Interested in climbing using ropes instead of spurs.

[ironray]

I have been reading a lot about climbing. Years ago a friend let me borrow his climbing gear (spurs) when I was clearing my lot to build a home. It was interesting and somewhat fun.

One thing I keep hearing about is the damage the spurs do to the tree. Can someone elaborate on that? I have a set of pole climbers now that my brother in law gave me.

I have been looking at using ropes instead but have some questions as a beginner.

1. How do you get the saw up with you? Do you carry it via lanyard or leave on the ground and bring it up with a line?

2. How do you secure yourself when you are ready to cut?

3. Which beginner set do you see as better? The one at <a href="http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail_kit.asp?item=27911&catID=1393">Bailey's</a> or the one at <a href="http://wesspur.com/climbing-kits/basic-rope-climbing-kit.html">Wesspur</a>?

I would like to learn the rope technique. I would also like to get my sons to learn to climb as well - they would be climbing for fun as would I when I am with them.

I don't plan to do any cutting or trimming till I get comfortable with the climbing part first. I would be doing some pruning for a while. I have several widowmakers hanging over the areas where my sons play in the yard. I would tackle those first till I get used to being on a rope before using a chainsaw.

I don't do anything on the spur of the moment. I plan to spend a great deal of time practicing and getting used to being in a tree before I start doing anything serious.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Ray

 

[ddhlakebound]

I have been reading a lot about climbing. Years ago a friend let me borrow his climbing gear (spurs) when I was clearing my lot to build a home. It was interesting and somewhat fun.

One thing I keep hearing about is the damage the spurs do to the tree. Can someone elaborate on that? I have a set of pole climbers now that my brother in law gave me.

I have been looking at using ropes instead but have some questions as a beginner.

1. How do you get the saw up with you? Do you carry it via lanyard or leave on the ground and bring it up with a line?

2. How do you secure yourself when you are ready to cut?

3. Which beginner set do you see as better? The one at <a href="http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail_kit.asp?item=27911&catID=1393">Bailey's</a> or the one at <a href="http://wesspur.com/climbing-kits/basic-rope-climbing-kit.html">Wesspur</a>?

I would like to learn the rope technique. I would also like to get my sons to learn to climb as well - they would be climbing for fun as would I when I am with them.

I don't plan to do any cutting or trimming till I get comfortable with the climbing part first. I would be doing some pruning for a while. I have several widowmakers hanging over the areas where my sons play in the yard. I would tackle those first till I get used to being on a rope before using a chainsaw.

I don't do anything on the spur of the moment. I plan to spend a great deal of time practicing and getting used to being in a tree before I start doing anything serious.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Ray

Anytime you (or nature) wound a tree, with a saw, spikes, or excessive abrasion from ropes, the wound is open to fungal and bacterial pathogens. In most cases trees seal over old spike wounds, but they MUST use energy to (hopefully) limit the decay caused by the wounds, and seal them over. So what that means is that spurs are for removals only.

???'s...

1. Either way. If Im cutting on the way up, it comes up with me. If I'm going up to the tie in, then back down to work, I'll bring the saw up when I get in position for the first cut.

2. TITS. Tie In Twice Stupid. (no offense, its just that tits are better than tit.) Whenever cutting you should be secured with your overhead lifeline, and a backup steelcore or rope lanyard.

3. The 2 kits are really only comparable in price. The wesspur kit has more gear that isn't quite as high quality, but will cover most of your needs with basic gear. The Bailey's kit has a nicer saddle, better rope, bee line i2i instead of blue streak split tail. The wesspur has an extra biner, and the bottom end 3 strand lanyard that you'd need to buy if you got the baileys. You also get to specifically pick the extra gear you add on, which I see as a plus.

Myself, I'd buy the individual pieces I wanted separately, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd take the baileys kit.

I don't plan to do any cutting or trimming till I get comfortable with the climbing part first. I would be doing some pruning for a while. I have several widowmakers hanging over the areas where my sons play in the yard. I would tackle those first till I get used to being on a rope before using a chainsaw.

This part is kinda confusing. What I get out of it is that you're intending to tackle the widowmakers in the yard first til you're used to it. Seems kinda bass ackwards to me. You'd be much better off doing easy low danger climbs til you've got some tree legs. Tackle the widowmakers first, and you might find out why they're named that way.

Be safe (that means it's helpful to know what all could go wrong before you ascend).

 

[ironray]

Anytime you (or nature) wound a tree, with a saw, spikes, or excessive abrasion from ropes, the wound is open to fungal and bacterial pathogens. In most cases trees seal over old spike wounds, but they MUST use energy to (hopefully) limit the decay caused by the wounds, and seal them over. So what that means is that spurs are for removals only.
[/qoute]<P>Okay, that explains that. Thanks.

???'s...

1. Either way. If Im cutting on the way up, it comes up with me. If I'm going up to the tie in, then back down to work, I'll bring the saw up when I get in position for the first cut.



