I want my splitter wedge to move faster, any ideas?

[Stanthewoodman]

Hi I'm new to this site. I have done a pretty thorough look around for some info on here. I have a 27 ton Troy Built with a Honda GCV 160. It's 2 years old. I just bought it. I am not new to this stuff, I have four splitters. I bought it to replace a 2006 25 ton Yard Machine. I notice the 27 is slower than the old 25 I have by about 4 seconds. From what I have seen on this site it looks like my only options are bigger engine and pump or a regenerative circuit. Cost wise a bigger engine and pump doesn't work for me. The regenerative circuit is very elusive. I can't find much info as far as getting what I need. I am not sure I can put one on the machine either. There's a lot of smart folks on this site so I thought I'd see what you had to say. I'm not thinking worn parts yet as it's hardly been broke in. My 25 has hundreds of cords on it and it's still going strong.

Thanks I tried to keep this short any questions don't hesitate. Stan

 

[Mac88]

Welcome to the site. Our hydraulic experts will get you fixed up right away.

 

[sgt7546]

I'm not so sure there is a cheap, or reasonably cheap, way to fix what your asking. I do how ever know that life's to short to be fretting over a couple seconds per cycle.



Sent from my screen to yours.

 

[bayard]

9 seconds

my homemade spliter at full speed will do one cycle in 9 to 10 seconds, at full rpm.i never run at max rpm.i have a honda 11 hp and a 22 gal pump on a 4.5 dia. piston.half speed is plenty fast 95 % of the time..i find that the spec,s above will do every thing i throw at it.k

 

[Patrick62]

them's the best options.

bigger pump, or smaller cylinder. They designed the machine for tonnage, not speed.

regenerative? Okay. I remember a crazy method that involved a valve between the extend AND the return port. I know it sounds nuts, but it will make the cylinder fly! on extend. What you are doing here is using the square inch of the actual ram as your "piston". The extend sq in minus the retract sq in leaves the square inch of the ram itself... not much tonnage, but it will extend rapidly. Retract is the same speed, no way around that one.

Not worth it in my opinion. Either upgrade the pump and hoses, or reduce the size of the ram.

 

[Como]

Put a 4 way wedge on it?

 

[reaperman]

If your looking for speed you may want to sell the splitter you just purchased and buy another, perhaps a super split with a 3 second cycle time. It may sound like a more $$$ than you are looking to spend. But what I have found out over the years is once we purchase something, the first thing we seem to forget is how much money we spent on it to start with. Especially if that purchase is something that we know we will have around for many years to come. And buying quality saves money down the road.

 

[Fronty Owner]

Here's my thoughts
do both have the same sized cylinders on it?
what about hoses size and lengths?

find the volume of the new splitter cylinder on the extend side. time the extend, that will give you a flow rate. does that flow rate match what the pump is supposed to be (are you loosing any across a faulty relief valve?)
Is your engine running at the proper speed? a slow engine will be less flow, but will still produce the same force.
can you mount a gauge on both sides of the cylinder. the less pressure you see on the rod side when your extending, the better.

 

[fearofpavement]

Engine speed is directly related to cycle speed. Is the engine on your new splitter running at the correct rpm?

 

[redheadwoodshed]

You can rig another cylinder as an accumulator. That will make it faster.

 

[turnkey4099]

bigger pump, or smaller cylinder. They designed the machine for tonnage, not speed.

regenerative? Okay. I remember a crazy method that involved a valve between the extend AND the return port. I know it sounds nuts, but it will make the cylinder fly! on extend. What you are doing here is using the square inch of the actual ram as your "piston". The extend sq in minus the retract sq in leaves the square inch of the ram itself... not much tonnage, but it will extend rapidly. Retract is the same speed, no way around that one.

Not worth it in my opinion. Either upgrade the pump and hoses, or reduce the size of the ram.

Since most wood splits long before full extension is reached, the time for fullcycle has little real meaning except for when doing tough stuff. I have the same machine and it keeps me hopping feeding it...again except for doing knots/crotches..or $*28( elm.

Harry K

 

[woodguy105]

I just retract the cylinder as far as needed to fit the next round. If you cut fairly uniform rounds the time saved is amazing. I always laugh when I see videos of hydro splitter vs. other types of splitters and the guy working the hydro lets it go through full cycle and then waits for the wedge or push plate to reach the wood....

 

[chaikwa]

... my only options are bigger engine and pump or a regenerative circuit. Cost wise a bigger engine and pump doesn't work for me. The regenerative circuit is very elusive. I can't find much info as far as getting what I need. I am not sure I can put one on the machine either.

To answer your questions, yes you CAN install a regenerative circuit, but it won't do you a lot of good with out the engine HP to support it. You COULD install a dump valve which probably WOULD lessen at least the retraction time, but for either you'll have to install an additional port on the side of the cylinder that makes the rod extend. And more than likely you'll need to install an additional return port in your hydraulic tank as well. If you can't do this yourself, you're probably going to get into more money than it will be worth.

