How Sharp?

[indiansprings]

It doesn't look that bad to me, looks like the rakers are high and need took down, angle looks pretty good, I like a little deeper gullet, but he's sure on the right track, take those rakers down and you'll find your getting where you need to be.

 

[zogger]

Depth gauge is too high and looks to me you are flinching at the last second and wiggling your file in and it rounds the edge a little. The latter hard to say but I certainly think I see a rounding there, else it would be uniform shine/no shine, and it isn't. Your "up" angle is too steep as well.

If you have a new perfect chain, try this..close your eyes and slide a clapped out real dull file through the cutter. Feel what ya need.

Freehand filing is eyeballs and feel, I can't see all that well when doing it (not anymore), so it is mostly the stevie wonder method, the "feel" of it.

 

[django]

From Oldtimer:

"I personally use SHORT file strokes as opposed to using the entire length of the file on each stroke. Short strokes are far easier to control; your angles will benefit. When that section of file gets dull, I use another part. I can make a file last nearly an entire chain."

Whoa there, a file should last a whole lot longer than that. I get 4-5 sharpenings of chains that are on average, 40-80 drive links. 7/32" files, generally Sandvik or Pferd.
Not trying to bust your chops, but that caught my eye, and I don't want the guy to think he should be wearing out the file in one chain or he is doing something wrong. And i totally disagree with the short stroke suggestion, but to each his own, i guess.

 

[stihlrookie]

Well don't laugh but as I said I used a new file today. I have used that file for 2 years on a number of chains, it was still pulling metal off. The rakers I did just the once and took a small amount off, could they have been high to start with? I will try to short stroke the next time, stop an inch short of the end of the file, I think I can feel a little wiggle right at the end. I will see if I can get after it tomorrow and take some more pics. Thanks all.

 

[mdavlee]

I think he meant the file will last almost as long as the chain in useful life. With save edge files I don't know exactly how many sharpenings I get on a file but it seems like quite a few.

 

[mtngun]

Rakers too high, not enough hook.

This is what it should look like.

More than you wanted to know about filing rakers. http://www.arboristsite.com/chain-sharpening/114624.htm

 

[DarkTimber]

Your rakers could have been a little high right out of the box, pays to check after the first sharpening.

 

[django]

I think he meant the file will last almost as long as the chain in useful life. With save edge files I don't know exactly how many sharpenings I get on a file but it seems like quite a few.

Yup, that would make a lot more sense.

I have however, seen guys try to file that don't have much experience, ( NOT suggesting that the man doesn't know how to file, I'm sure he's good at it, don't flame me and they "skate" the file through the cutter, and dull the file really quickly. As to the comment from someone else about filing by feel because they can't see well, I have the same issue being 46 now and having the old lookers betray me. Very frustrating.
I now carry a set of $6.00 1.5X magnifiers from Dollar General to the woods. Makes all the difference when i don't have the "feel" that day, or have hit fence in the wood etc... and really taken the corners off.

 

[stihlrookie]

I have been using the guides from Stihl I spoke of earlier, including the raker gauge. After filing as I did, 2 moderate strokes and 1 very light, I used the raker gauge. The rakers that I checked, probably 10-12, were all just below the surface of the gauge, I proceeded to give the rakers a single stroke with my flat file, hence the flattening at the top of the raker visible in the pic. I can see now that I need to blend that bit rather than have the hard transition. The hook however, I don't quite understand how I can increase that using the guide that I have. Would I adjust my in and out angle? Or the up and down angle? I may need to modify the Stihl guide to allow the file to ride a bit lower or just give up on the guide altogether, it really seems to block alot of the view of the tooth. I think I have a near shot loop of RMC3 that I will throw on tomorrow and give the file a try with no guide. Thanks again.

 

[stihl waters]

As mtngun said, "not enough hook" you're not getting underneath your teeth enough, very common for a newbie. You're filing on top focus more on getting down in & you'll see a big diff !!

 

[mtngun]

The rakers that I checked, probably 10-12, were all just below the surface of the gauge,

But your gage is not a progressive gage.

Raker depth needs to increase as a chain wears. Suggest a progressive raker gage like the Carlton File-o-Plate. I believe Husky gages are progressive as well. For now, just file the rakers by eye. Keep taking a little more off the rakers until the chain will bite. You are trying to maintain a 6 degree raker angle as shown in this picture.

