Is it illegal....

[Zippy]

A friend here in the UK is training as an arborist and he's just completed his tree climbing/rescue and using a chainsaw in a tree course. (CS39?)

His instructor told him that it's illegal for anyone to use a top handle chainsaw on the ground and for example, said that if I do I can be fined heavily.

I understand that the HSE (Health & Safety Exec) have issued guidance which employers would be expected to meet saying top handles are only for use in trees, but am I really breaking the law if I use one privately?

I tend to use a small olympyk 935 top handle for small jobs as it's light weight and I keep it in the shed (as it's worth almost nothing) so it's always handy. If I've got more wood to cut then I'll dig out my 262xp which I keep locked up as it'll save time overall.

So - am I breaking the law if I cut some small logs (upto 12") on the ground using a top handle saw in the UK?

 

[John R]

If it is, your country has gone to hell as bad as ours here in the USA.

 

[dingeryote]

It ain't illegal here.

It might be for one of your countrymen that has been Lisc. by the crown to own and run one of those evil chainsaws though.

I doubt it is Illegal for joe Homeowner to do the same though.
No real way to enforce such things except fines after the fact, and sooner or later it would apply to unplanned pregnancys and such.
But then I have been amazed at legislative stupidity before...

Good luck with all that.

Stay safe!
Dingeryote

 

[andrethegiant70]

If it is, your country has gone to hell as bad as ours here in the USA.

Shoot, you don't know the half of it. This is still, by a long shot, the land of the free. Over there, it is illegal to be really stupid. Over here, we consider it a competitive sport. :greenchainsaw:

 

[Chris J.]

One of my BILs is in construction in the UK. When he told me the regulations they have to follow for using power tools, including chainsaws, I was stunned.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Shoot, you don't know the half of it. This is still, by a long shot, the land of the free. Over there, it is illegal to be really stupid. Over here, we consider it a competitive sport. :greenchainsaw:

Yeah, and there are two leagues for it:

1. NFL
2. Congress

 

[o8f150]

Shoot, you don't know the half of it. This is still, by a long shot, the land of the free. Over there, it is illegal to be really stupid. Over here, we consider it a competitive sport. :greenchainsaw:

:agree2::agree2:

 

[UK heartwood]

Yes and no!!! I know of a trained arborist that has been suspended from work for trimming branches with a 200T when feeding a chipper.(and will probably be fined by the health and safety)

It is illegal for a dealer to sell a top handle saw to anyone not able to produce their certificates as an arborist.

It is not illegal for a none arborist to own and operate a top handle saw but that doesn't mean they should!!

judging by the prices they command second hand especially on the bay it seems that the more that you tell people they are not allowed one the more people want to own one.

I would always try to inform people that I am selling a saw too that the top handle saw is not the most suitable for firewood and they would have far more control with a rear handle saw and would be less likely to have an accident due to kickback etc. but I know plenty of experienced users that do use them especially for hedge laying.

 

[UK heartwood]

Having just read another post about someone being hurt with one of these I wanted to add that many sellers will insist on advertising TH saws as "one handed" saws which is frowned on even by arborists,that doesn't say they don't operate one handed but I have seen first hand what happens when things go wrong as there is virtually NO control if you get a kick back one handed.

The person I saw do this has a 8 inch scare down his cheek to remind him.

 

[Bob Wright]

I wanted to add that many sellers will insist on advertising TH saws as "one handed" saws which is frowned on even by arborists,that doesn't say they don't operate one handed but I have seen first hand what happens when things go wrong as there is virtually NO control if you get a kick back one handed.

I was talking to a Nelson Tree guy a few weeks ago and he said he could be written up or fired for using any chainsaw one handed...Bob

 

[Zippy]

Decisions....

Thanks for the advice.

It sounds like it's against HSE guidance to use a top handle on the ground but they only have powers over employees/employers not private wood cutters.

