully get better at it but until then, let the dust fly.

 

[mdavlee]

Can you take a picture of a cutter? It sounds like the rakers are too high or there's not enough hook on the cutter.

 

[Scooterbum]

Practice practice and practice. Not being smart it just won't happen over night.You'll realize one day that ya' just found the right feel for it.

One thing I do when I sharpen a new chain for the first time is knock the rakers down to .030.Then I hit the rakers every second filing after that.

Forget the same strokes for each tooth mess that most are told.Sharpen till ya' feel the file gliding smooth through the tooth.Then go to the next and don't get in a hurry.

 

[jus2fat]

You must be doing something "not right" and I can't tell you what it is..??

I would recommend the Granberg File-N-Joint mount on bar guide to learn the basics...

It's super well made (all metal) and been in production for about 50 years.
(can't last that long if it doesn't do well)

Price is reasonable and most everyone starting to sharpen chains will learn from it.
(Also see the video at the following link)

Bailey's - Granberg File-N-Joint Precision Filing Guide

J2F

 

[Scooterbum]

Shops charge an exorbant amount for a task that takes mere minutes

Slow down if it's taking you a mere minutes.I'll spend a good 10 minutes on a chain give or take.

 

[Fish]

Just running a file here,there, this way don't cut it, as you could be putting pressure downward, upward, wrong file size, etc...

But in general, look at the edge, if you can see it, or any part of it {corner}, then it is dull. If you can see the point on a full chisel, then you need to get the damage out.

 

[Fish]

But the main point is, get a good light, and look closely at the cutters, reread the threads to know what you are trying to achieve, then go at it again, with the light on the work and see what you are doing.

 

[bplust]

Slow down if it's taking you a mere minutes.I'll spend a good 10 minutes on a chain give or take.

Definite +1 on that. And mere minutes most likely involves a grinder, and if you've ever owned one, new wheels are not cheap.

 

[Scooterbum]

Definite +1 on that. And mere minutes most likely involves a grinder, and if you've ever owned one, new wheels are not cheap.

I still take awhile on the grinder otherwise I get blue cutters.

 

[Brian VT]

I like the Granberg jigs, but if you don't know how to file then you're not going to know how to set it up correctly.
I think the Husqvarna roller guides are hard to beat for the inexperienced (and pretty darn good for anyone else).

 

[stihlrookie]

Worked on a 20" loop of Stihl RSF this afternoon. New chain, dipped it in the dirt last time I was out cutting, could see just a bit of ragged edge on 5 or 6 cutters on one side of the chain. I used a brand new file as well, it sure felt good going through. 30 degree on the cutter, follow the witness mark, 10 degrees upward slant. Nice sunny afternoon so I had plenty of light. I did 3 licks on all cutters, 2 with moderate pressure for filing and the final stroke just more of a honing stroke. I concentrated on ensuring even pressure, correct angles and making sure the file is cutting into the tooth, not down or up. Took me about 15 minutes, I took a single pass on the rakers as well. It usually takes me about 10 minutes for just the cutters but I was taking it a little slower today. Looks like a nice sharp chain, like I said, razor sharp. Tryed it on a fairly green piece of maple and had a few chips but mostly a pile of dust. I will see if I can get a pic of the chain.

 

[slowp]

You are cutting dead and dry wood. Chips and sawdust are normal on our softwoods.

Try it in some green wood. You should get the chips and chunks that sting your face. That's a sharp chain.

Oops, read your last post. Practice should help.

 

[django]

Can you take a picture of a cutter? It sounds like the rakers are too high or there's not enough hook on the cutter.

Look here first. Check your depth gauges by laying a straight edge across two or more cutters with the chain on the straight part of the bar, If you can't pass at least an .020" shim under the straight edge you have to lower the gauges. There are simple to use guides/gauges/files for this task at any saw dealer. If you are into filing, you need to have this.

