Hmmm
, they build houses out of styrofoam 
, when did that start???I guess ya learn somethin new everyday
Doug
It's a Pacific Northwest thing... you wouldn't understand!
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Hmmm
, they build houses out of styrofoam , when did that start???I guess ya learn somethin new everyday
Doug
WOW! Gone for 15 years and I can immediately jump right into an argument!!
If you think costal conifers are like "styrofoam" then you've not ever put a saw in any costal conifers... Hello again.
If you think costal conifers are like "styrofoam" then you've not ever put a saw in any costal conifers... Hello again.
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"Consistancy of styrofoam" I'm not sure i understand ?
I doubt you have ever put your saw in a three foot Hickory.
How much west coast softwood have you cut?
So, you are thinking the 2 foot short leafs I have on my property are significantly different ?
I have cut a crap load of that Bob Marshall pine with a bow saw and cross cut saw.
Enough to know that bragging about what you are cutting up there is comical.
That depends. I've never cut any coastal timber, but I have cut old growth high elevation Douglas Fir from the interior and its harder than all the coniferous species I cut when I lived in MI. By a good amount too. I would imagine your pine in the south is even softer than the stuff in MI based on its growing season, but I can't say for certain as I have never cut it.
As for The Bob. Alot of that country is lodge pole pine. It's pretty soft stuff. Bow sawing some small camp fire wood hardly constitutes a crap load.
The one difference is that in the west, especially the coastal areas and the wet belt of Idaho and Montana is that the timber is much bigger than what you find in the east on average.
Actually, before the North Fork Sun River burnt all to hell there were quite a few huge Douglas Firs, or at least I think that is what they were. Of course you can't cut a live tree in there, so my bow saw test not much of a test.
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Have you tried a 72" or 96" bar buried in very pitchy Doug Fir? The kind where the chips grt together with the pitch and get under your chain? I guess 60" white oak is pretty small pillow soft wood? Just saying it ain't all pine out here and long bars buried give the was and sawer a workout. Yes pine is soft, I've done milling cuts running a 28" bar buried in it with a 372 easily. Again it ain't all pine. BTW old Doug Fir that sits with its pitch and drys out can be very hard, much more than oak.
I don't know about Douglas Fir being anything close to oak, but I've never cut west coast oak.
Sierra_rider
Piss revver
I agree with most of you on here, softwoods have a variety of hardness...other factors affect the difficulty too.
The ponderosa pine that's local to me is very soft...easy to cut as long as your saw has a decent clutch cover that doesn't load up with chips. It's very pitchy however, and the challenge lies in climbing them and dealing with pitch covered ropes.
I've also cut doug fir out near the coast, it's a totally different story with fir...you'd think it's a hardwood if you didn't know any better. A lot of the stuff I was cutting last year was standing dead from a fire. It was especially hard, all of the pitch/water pulls back down into the stump when the tree dies, makes them very dense.
Not to mention the difficulty in the terrain out near the coast or in the mountains. It's not uncommon to be damn near bench pressing the saw on the offside of a stump and then cutting the tops of weeds on the onside.
The ponderosa pine that's local to me is very soft...easy to cut as long as your saw has a decent clutch cover that doesn't load up with chips. It's very pitchy however, and the challenge lies in climbing them and dealing with pitch covered ropes.
I've also cut doug fir out near the coast, it's a totally different story with fir...you'd think it's a hardwood if you didn't know any better. A lot of the stuff I was cutting last year was standing dead from a fire. It was especially hard, all of the pitch/water pulls back down into the stump when the tree dies, makes them very dense.
Not to mention the difficulty in the terrain out near the coast or in the mountains. It's not uncommon to be damn near bench pressing the saw on the offside of a stump and then cutting the tops of weeds on the onside.
You'd be wrong!! Not only that, I've tipped a poplar that measured 75" at the butt, & I've cut some of the tallest trees east of the Cascades. The foresters measured a poplar that was 163' tall on a strip out west of Robbinsville NC right off of the tail of the dragon. I cut a red oak up there with 2 33s in it before the fork. The small end measured over 39" if I rember correctly. The loggers couldn't handle either of those logs with a JD650.
The old timers didn't run 123cc hi-po kart engines for no reason..