I've found myself using the top handle alot for small jobs - I guess I'll have to decide for myself how much of an increased risk I'm taking, and whether it's worth investing in a small/lightweight rear handle saw. (Not sure my better half will be happy about another saw!!!!)

I've been using chainsaws regularly (though not professionally) for about 20 years. I was quite happy with the top handle for small jobs, but you're next lesson is only just round the corner! Not sure what to do yet.

 

[BlueRidgeMark]

Zippy, you might be able to buy the rear handle components for your TH saw. I have both for my small Echo. It's the handle & recoil mechanism only. Got it on eBay for the recoil mechanism, and found I got everything I needed to make mine a TH.

That's a lot cheaper than buying a whole new saw!

 

[Zippy]

good thinking ...

Yeah - I hadn't thought of that. The 935 comes in both rear and top handle form so I could look out for the bits. Probably take a while as they're not that common round here, but definitely worth keeping an eye out for. Tks.

 

[Zombiechopper]

Great Britain is in a sad state of affairs indeed.

 

[rxe]

There is a big difference between what you do "in the workplace" and what you do privately. Nothing illegal about using a top handle privately in whatever way you want. Lots of problems using anything (including a top handle) in the workplace. You need to go on a training course to use (for example) an angle grinder or disk cutter.

eBay circumvents any regulations about selling top handles and the like, so the private user is fine. I have a 192T which is a fine little saw in its place.

but you're next lesson is only just round the corner! Not sure what to do yet

The problem with top handles is the temptation to do something silly with your other hand - like put it in the path of the chain.

 

[SawTroll]

.....
The problem with top handles is the temptation to do something silly with your other hand - like put it in the path of the chain.

The number of cuts in the left left hand and lower arm in the statistics tell me that is quite common.....:jawdrop:

 

[jmethodrose]

It is illegal for a dealer to sell a top handle saw to anyone not able to produce their certificates as an arborist.

as far as I'm aware, it is not illegal to sell a top handle saw to someone without the tickets, I was under the impression that it was just Stihl/Husqvarna policy, along with not selling on the internet. As far as I'm aware, you could walk into a Echo/Makita/Efco/insert name here dealer and buy a top handle, as long as that company doesn't run the same policy.

I could be wrong though!

cheers,
Joe

 

[nmurph]

Yeah, and there are two leagues for it:

1. NFL
2. Congress

err, you forgot slightly more than half the voting population and their immaculate leader, Barack Hussien Obama.

 

[MCW]

The problem with top handles is the temptation to do something silly with your other hand - like put it in the path of the chain.

I agree. Kickback is HIGHLY overrated with top handles. I've mentioned it before but we have 10's of 1000's of acres of almonds getting pruned at round level by 200T's and other top handles every year. I am unaware of any kickback injuries however left forearm injuries have occurred. These saws are also being used by people that I would class as inexperienced, quite often casual labour, and not smart casual labour by any means...
If you get kickback on a top handle when using it in front of your face is that the saw's fault? I think not...

I believe this "use only in the tree" claptrap is coming from certain qualified arborists who like to put tickets on themselves thinking that nobody else has the expertise to use a top handled saw safely. I've read this crap on other forums...

In fact I'll go one step further and say that many are that ignorant they don't even realise there is a whole horticultural industry using these things on the ground on a daily basis and putting far more hours on them than any qualified arborists could in a tree.

 

[caotropheus]

I agree. Kickback is HIGHLY overrated with top handles. I've mentioned it before but we have 10's of 1000's of acres of almonds getting pruned at round level by 200T's and other top handles every year. I am unaware of any kickback injuries however left forearm injuries have occurred. These saws are also being used by people that I would class as inexperienced, quite often casual labour, and not smart casual labour by any means...
If you get kickback on a top handle when using it in front of your face is that the saw's fault? I think not...

:agree2: On what concerns my limited experience, I do not work on almonds but on citrus and the "picture" is the same as MCW referred. If accidents with top handle saws would be so catastrophic as UK authorities want to project it, we would run out of chainsaw operators very soon...