Humboldt vs. Conventional

[northmanlogging]

yep... think I called it several pages ago....

 

[weimedog]

yep... think I called it several pages ago....

And I called it the very second you started in with this post AND you are infact proving a point sir, You can give absolute expert advice in your area and expertise. But unless you actually internalize and understand other situations you will ALWAYS attempt to jam it into a box u understand. While your advice over laps and is absolute GOLD in some cases. The approach is "self limiting behavior" for many in other places. So take it with a healthy understanding of your limitations. My advice is to GET advice from "local" experts, folks like YOU in the different parts of the country. Or folks like John Adler who study folks like you and make it their business to understand that larger picture.

My advise to you? Quit seeing everything as an attack. Actually invest in yourself and with an open heart and mind go to places LIKE ( not if your pride can't handle it ) GOL and learn their approach. AND it may change from year to year. You may not change what you do but you might learn something and would actually be able to hold an intelligent conversation with folks who have adapted that stuff.

Me? I'm shameless. Like all the industries I've been involved with, knowledge and understanding is success , regardless of the source or if you like or dislike the venue. Pride in fact is death in some places I've been. Then Later Selling and supporting bleeding edge tech stuff over seas required in places where I couldn't understand a thing but the Bronx cheer, a set of skills for survival was to quickly get out of your own "mindset" and damn quick try to learn theirs. Why I understand you way better than you me.

 

[weimedog]

So Humboldt or Conventional. That is the question. Answer? It depends. Sooner or later someone will get it isn't a "East coast/west coast " thing, an arrogant thing to question, any of that crap; its a situation driven decision. And a positive use of a forum like this is for folks to feel FREE to define those situations without being called arrogant, stupid, suites, Swedish posers and all those other things designed to stifle conversation that may hurt the pride of one set of folks or another.

 

[pdqdl]

I'll sleep like a baby tonight.

That's too bad. I feel sorry for you.
I never was around a baby that slept well enough to go all night without screaming about something.

Probably not what you meant, eh?

 

[pdqdl]

Have you guys ever heard of the fight club thread? That's kind of reserved for the P&R squabbles, but this is looking like a real nice addition to the thread.

 

[weimedog]

But the discussion should never be a fight should it? Just a discussion among professionals on when or what technique is used and why. But true, for those who would fight for the fun, perfect opportunity would be this topic in a place like that.

 

[northmanlogging]

That's too bad. I feel sorry for you.
I never was around a baby that slept well enough to go all night without screaming about something.

Probably not what you meant, eh?

Southern comfort, or Black Velvet...
Did I mention I quit drinking at 18... for reasons.

 

[northmanlogging]

Have you guys ever heard of the fight club thread? That's kind of reserved for the P&R squabbles, but this is looking like a real nice addition to the thread.

I mean, you do what you gotta do, I for one am bored with it, so what eves, hard to talk sense to someone that simply doesn't care to be reasoned with. edit, or someone that is deliberately being obstinate and willfully ignorant. Then claiming the opposition is a bully and arrogant...

 

[catbuster]

I do hate the cottonweeds... and I'm pretty sure its mutual...
I was thinking I should try boring the guts on one, see if it helps the SOB's stay on the stump better like it does with the alders, cherries, and birches? Normally I aim to have as much hold wood as possible, but they are brittle bastards so maybe less is more?

Yeah, less is more with a lot of hardwood species. Gut the hinge out, but at least leave solid corners, and send it on over. A lot of guys out here will all but slick stump a tree if it’s a high quality sawlog of cherry or walnut.

Also, if I can add something to the chainsaw handle discussion: I refuse to back bar anything longer than 28” barring under bucking or limbing. It’s just not safe, and there’s no reason to do it if there are better options. It’s very limiting in saw positioning. Thus, the 3/4 wrap solves those problems, and the extra weight of the bigger handle and clutch cover (to keep your hands out of the sprocket) also help balance the bar. I have two saws, the same model, one with a 3/4 wrap running a 32” bar and another with the 1/2 wrap running a 25 or 28” bar, wanna guess which one I reach for most?

 

[Westboastfaller]

So Humboldt or Conventional. That is the question. Answer? It depends. Sooner or later someone will get it isn't a "East coast/west coast " thing, an arrogant thing to question, any of that crap; its a situation driven decision. And a positive use of a forum like this is for folks to feel FREE to define those situations without being called arrogant, stupid, suites, Swedish posers and all those other things designed to stifle conversation that may hurt the pride of one set of folks or another.

That's not an answer. "It depends" I am aware of that. You flirt with the idea that you want to discuss but you haven't bought anything to the table. Can you give us some examples please and then I will gladly add to the conversation. Gather all your knowledge from all your experts that you have heard out and put it up against real word experience from somebody that has cut up and down both sides of the Rockies and coastal mountains, the inlets, the passages, the islands and multiple continents. I have been in Europe 5 yrs tomorrow and haven't used a wrap handle here. Done production and residential tree. Sort bars and 1/2 wrap are great for limbing on decked wood, fine for falling on the flat ground. Great for stumping. Don't say I am closed minded and do not know what's up in east hardwoods.

