Hows This Look
- Thread starter MAWoodsman
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Gone fishing
Its too sharp, you have the file too low. It cuts super for about two minutes but dulls equally rapidly.
I sharpen my chains once a year, if i'm not too close to the dirt with it I dont need to sharpen untill next year.
That's 5 cubic meters of firewood on two saws.
I sharpen my chains once a year, if i'm not too close to the dirt with it I dont need to sharpen untill next year.
That's 5 cubic meters of firewood on two saws.
anymanusa
ArboristSite Guru
He's right. Are you sure you used the right size file?
I use a grinder to sharpen chains. When I'm sawing and it gets dull I change to a different saw..
A grinder to me is more consistent and I'm not that great at filing chains anyway..
A grinder to me is more consistent and I'm not that great at filing chains anyway..
What did you use to sharpen that chain ? it looks like it was a grinder not quite set correctly, in some pics the edge of the top plate looks like its been missed.
As others have said, it looks like the file is set too low, and as a result you have lots of hook, ie the end of the tooth is very thin, and whilst it might cut softwood quite well, it wont last, and depending on the rakers and powerhead its attached to, will tend to be grabby and bog the saw easily.
Let us know what type of chain, ie .325 etc and what you used to sharpen it.
here is some stihl .404 chisel chain that I have brought back from improper grinder sharpening using a basic file guide and 5.5mm file, and you can see the new shape of the tooth, the top plate is sharp, and part of the gullet, but the back of the tooth has yet to be touched by the file to correct the shape of it, in future passes of the file, the tooth shape will come back, but not worth taking so much out of the cutting edge of the tooth to re profile in one hit.
This chain has more hook than I would normally use in the hard wood I cut, and I need to fine tune it, but for now, its a starting point, it has less hook than your chain tho.
hope that helps.
see how that is not as pointy, ie has less hook than your chain.
Here is another chain set up for aussie hard woods, and it cuts well, and holds the edge well, very little hook in this.
Carlton semi chisel 3/8 chain, using a husky roller guide with 5.5mm file, its been used, but still sharp.
Other side.
As others have said, it looks like the file is set too low, and as a result you have lots of hook, ie the end of the tooth is very thin, and whilst it might cut softwood quite well, it wont last, and depending on the rakers and powerhead its attached to, will tend to be grabby and bog the saw easily.
Let us know what type of chain, ie .325 etc and what you used to sharpen it.
here is some stihl .404 chisel chain that I have brought back from improper grinder sharpening using a basic file guide and 5.5mm file, and you can see the new shape of the tooth, the top plate is sharp, and part of the gullet, but the back of the tooth has yet to be touched by the file to correct the shape of it, in future passes of the file, the tooth shape will come back, but not worth taking so much out of the cutting edge of the tooth to re profile in one hit.
This chain has more hook than I would normally use in the hard wood I cut, and I need to fine tune it, but for now, its a starting point, it has less hook than your chain tho.
hope that helps.
see how that is not as pointy, ie has less hook than your chain.
Here is another chain set up for aussie hard woods, and it cuts well, and holds the edge well, very little hook in this.
Carlton semi chisel 3/8 chain, using a husky roller guide with 5.5mm file, its been used, but still sharp.
Other side.
MMG
ArboristSite Operative
How it cuts is the true measure of success. If it cuts as aggressively as you need for the wood you are cutting and if it cuts strait then you are good to go. If it does not, then consider some of the direction in the previous replies. Disregard the attempts to make you feel dumb.
Have fun with your quest of improving your skills. Stay with it, reach out when you need it, and you will get better over time.
Have fun with your quest of improving your skills. Stay with it, reach out when you need it, and you will get better over time.
While I agree with MMG, I also agree there is too much hook. That said, not bad. 
Nothing wrong with "getting the gullet" but I think you may have gotten it a bit too much, and I say that at someone who is guilty of doing the same at times.
It's not wrecked, it's not bad, and it will probably cut like a madman at first, but may not hold up (as link and trains said). Looks like you're doin' good with those depth gauges too.
Next time you sharpen just be aware of it and you can recover it. Was that hand file or ground?
I also notice that it takes me a bit to get into the groove of filing (by hand) and so sometimes my first few are kinda wonky until I get the muscle memory going again. When I hand file bad chains, the first few strokes are focused on the gullet and pressing down/back as needed to clear it out, then I switch pressure to upward/back to get the top plate, side and general shape. Touch up filing is usually just a few swipes focused on the top plate and side.