2. TITS. Tie In Twice Stupid. (no offense, its just that tits are better than tit.) Whenever cutting you should be secured with your overhead lifeline, and a backup steelcore or rope lanyard.

3. The 2 kits are really only comparable in price. The wesspur kit has more gear that isn't quite as high quality, but will cover most of your needs with basic gear. The Bailey's kit has a nicer saddle, better rope, bee line i2i instead of blue streak split tail. The wesspur has an extra biner, and the bottom end 3 strand lanyard that you'd need to buy if you got the baileys. You also get to specifically pick the extra gear you add on, which I see as a plus.

Sorry, what is the "bottom end 3 strand lanyard" used for?

Myself, I'd buy the individual pieces I wanted separately, but if I had to choose between the two, I'd take the baileys kit.

The problem is really that I don't know what exactly I'll end up needing. Perhaps I should buy the book first to see?<P>

This part is kinda confusing. What I get out of it is that you're intending to tackle the widowmakers in the yard first til you're used to it. Seems kinda bass ackwards to me. You'd be much better off doing easy low danger climbs til you've got some tree legs. Tackle the widowmakers first, and you might find out why they're named that way.

That's pretty much what I meant. I plan to get used to climbing before I do ANY cutting. I guess the way I wrote it it was confusing.

Be safe (that means it's helpful to know what all could go wrong before you ascend).

Thanks for the helpful reply. I will look at the two sets again with your reply in mind.

Ray

 

[outonalimbts]

The 3 strand bottom ended saftey doesn't come in the kit.

Many people enjoy the comfort of the steel core flip line, it is adjustable at your hip with some sort of mechanical grab usually, they are not cheap devices nor is the wire core flip line.

The 3 strand safety is basically a buck strap, See link for picture, at sherrill . I personally like the buck straps tied with 3 strand Dacron. On my saddle I have two adjustable buck straps- one is 6' in length and the other is 8' in length. I also have a 3 strand 9/16" buck strap that I hand spliced a safety double acting snap into. This safety line is approx 30' long, and assists in short redirects for limb walking or other movement in the trees crown.

http://www.sherrilltree.com/core/media/media.nl?id=11547&c=839638&h=d97bfcda735ab87eb611

As far as "TITS" this isn't an accronym I have seen before but it works- Tie in Twice Stupid", when ever utilizing a chainsaw Regulation states that you must be secured with a second means of safety. At no time should you ever utilize a chainsaw only on rope.

If you are only doing maintenance I wouldn't even suggest climbing spurs, you will end up doing damage to your trees, not to mention the unsightly wounds- Ultimately, if you are going to utilize the equipment to work then you will need a good set of tree spurs, with a decent sized gaff point. I like the 2 3/4 replaceable gaff points. (Tree removals only)

I don't recommend fixed permanent gaffs, as you must replace the entire leg iron if you break a point, and it does happen!

The pole gaffs your brother gave you, let them stay in the basement, unless you are going to work at the electric company. they don't give you enough penetration to be adequate in most trees. (I actually know climbers that swear by them, but you wouldn't catch me in them).

If you have a Vermeer dealer near by that has Sherrill tree product showroom you should drive there and try out some of their saddles, it will be worth the trip- unfortunately the beginner saddles are fairly uncomfortable, I think they want to toughen you up, then convince you to upgrade asap.

Stay away from non locking carabiners they are dangerous for climbing, many people die each year while climbing on these. Get some good quality Steel carabiners for life support, double locking at least, triple acting is best. look at the examples on the ads at the top of the board, there are many choices. I used to climb on Aluminum Petzl HMS carabiners until one broke while I was descending- only 3 foot off the ground, thankfully.

Many climbing devices that are used in rock climbing don't meet the minimum standards for tree work as different forces are at play while climbing trees. Stay away from screw lock carabiners as well, they open at unexpected times, and you could descend to your death!

The best overall solution would be to look for a mentor that can teach you from the ground up- often they will have an extra saddle and gear to learn with. This would be the very best idea. Do your research, buy "On Rope" and Tree Climbers Companion, and study everything, focus on the knots and learn to tie them, commit them to memory.

Good luck, be careful!

 

[EdenT]

Ironray, a better plan for you would be to hire a professional arborist (isa) to remove the widow-makers from the tree's in your yard. Removal of hangers carries a lot of risk is what ddhlakebound is telling you. If you ask nicely or are willing to chuck in a few extra $$$ to cover the time, the arborist will probably be happy to show you all their equipment, explain how it works, and give you a few start up tips.

Don't put spikes in trees you are not going to remove. It can make them unhealthy and dangerous. Climbing in tree's is a lot like scuba diving. You are a guest in a slightly different world than you are used to and your at a disadvantage. What you don't know can kill you. Don't even think of taking a saw up a tree until you are competent at climbing.

Being a tree climbing arborist takes a big commitment of time, money and effort. If the only reason you want to do it is so you can do some yard maintenance it will be cheaper, easier and far far safer to hire a professional.

Get those widow makers seen to by a professional ASAP. I would hate to read about you or a member of your family being hurt or worse by one.

Stay safe. :angel: