I’m a bit confused about notches

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

What notch do you use in what scenario?
I personally cut a traditional notch most of the time because it’s easiest to me.

I have heard that humboldt notch is better and an openface is also good if you don’t want the hinge to pop loose but I don’t know how many different notches exist and I also don’t know in what scenario you’d use them

 

[jefflovstrom]

Unless you are a logger, I would say use what ever you feel.
Jeff
It was a beautiful day!

 

[Stihlproincky]

What notch do you use in what scenario?
I personally cut a traditional notch most of the time because it’s easiest to me.

I have heard that humboldt notch is better and an openface is also good if you don’t want the hinge to pop loose but I don’t know how many different notches exist and I also don’t know in what scenario you’d use them

We all try the same notch, everyone ends up with a different variation. I use a open face sometimes, a traditional sometimes, all I can say is as long as they're aimed in the right direction, aren't cut to deep and you leave enough hinge it hasn't made a difference for me. Also I try something new on trees that aren't at high risk of hitting something, if I like it I use it. Practice different notches and use what your comfortable with on risky trees. Remember that notch angle affect stump jump, generally don't want your notch to close before the tree hits the ground. Be safe!

 

[Exophysical]

As far as I understand it, the advantage of the undercut is that the notch is on the stump side. Important if the log is going to a mill, as their bucking line will not have to make multiple face cuts to square up the butt.

The advantage of the over cut is that you can leave a shorter stump. On a practical level, its hard for me to imagine a firewood scenario where using an under cut would gain you anything at all... other than style points in certain company. Feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here.

Stihl is 100% right about using whatever you are most comfortable with in any half critical situation. The one thing I would add is that for making a leaner fall at an angle I often cut a very large wedge, up to 2/3rds of the way through. Its a trick I picked up from felling with an axe, and so long as there isnt some other complication it will get the tree to start collapsing in the direction you want it to go before you make your back cut. You need to be pretty carefull to avoid getting pinched, and if the situation also calls for wedging this would probably be a bad strategy.

 

[Stihlproincky]

As far as I understand it, the advantage of the undercut is that the notch is on the stump side. Important if the log is going to a mill, as their bucking line will not have to make multiple face cuts to square up the butt.

The advantage of the over cut is that you can leave a shorter stump. On a practical level, its hard for me to imagine a firewood scenario where using an under cut would gain you anything at all... other than style points if your in the company of pros and/ or wannabes. Feel free to correct me if I'm missing something here.

Stihl is 100% right about using whatever you are most comfortable with in any half critical situation. The one thing I would add is that for making a leaner fall at an angle I often cut a very large wedge, up to 2/3rds of the way through. Its a trick I picked up from felling with an axe, and so long as there isnt some other complication it will get the tree to start collapsing in the direction you want it to go before you make your back cut. You need to be pretty carefull to avoid getting pinched, and if the situation also calls for wedging this would probably be a bad strategy.

, forgot about the saw log vs firewood thing. We cut both but mainly firewood. Also your notch should never exceed 2/3 unless possibly in a extreme situation, IMO. And yes, remember not to cut too deep a wedge on trees to be wedged over (ask me how I know). Another thing, ALWAYS put a pull rope on a tree that you even think won't go 100% as planned (again, ask me how I know) confidence comes with time but don't get over confident. We all live and learn, some lose they're life or business because of poor decisions, don't be that guy! Also be careful to not commit to more than your capable of, (again ask how I know) Heck all of us know

 

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

We all try the same notch, everyone ends up with a different variation. I use a open face sometimes, a traditional sometimes, all I can say is as long as they're aimed in the right direction, aren't cut to deep and you leave enough hinge it hasn't made a difference for me. Also I try something new on trees that aren't at high risk of hitting something, if I like it I use it. Practice different notches and use what your comfortable with on risky trees. Remember that notch angle affect stump jump, generally don't want your notch to close before the tree hits the ground. Be safe!

A while back I had a scenario where I did want the notch to close, here is what happened:
I had to drop a tree a little over 13 meters high, the tree had to be dropped through the canopy of some other trees. In this scenario I wanted to have directional control for as long as possible because it had to go between both trees and away from a house but if the hinge would not pop loose my fear was that it might have gotten stuck in the canopies of the other trees. The tree was aimed to fall a bit into the one tree’s canopy (because this was a canopy with very thin branches so it could not get stuck behind strong branches) and then my plan was to have the hinge pop loose so it could roll out of that canopy underneath the second tree’s canopy onto the ground. This did end up working somehow perfectly with the tree perfectly landing where I wanted it and not getting stuck.

I guess I could have gotten away with the tree staying connected all the way but I did first of all do less damage to the smaller tree by having it roll out of the canopy instead of breaking a lot of branches and secondly I was afraid it might get stuck.