Buckin', Tinman, and Ironhorse all have good sharpening videos. I started out using a cheap grinder because I didn't know what I was doing (not implying anything) but started filing by hand after watching a lot of videos and won't go back to a grinder now.
The only accidental cut I ever got that required stitches was from a chain right off the grinder, so it was plenty sharp, but I could never get the shape I wanted from a grinder, and I found it to be a PITA to have to take the chain off vs just hitting it on the bar. I just cut a finger tip pretty good last week from a hand filed chain so I think I'm close in sharpness.
Nothing wrong with "getting the gullet" but I think you may have gotten it a bit too much, and I say that at someone who is guilty of doing the same at times.It's not wrecked, it's not bad, and it will probably cut like a madman at first, but may not hold up (as link and trains said). Looks like you're doin' good with those depth gauges too.
Next time you sharpen just be aware of it and you can recover it. Was that hand file or ground?
I also notice that it takes me a bit to get into the groove of filing (by hand) and so sometimes my first few are kinda wonky until I get the muscle memory going again. When I hand file bad chains, the first few strokes are focused on the gullet and pressing down/back as needed to clear it out, then I switch pressure to upward/back to get the top plate, side and general shape. Touch up filing is usually just a few swipes focused on the top plate and side.
Buckin', Tinman, and Ironhorse all have good sharpening videos. I started out using a cheap grinder because I didn't know what I was doing (not implying anything) but started filing by hand after watching a lot of videos and won't go back to a grinder now.
The only accidental cut I ever got that required stitches was from a chain right off the grinder, so it was plenty sharp, but I could never get the shape I wanted from a grinder, and I found it to be a PITA to have to take the chain off vs just hitting it on the bar. I just cut a finger tip pretty good last week from a hand filed chain so I think I'm close in sharpness.
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
I'll echo most of the people so far, the file was too deep and the cutter angle too sharp. Textbook cutter angle is 40-50* on round filed, your's is probably in the 30* range if I had to guess. Don't feel bad about any criticism, hand filing is a skill that is humbling to learn.
Colonel428
ArboristSite Operative
Same thing here. I'm much better at taking a dull chain off and putting on a sharp one than I am at hand filing a dull one. My grinder and I have gotten to know each other very well...
And something else: It's a lot better for me to file a short chain than a long one. I can make a short chain cut straight but the longer the chain more likely it will pull one way or the other.
MAWoodsman
ArboristSite Member
Thank you all for the feed back. Im not opposed to grinding, but I wanted to learn hand filing to be able to sharpen out in the field when needed.
This is 18in .325 Oregon Full Chisel Chain. Im using a 3/16 Oregon file with the filing guide attached. The Cutting angle on this chain is 25deg as per the manufacturer suggestions. I like to sharpen every other fill up unless i hit something. I also make sure to check and file the rakers with the Oregon raker gauge. I am cutting mostly through Oak and Maple. About 8-10 cords per year.
Whats the solution for to much hook? Can I use a slightly larger file to remove more of the top plate? Should my cutting angle be 30-40 deg for hardwood?
This is 18in .325 Oregon Full Chisel Chain. Im using a 3/16 Oregon file with the filing guide attached. The Cutting angle on this chain is 25deg as per the manufacturer suggestions. I like to sharpen every other fill up unless i hit something. I also make sure to check and file the rakers with the Oregon raker gauge. I am cutting mostly through Oak and Maple. About 8-10 cords per year.
Whats the solution for to much hook? Can I use a slightly larger file to remove more of the top plate? Should my cutting angle be 30-40 deg for hardwood?
MAWoodsman
ArboristSite Member
I watched Buckin's video on how he sharpens a fresh chain. He started by pushing down into the bar for a few swipes to "train" the chain. This is the same method i used. Im thinking i may need to use the next size up file though if doing it this way?
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
When I say an angle of 40-50 deg, I'm not talking about the top plate angle, but rather the angle of the tooth if looking from the side. 3/16" is the correct file size for .325 chain, you just need to raise the height of the file a tick. I've read some specs having that angle all the way out to 60deg, but that seems rather blunt to me.
As far as top plate angle, I generally stick to 25deg on my round filed chains, regardless of type of wood. I run 15ish degrees on my square chisel chain, but that's a different beast entirely.