And lastly, let me share with you the one aspect of falling timber that east coast dudes don't have to worry about (unless you're in very short ground with big white pine & old poplar) which is picking a lay. Moat east coasters I've been around simply fall everything down the hill..
You can jump any big oak off of the stump, & it'll hit the deck intact as long as you lay the forks relatively flat. Go ahead and hit a stump or a rock with your average west coast conifer & you just broke the stem. In bigger timber, laying them down properly is priority # one. It's a different world.
That pitch in the butt of dead firs is no joke.
When I logged I rarely worried about things like hitting stumps. I was typically more worried about placing the butt in the correct spot so I could skid it out easiest. Most of what I fell was Sugar Maple, Red Oak and Yellow Birch. None of which split real easy.
I've never cut a Hickory. It doesn't grow where I lived in MI because it was too far north. It did grow on my grandpa's place in mid MI but they where valued for their nuts, so they would never be cut.
Sounds like good work!
I don't know that it is great deal harder than oak. It just that the bark dulls a chain in a very aggravating way.
Hickory has much in contrast to oak. A hinge that an oak will break is twice the size of a hinge that a Hickory will hold onto, & bust. As much as I dislike the practice, Hickory is the one tree that I will buck right off of the stump. You can beat them relentlessly and they won't come apart, so just let em flop.
Not sure I have ever dropped a live hickory, maybe to cook a pig back in the day. The ground was rotten and I had a windstorm blow a big one down behind the house. I gave half of it away to boys selling fire wood and split the other half. Burnt quite a bit of it in a couple of cold snaps. Curious how sparks fly off the bark if you are working late in the evening. Lot of heat in it.
Back to the original post or the start of this anyway is that the Pacific Northwest has changed. I grew up on a military base in the fifties with many service men and women who dominated every thing.
They did not call the police for any thing as they took things into their own hands. One or two folks who were respected told the police department how it would be run and that was that. Any political issue or concern was often discussed and handled at the local bar after a few drinks. Nobody argued much about any thing.
When I used to go to visit my home town friends they all told me how every thing was so liberal with out much representation. Since my closest friends of sixty four years passed it will be unlikely that I will return to my home town again. The point is the Pacific Northwest has changed so so much that it is unrecognizable. There is nothing like seeing cattle drives going into Pendleton Oregon from the late summer to early winter with the Cowboys and Indians getting together for their drinking spell with a few folks being killed during the process. Then when the wheat harvest was completed the farmers would start to take over the bars with their version of drinking.
When I worked for the USFS there were not much in the way of hardwoods but was overwhelmed with Lodgepole Pine and Fir. In many of the the smaller towns they had Maple Oak and quite a bit of Locusts. My first real job was to cut a bunch of Locusts which I did, I really lucked out in that I was able to sell my Locust logs because they were so beautiful which was not common. For burning there is not much that compares to Locust as it is the best I have ever tried. If I can make a trip across the US would love to buy a Hickory log or two for making handles. Decent handles are so difficult to get in California. Thanks
They did not call the police for any thing as they took things into their own hands. One or two folks who were respected told the police department how it would be run and that was that. Any political issue or concern was often discussed and handled at the local bar after a few drinks. Nobody argued much about any thing.
When I used to go to visit my home town friends they all told me how every thing was so liberal with out much representation. Since my closest friends of sixty four years passed it will be unlikely that I will return to my home town again. The point is the Pacific Northwest has changed so so much that it is unrecognizable. There is nothing like seeing cattle drives going into Pendleton Oregon from the late summer to early winter with the Cowboys and Indians getting together for their drinking spell with a few folks being killed during the process. Then when the wheat harvest was completed the farmers would start to take over the bars with their version of drinking.
When I worked for the USFS there were not much in the way of hardwoods but was overwhelmed with Lodgepole Pine and Fir. In many of the the smaller towns they had Maple Oak and quite a bit of Locusts. My first real job was to cut a bunch of Locusts which I did, I really lucked out in that I was able to sell my Locust logs because they were so beautiful which was not common. For burning there is not much that compares to Locust as it is the best I have ever tried. If I can make a trip across the US would love to buy a Hickory log or two for making handles. Decent handles are so difficult to get in California. Thanks
If I had live Hickory on my property I wouldn't cut them. The nuts are delicious.