Once you are accomplished, you can file an 18" chain to very acceptable sharpness in 2-3 minutes, (cutters only) with the saw in a vise. One key element is pressure. Wear gloves.
Put pressure on the cutter as you are shaprening, enough to where you feel the file really cutting the metal. Go slow. Too light and too fast dull the file quickly and do not get the job done.
You should see metal rolling out of the tooth. Lastly, keep the file clean. Do not let it plug.

 

[indiansprings]

Patience grasshopper! It takes time and lots of practice to get it down. Make sure your using the right size file for the chain. Good lighting is a must, I almost always have my bar in a vice so it is rock solid.
There is an excellent thread on here by Bob ? forgot his user name, it shows the "glint" area on top of the tooth that you file until you get to that glint line. It's a good thread, I've been doing it over 30 years and I can remember when my dad first started teaching me it seemed like it took me forever. Now I'm having the same issue teaching one of my sons, one picked it up immediately, one is hit and miss.

Not all wood will throw 3/8-1/2" chips, I've had some wood throw much finer chips even when razor sharp, I'd recommend that you get you a carlton file o plate. I sharpen quite a few chains for other people, most have tried themselves, I see all kinds of angles, put the most common thing is most people rakers height is either never taken down or taken too far down, a file-o-plate is a good tool for beginner. Main thing is don't give up, it'll just hit you one day, from then on it's like riding a bike.

 

[django]

Patience grasshopper! It takes time and lots of practice to get it down. Make sure your using the right size file for the chain. Good lighting is a must, I almost always have my bar in a vice so it is rock solid.
There is an excellent thread on here by Bob ? forgot his user name, it shows the "glint" area on top of the tooth that you file until you get to that glint line. It's a good thread, I've been doing it over 30 years and I can remember when my dad first started teaching me it seemed like it took me forever. Now I'm having the same issue teaching one of my sons, one picked it up immediately, one is hit and miss.

Not all wood will throw 3/8-1/2" chips, I've had some wood throw much finer chips even when razor sharp, I'd recommend that you get you a carlton file o plate. I sharpen quite a few chains for other people, most have tried themselves, I see all kinds of angles, put the most common thing is most people rakers height is either never taken down or taken too far down, a file-o-plate is a good tool for beginner. Main thing is don't give up, it'll just hit you one day, from then on it's like riding a bike.

Here is the link for the "Glint" spoken of.http://www.arboristsite.com/chainsaw/109475.htm
It is an awesome thread. Wonderful pictures. I had not seen it before, and I really applaud the guy for doing it. You must see this.

 

[stihlrookie]

Thanks everyone for the support and advice. I will master this yet.

View attachment 209551View attachment 209552View attachment 209553

 

[In The Weeds]

Look at it and feel it with your fingers for sharpness, thats how I do it :msp_smile:.

 

[Oldtimer]

Just about impossible to put "how" into words. But here's my 2 cents.

Follow the guide line on the tooth, try to match it.

You can adjust the angle of the tooth not only by angling the file forwards and backwards, but ALSO by angling the file up and down..You can almost always match the file guide line front to back, so when the tooth still isn't coming out as a match try angling the file up or down some.

If you are filing into the chain link, you need to file more perpendicular to the top of the bar.

I personally use SHORT file strokes as opposed to using the entire length of the file on each stroke. Short strokes are far easier to control; your angles will benefit. When that section of file gets dull, I use another part. I can make a file last nearly an entire chain.

When you look at the chain to check how the thing looks, look at it from the tip towards the sawhead. A totally different view shows the mistakes a lot better.

 

[mdavlee]

The pictures look pretty good on the cutters. It's hard to judge the rakers by a picture but they do look a little high.

 

[Oldtimer]

You have the angle a little more straight across than the guide line, but not enough to matter.
It will work better in pine that way IMO, and not quite so well as that in hardwood.
I'd say take the rakers down 2 swipes and re-test. The tooth looks fine to me.