We have heard your 'noise' thus far so you can open.
I will be more that happy to discuss & share my craft.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

The Humboldt is for men only

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I have no use for the hembolt here only on very steep ground when I dont care where the trees going. The conventional or open face is much more safer and the tree only goes where I want it to.

Wow!

 

[Kodiak Kid]

View attachment 1070916

Thats my stump! I executed a conventiblockbolt face! They work quite well actually! I learnt it on the eastcoastwest!

 

[holeycow]

Dadgummit!

I've run out of popcorn.

 

[holeycow]

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Who told you he is respected by all? If a guy is a good Faller I will say it?
People want to have reality shows or be YouTube's, and you either end up a hero or a zero. I know which end they end up on.

Sorry If the truth hurts you feelers? Question?

Or do you want to keep running off?

Not looking at your stupid video either.

I post cut'n clips on YouTube all the time. What's wrong with that? I don't give two frogs f***'n who watches them! Who doesn't watch them. Who hits that "Iike button" or who doesn't. I post them for entertainment. Now call me a Zero then make me a Hero and hurry. I'm hungry!

 

[Kodiak Kid]

the problem with learning a method that declares THIS IS THE WAY is that it makes people only see solutions that fit in that narrow scope

WHICH HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY GODDAMNED POINT

yet you like so many small minded folks hear. pft that dont werk, and get instantly defensive, like so many east coast blowhards

your arguments are disengenious, and frankly ****ing stupid, does that make me arogant, or am i showing disdain for idiotic single mindeness?

 

[Kodiak Kid]

I guess part of the reason I wasted my time to do this, is this blow up bully type approach to any push back is a mission of mine. I will chase it every time. Part for entertainment, but part as simply a public service so folks who may pass thru here understand at what level these discussions are allowed to fall when folks are so invested in one approach or another, regardless of how they "fit" in the viewers world. It's like all "fads", a grain of truth mixed with BS. An example, abet a little less critical, As much as I enjoy things like a big full wrap handle for cosmetic reasons, a saw configured that way is a hinderance. But so many will tap into the "fad" and build a saw that can actually hurt their ability to function. Same with felling technique. many are driven by the process not the situation. Hence the angst. My mission is to fight that at every turn so folks will learn as many as possible, and understand while one may be preferred infact better in a scenario, another may work better and safer for their scenario. So my advice has been to always study the different ones. As I put in a video a while back, get trained locally first. Operate with that knowledge for a bit, then study the others , as many as possible. Because there may be a nugget in there useful to your system. John Adler's teaching added a lot to mine.

Full wraps a cosmetic thing and a hinderance??? Man! You are most definitely riding the wrong train! You best stick to link 'n' logg 'n with them halfwraps there sweetheart.

 

[weimedog]

That's not an answer. "It depends" I am aware of that. You flirt with the idea that you want to discuss but you haven't bought anything to the table. Can you give us some examples please and then I will gladly add to the conversation. Gather all your knowledge from all your experts that you have heard out and put it up against real word experience from somebody that has cut up and down both sides of the Rockies and coastal mountains, the inlets, the passages, the islands and multiple continents. I have been in Europe 5 yrs tomorrow and haven't used a wrap handle here. Done production and residential tree. Sort bars and 1/2 wrap are great for limbing on decked wood, fine for falling on the flat ground. Great for stumping. Don't say I am closed minded and do not know what's up in east hardwoods.

We have heard your 'noise' thus far so you can open.
I will be more that happy to discuss & share my craft.

That absolutely is an answer. I use the humboldt style pretty much every time the tree is on a hill side. Look at the side view of the stump, will get the most useful amount of saw log that way. But as I've said over and over, it isn't an either or. It depends on the situation. It's not some kind of religion as it seems to be for you, its a tool of which I have an understanding to use when it makes sense.

The other reason I will use a humboldt is with logs that have taps in them. Want a nice straight cut again to maximize the saw log.

Just often other priorities drive me to other ways to put the tree down. So, yet again I understand the approach where it works for me, not stuck on some kind of greater purpose based on god only knows what. So in fact I am the one who has posted a legitimate reason actually for both. Not you. Back in the guts of the popcorn popping I posted how at times building a hinge from the root flare wood makes sense. So with all your "experience" seems like I'm the one who has the band width to actually pick and choose a method that fits. And to be complete, I do that usually at the suggestion of a log buyer. You not me are the single minded person with so far from what I see no understanding of the other approaches. And yet again insults and the typical BS from your conversational approach continues. And yet again I'm the one who is open to conversation and new concepts with out some how being pride hurt because of where it comes. Not you.

 

[Kodiak Kid]

Yeah. That arrogance word gets tossed around a lot, mostly by folks that cannot really understand why you are telling them what they just heard.

I've been saving this meme, mostly 'cause I liked it.
View attachment 1072703

I'm definitely not arrogant! I'm just the best at everything and better than everyone! Yup...