As a beginner I don’t have a lot of previous experience to go off of when making decisions so I have to make somewhat educated guesses when doing stuff like that, anyway my point is that you are indeed right by saying “GENERALLY you don’t want your notch to close before the tree hits the ground” I do like the scenarios where I can let a tree pop of its hinge, it somehow makes it look more dramatic lol

 

[Stihlproincky]

A while back I had a scenario where I did want the notch to close, here is what happened:
I had to drop a tree a little over 13 meters high, the tree had to be dropped through the canopy of some other trees. In this scenario I wanted to have directional control for as long as possible because it had to go between both trees and away from a house but if the hinge would not pop loose my fear was that it might have gotten stuck in the canopies of the other trees. The tree was aimed to fall a bit into the one tree’s canopy (because this was a canopy with very thin branches so it could not get stuck behind strong branches) and then my plan was to have the hinge pop loose so it could roll out of that canopy underneath the second tree’s canopy onto the ground. This did end up working somehow perfectly with the tree perfectly landing where I wanted it and not getting stuck.

I guess I could have gotten away with the tree staying connected all the way but I did first of all do less damage to the smaller tree by having it roll out of the canopy instead of breaking a lot of branches and secondly I was afraid it might get stuck.

As a beginner I don’t have a lot of previous experience to go off of when making decisions so I have to make somewhat educated guesses when doing stuff like that, anyway my point is that you are indeed right by saying “GENERALLY you don’t want your notch to close before the tree hits the ground” I do like the scenarios where I can let a tree pop of its hinge, it somehow makes it look more dramatic lol

Ever try to jump a tree over a fence right next to it? That's a scenario you would want it to close and jump off the stump.

 

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

, forgot about the saw log vs firewood thing. We cut both but mainly firewood. Also your notch should never exceed 2/3 unless possibly in a extreme situation, IMO. And yes, remember not to cut too deep a wedge on trees to be wedged over (ask me how I know). Another thing, ALWAYS put a pull rope on a tree that you even think won't go 100% as planned (again, ask me how I know) confidence comes with time but don't get over confident. We all live and learn, some lose they're life or business because of poor decisions, don't be that guy! Also be careful to not commit to more than your capable of, (again ask how I know) Heck all of us know

All 3 things you said “ask me how I know” after are all things I learned the hard way in 1 day, I took on a dead tree and just me and my chainsaw where there, no other tools. I cut the notch to deep and thus when making the back cut the tree sat back on my saw, I did not have a rope in the tree so I had to ask the people who wanted me to take the tree down for one. Once I got the rope in (what was a very small rope that I had to go around multiple times with to make it strong enough) I started pulling and hanging on it with my entire weight. Then the tree fell… IN MY DIRECTION! My stupid brain forgot to think about the fact that that tree would fall in the direction where it got pulled to. Luckily I got out of the way with a few scratches in my neck.

So what did I learn:
Cutting your notch to deep is stupid
Having no rope in the tree is stupid
And lastly
Taking on a job that is about your skill level isn’t just stupid but will get you killed if you’re unlucky

That 1 day did make me a whole lot more careful and knowledgeable, I never made those mistakes again because nearly getting crushed by a tree stays in the back of my head at every job I go now

 

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

Ever try to jump a tree over a fence right next to it? That's a scenario you would want it to close and jump off the stump.

I try to stay away from fences, that’s a bit outside my skill level and with me being a clumsy trouble magnet I will hit the fence probably lol

 

[Stihlproincky]

I do like the scenarios where I can let a tree pop of its hinge, it somehow makes it look more dramatic lol

Yep, that's fun. This is also what I meant by playing with your notch and hinge on non critical trees, try steering them around a little, drop em hard vs easing them down.

 

[Stihlproincky]

All 3 things you said “ask me how I know” after are all things I learned the hard way in 1 day, I took on a dead tree and just me and my chainsaw where there, no other tools. I cut the notch to deep and thus when making the back cut the tree sat back on my saw, I did not have a rope in the tree so I had to ask the people who wanted me to take the tree down for one. Once I got the rope in (what was a very small rope that I had to go around multiple times with to make it strong enough) I started pulling and hanging on it with my entire weight. Then the tree fell… IN MY DIRECTION! My stupid brain forgot to think about the fact that that tree would fall in the direction where it got pulled to. Luckily I got out of the way with a few scratches in my neck.

So what did I learn:
Cutting your notch to deep is stupid
Having no rope in the tree is stupid
And lastly
Taking on a job that is about your skill level isn’t just stupid but will get you killed if you’re unlucky

That 1 day did make me a whole lot more careful and knowledgeable, I never made those mistakes again because nearly getting crushed by a tree stays in the back of my head at every job I go now

I was not trying to imply that anyone is stupid, just some are green to the trade. Gotta live to learn, and make money to support you and you business. School of hard knocks is just that hard, glad you walked away from that with just a scratch. I to have done some really dumb things. Be safe my friend!