Are you pushing down on the file when filing, and bending/ bowing down the file guide, ?
ive seen people do it and when im pretty tired at the end of the day, have done so myself at times.
its just a guide, so work with it, let the file do the cutting, and let the guide place the file to the tooth.
Ive also come across guides that were bent, and at each end of the file, the file was correctly placed, but in the middle, the file was allowed to dip down further into the tooth as the bowed middle part of the guide which was further away from the file was used, really annoying, it gave simmilar results to your pictures.
Or ive come across some of those stamped metal guides that are not stamped correctly, and the the file is held either too high, or too low to the tooth, I had a stihl .325 that was like that, got a new guide, and the tooth shape was completely different.
were giving you feed back to help you along to a better result that you understand.
Let us know what you find, I will occasionally check the file guide with a straight edge to make sure its not bent.
MAWoodsman
ArboristSite Member
You are referring to the angle on the file guide, correct?
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
If you're having trouble with how high up the file should be, you might want to start with something like a Husky roller file guide or a 2 in 1 like the Pferd/Stihl until you get a better feel for it. The roller guide would be best for allowing you to see what you're doing while forcing the file height, they're fairly cheap, and they still allow for some customization of how you're filing. Also nice that it has the flip out depth gauge attached.
I normally free hand file, but I keep a Pferd around for quick hits, especially since it gets the depth gauges at the same time. I did use it quite a bit when I started hand filing to sort of muscle train myself because there's a lot of angles to manage when you're filing.
"He started by pushing down into the bar for a few swipes to "train" the chain. This is the same method i used."
I've been rolling that comment around in my head. There's not really a "do XYZ" every time you file.
How you file is determined by the state of the chain. If the gullet is in a bad way (e.g. ski slope instead of C shaped) then you need to get in there and hog it out a little. If a corner is knocked off, you focus on the top/side. Not trying to be condescending so hopefully I'm not coming across that way.
Buckin' shows a good variety of sharpening methods, but what needs to happen is mandated by the state of each cutter. Sometimes the "why" gets lost in his videos, and that's key to what you're doing. Once you get the basic skill honed, then work on more customization and trying out different things. I like the way a new Oregon chain cuts, but some don't and like to file them to their liking as soon as possible - getting to that level takes time and a lot of cutting/filing. The only time I've filed a new chain was an Archer that had a ski slope grind out of the box, and then I only filed it to fix the gullet.
Long but very informational video about sharpening and how the chain actually cuts. I still go re-watch this sometimes.
Good vid demonstrating the roller guide (ignore the stroke counting nonsense):
I normally free hand file, but I keep a Pferd around for quick hits, especially since it gets the depth gauges at the same time. I did use it quite a bit when I started hand filing to sort of muscle train myself because there's a lot of angles to manage when you're filing.
"He started by pushing down into the bar for a few swipes to "train" the chain. This is the same method i used."
I've been rolling that comment around in my head. There's not really a "do XYZ" every time you file.
How you file is determined by the state of the chain. If the gullet is in a bad way (e.g. ski slope instead of C shaped) then you need to get in there and hog it out a little. If a corner is knocked off, you focus on the top/side. Not trying to be condescending so hopefully I'm not coming across that way.
Buckin' shows a good variety of sharpening methods, but what needs to happen is mandated by the state of each cutter. Sometimes the "why" gets lost in his videos, and that's key to what you're doing. Once you get the basic skill honed, then work on more customization and trying out different things. I like the way a new Oregon chain cuts, but some don't and like to file them to their liking as soon as possible - getting to that level takes time and a lot of cutting/filing. The only time I've filed a new chain was an Archer that had a ski slope grind out of the box, and then I only filed it to fix the gullet.
Long but very informational video about sharpening and how the chain actually cuts. I still go re-watch this sometimes.
Good vid demonstrating the roller guide (ignore the stroke counting nonsense):
The cool thing about chain sharpening is if little to no wood is being cut itl work great and if alot of wood is being cut theres plenty of opurtinity to fine go e skills no matter the method used.
Dont Listen to anyone who goes all year on one sharpening they either are very good and have lots of saws with sharp chains or they cut no wood either way theyre opinion should be discounted with a grain of salt.
Sharpen use repeat
Dont Listen to anyone who goes all year on one sharpening they either are very good and have lots of saws with sharp chains or they cut no wood either way theyre opinion should be discounted with a grain of salt.
Sharpen use repeat