And a bigger engine and pump aren't going to guaranty any faster times. If the hydraulic cylinders' ports are sized to 1/2" or 3/4", there's only so much fluid that's going to flow thru them in a given period of time no matter how large of a pump you throw on it. Likewise with your valve. If it's a 16gpm valve, a 22gpm pump will accomplish nothing more decreasing the cycle time of the money in your wallet.

Not to be mean, but to get commercial duty cycle times, you need to get a commercial unit. Which will also come with commercial pricing.

 

[oppermancjo]

Since most wood splits long before full extension is reached, the time for fullcycle has little real meaning except for when doing tough stuff. I have the same machine and it keeps me hopping feeding it...again except for doing knots/crotches..or $*28( elm.

Harry K

This is a great point. I was considering making some major mods to my splitter and the more I thought about it, the more I realized it's actually pretty quick already. 90% of what I work on is Ash and it typically pops apart with the wedge only going into the round a few inches. My thought was to reverse the wedge and push plate and make a 4 way wedge. I'm thinking I will just keep it as is.

 

[Como]

Most of my wood is 24" and will pop before the full length. But if you let go before it does most of the stroke then you are left with wood that you have to remove by hand.

I spent an hour yesterday splitting 12". You can pick several of them up at one time and then having one ready to push over helps but I still let the ram go most of the way to clear the area.

A 4 way would really help for the small stuff.

 

[Steve NW WI]

I just retract the cylinder as far as needed to fit the next round. If you cut fairly uniform rounds the time saved is amazing. I always laugh when I see videos of hydro splitter vs. other types of splitters and the guy working the hydro lets it go through full cycle and then waits for the wedge or push plate to reach the wood....

Most of my wood is 24" and will pop before the full length. But if you let go before it does most of the stroke then you are left with wood that you have to remove by hand.

I spent an hour yesterday splitting 12". You can pick several of them up at one time and then having one ready to push over helps but I still let the ram go most of the way to clear the area.

A 4 way would really help for the small stuff.

Like others have mentioned, speed costs money, how fast do you want to go?

When running the short stuff, get some cylinder depth stops to shorten the retract length. Cutting 8" off a 24" stroke will cut your cycle time by a third. This assumes you have a detent valve and aren't holding the valve open on the retract stroke by hand. If you don't have a detent valve, look into one. You can be getting the next block while it's retracting. Longer cycle times don't suck as much when the ram is always moving and not waiting on you.

 

[PB]

Why do you have 4 splitters? If you want to save time and increase production run all 4 at once. Why did you 'upgrade' your 6 year old Yard Machine?

 

[Stanthewoodman]

Thasnks for all the great replies

I have looked at all the responses to my post. I have kind of come to the conclusion that I am reaching for a solution that isn't there for my machine, at least as a simple add on. I don't want to get into an expensive or complicated change over for this machine. As sgt7546 said life is to short to worry over few seconds. but when you put the two machines together the difference is disturbing. I shall make do with what I have unless I hear different.

Can someone explain a collar for height adjustments? I assume its put on the cylinder rod.

PB wondered why I had four splitters. Well I hire out myself and the 25 ton. I advertise on CL to split wood for folks. Tree companies take down the wood and leave the rounds. I get called to split the wood. I use the 25 ton for the work because it has a 40" wheel base without fenders as does the new 27. I need to go through narrow gates all the time. It's light weight and well balanced so its easy to move around. I strip the splitter fenders and side supports off. I cut off the half moons on the plate (lawyer crap). I have two different size plates that fit around the base with neoprene so rounds easily slide on them. By the way I only split vertically. Almost very job has 3 to 5' rounds. Think swivel stool and good knee pads for the big ones, never standing, bending and lifting.

That brings us to why I bought the 27 ton. MTD makes almost all the lower level models at least 5 or 6 brands. I designed a height shutoff for all my splitters to stop for 14', 16" and 18". MTD changed their design 2 years ago. They changed the valve so the handle end now points to the operator instead of to the right. My plan is to change my design so I can use either hand to run the up down valve and still incorporate the height adjustments. 8 hrs straight on the splitter can be tough on the right hand and arm. I just ran into this speed snag but I plan to move on, thanks to you guys.

I have a 33 ton 48" wheel base Troy Built for my wood yard and to occasionally take on the road. I have an old 48" Craftsman 27 ton that is pristine. I let friends use it and I pet it a lot.

 

[sunfish]

If your looking for speed you may want to sell the splitter you just purchased and buy another, perhaps a super split with a 3 second cycle time. It may sound like a more $$$ than you are looking to spend. But what I have found out over the years is once we purchase something, the first thing we seem to forget is how much money we spent on it to start with. Especially if that purchase is something that we know we will have around for many years to come. And buying quality saves money down the road.

That would be way too easy!

I'll never own another hydro, but that's just me.

 

[Fronty Owner]

A regenerative circuit is going to cut down on your ultimate force down to the cross section area of your rod.
I would probably go to a smaller cylinder.