 

[Stihlproincky]

I try to stay away from fences, that’s a bit outside my skill level and with me being a clumsy trouble magnet I will hit the fence probably lol

Thats generally why I climb trees, take all the limbs off and block down the spar. I've hit a couple fences, but we can repair fences easily so no biggie, really try to not hit them just in case we got a particular jackass that might try to sue.

 

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

I was not trying to imply that anyone is stupid, just some are green to the trade. Gotta live to learn, and make money to support you and you business. School of hard knocks is just that hard, glad you walked away from that with just a scratch. I to have done some really dumb things. Be safe my friend!

You might have not implied it being stupid but honestly I found it pretty stupid from myself to take on something that I should have said no to. I let the excitement get the better of me.
As an inexperienced guy who then gets asked to drop a reasonably sized tree I felt some kind of feeling that I wanted to prove myself I guess, I didn’t wanna chicken out so I wanted to prove myself I could do it while I knew I shouldn’t have. That honestly wasn’t very smart.

At least I learned and didn’t damage anything

 

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

Thats generally why I climb trees, take all the limbs off and block down the spar. I've hit a couple fences, but we can repair fences easily so no biggie, really try to not hit them just in case we got a particular jackass that might try sue.

I would climb if I could, right now I am working hard to afford climbing gear and then I’ll go on a course to get certified as a climbing arborist. Then I’ll climb whenever needed but now I just can’t

 

[Stihlproincky]

I would climb if I could, right now I am working hard to afford climbing gear and then I’ll go on a course to get certified as a climbing arborist. Then I’ll climb whenever needed but now I just can’t

Yep, my personal setup cost me $4000 so tell me about it

 

[donmakesallthefuelbegone]

Yep, my personal setup cost me $4000 so tell me about it

Right now I’m saving up for a pro saw because the homeowner saws are absolutely hating me by now, after that I’m gonna buy the basic removal kit from sappy supplies and then add on some other things that will make it more usable.
You got any tips or stuff that is an absolute must have?

 

[Stihlproincky]

Right now I’m saving up for a pro saw because the homeowner saws are absolutely hating me by now, after that I’m gonna buy the basic removal kit from sappy supplies and then add on some other things that will make it more usable.
You got any tips or stuff that is an absolute must have?

Yep, can't do it without the saw. mrs rope setup, split tail or mechanical friction hitch, learn the Blake's hitch! Wirecore lanyard, silky saw, throw line and ball which you prolly already have, and duh a helmet, best to have hearing protection too. Dunno what's in that kit, could be good stuff but generally it's very basic stuff that you'll want to replace in a couple years.
Start low and slow, once your comfortable with the function of your gear, climb high and cut small. Learn how to identify rotten, hollow or otherwise compromised trees, if in doubt step back and reassess the situation. Always test your tie in point, and get/train a good groundie.

 

[Stihlproincky]

"The tree climbers companion" and "knots at work" are good books to start with. Also you'll probably need basic rigging gear, rigging ring or block, 1/2" rope, carabiners, webbing slings and a port-a-wrap is a good start.

 

[Exophysical]

"The tree climbers companion" and "knots at work" are good books to start with. Also you'll probably need basic rigging gear, rigging ring or block, 1/2" rope, carabiners, webbing slings and a port-a-wrap is a good start.

Good info, I dont climb, but so many days I wistfully think of how much easyer my life would be if I could.

Hoping to not bore you, but last week I had a bit of a humorous go-round with a big dead alder snag. Probably about a 30" stump and 100' high, leaning bad right over my shed, with a spiraling longitudinal crack running up from the stump. I needed it to fall about 45 degrees off its lean, and land with the top between my house and my shop. I spent a half a day trying to shoot a rope into the upper branches. My plan was to make a big face cut, plunge cut the back, load up the rope and take the final snip. I cut the notch 1/2 way through and the tree was coming over nicely... did not even get the bar plunged the whole way through on the back cut and the tree just let go, likely due to the crack I mentioned.

It landed right where I wanted so no harm, but I sure wasted alot of time, energy, and ingenuity getting that rope up there... for nothing.

 

[Stihlproincky]

Good info, I dont climb, but so many days I wistfully think of how much easyer my life would be if I could.

Hoping to not bore you, but last week I had a bit of a humorous go-round with a big dead alder snag. Probably about a 30" stump and 100' high, leaning bad right over my shed, with a spiraling longitudinal crack running up from the stump. I needed it to fall about 45 degrees off its lean, and land with the top between my house and my shop. I spent a half a day trying to shoot a rope into the upper branches. My plan was to make a big face cut, plunge cut the back, load up the rope and take the final snip. I cut the wedge 1/2 way through and the tree was coming over nicely... did not even get the bar plunged the whole way through on the back cut and the tree just let go, likely due to the crack I mentioned.

It landed right where I wanted so no harm, but I sure wasted alot of time, energy, and ingenuity getting that rope up there... for nothing.

Ive had it happen, that's why we say "better safe than sorry" lots of dead ash in our area that should've been cut 5-10 yrs ago, so it be like that sometimes. Glad it went well for ya, be careful out there!