A chain grinder takes the guess work out of hook angle. I'm not very good at hand filing, but I believe that a file gauge can affect hook, as well as the diameter of the file.

 

[Fish]

Looks pretty good from what little I can see.

Why are you using "skip" chain? Tell us more about your wood.

 

[stihlrookie]

Looks pretty good from what little I can see.

Why are you using "skip" chain? Tell us more about your wood.

I was under the impression that skip chain allows more chips to be carried out of the wood due to the spacing between cutters translating to faster overall cutting. Plus I'm lazy and its a few less cutters to sharpen. I cut primarily western larch, 15-20 cord a year. I run a 20" ES bar and most of my cutting is in 10-14" wood, western larch is fairly soft but the most sought after firewood in my area.

 

[pro94lt]

1.Practice
2.Vise
3.New File

Their really is a feel to it, like a fiddle or driving a golf ball. Once you have experianced the feel you know what it is your looking for. I also used to dread dulling a new chain... not anymore.

 

[Fish]

I was under the impression that skip chain allows more chips to be carried out of the wood due to the spacing between cutters translating to faster overall cutting. Plus I'm lazy and its a few less cutters to sharpen. I cut primarily western larch, 15-20 cord a year. I run a 20" ES bar and most of my cutting is in 10-14" wood, western larch is fairly soft but the most sought after firewood in my area.

OK then, tell us more about your saw. What model? Bar length?

 

[wolfcoln]

Shops charge an exorbant amount for a task that takes mere minutes when done correctly.

Well, if you the person sharpening the chain is good 10 minutes is about right. The machine we use is about 650.00. Thats not something that every person is going to go and and purchase, though you can get a good one cheaper than that.
If the chain is sharpened wrong, the chain will not cut correctly and it will not last long at all.

I touch up after every use. I also have plenty new or sharpened chains so I can get right back to work if I hit a nail, piece of fence or the dirt. I take my time hand filing and after a bit you can feel the difference.

 

[David (saltas)]

I sharpen better when I put my glasses on

 

[mtngun]

I was under the impression that skip chain allows more chips to be carried out of the wood due to the spacing between cutters translating to faster overall cutting.

It does not cut faster, but allows the saw to rev a little faster, similar to shifting your truck into a lower gear.

Fish, saw shops in the PNW seem to favor skip chain, for whatever reason.

I have nothing against skip, but some of the progressive raker guides may not work correctly with skip chain.

 

[stihlrookie]

OK then, tell us more about your saw. What model? Bar length?

Not sure how that pertains to my original post regarding sharpening but anywho, MS362, came with 25" ES bar, now running 20" ES bar primarily. I went into 3 shops looking for RSC and only RSF or RMC3 to be found. Obvious choice for me.

I don't care if the machine cost 1000.00, around here it is .10-.20 per driver. 10 minutes per chain, up to a hundred bucks an hour being made on that machine. I understand the shop has to buy the machine and pay someone to operate it, but after having 2 shops sharpen chain that then only lasted 2 sharpenings I can't fathom paying to have my chains destroyed any more. If they came back looking real nice and had plenty of meat left for future sharpenings then I could possibly see paying good money but not the case.

 

[django]

Not sure how that pertains to my original post regarding sharpening but anywho, MS362, came with 25" ES bar, now running 20" ES bar primarily. I went into 3 shops looking for RSC and only RSF or RMC3 to be found. Obvious choice for me.

I don't care if the machine cost 1000.00, around here it is .10-.20 per driver. 10 minutes per chain, up to a hundred bucks an hour being made on that machine. I understand the shop has to buy the machine and pay someone to operate it, but after having 2 shops sharpen chain that then only lasted 2 sharpenings I can't fathom paying to have my chains destroyed any more. If they came back looking real nice and had plenty of meat left for future sharpenings then I could possibly see paying good money but not the case.

I concur. I haven't had a "shop" sharpen a chain in 10 years. It's like they look for the shortest/most damaged cutter and then take another 3/32" in addition. I dig that pretty blue color as well. I think they are trying to sell chain. Also, they are business people who know that 90% of the customers don't know the difference, and they er on the side of more rather than less. I bought an el-cheapo Harbor Freight grinder for $29 to true all the leading edges when the chain gets a little out of kilter after several filings, and then file it again to get exactly what I want.. The grinders are fully useable after some tweaking/modifying. They are not good right out of the box.